CO2 Tables Questions

[ellenhighwater]

Hi everyone,
Apologies if this has been answered before, I honestly have done several searches both here and elsewhere on the internet and found mixed and confusing answers. I am a new freediver having taken several beginner courses. I am now in a rather land-locked location for a few weeks before returning to the ocean. In the meantime I wanted to work on my CO2 tolerance. I've downloaded a nice little app but I've got two questions, can someone please explain to me:
- When it's advised to begin with breath holds at 50% of your max would this be your max after a breathe-up or after normal breathing?
- During the 'rest' intervals should I breathe normally or breathe-up?
Thank you very much for your help guys, this is a great community.

 

[baiyoke]

- Normal
- Normal

Don't think of breathup as anything special.

That's the short answer

 

[ellenhighwater]

Thank you!

 

[whaleshark]

by meaning normal breathing, does that mean same inhale and exhale time?

 

[baiyoke]

Normal breathing means exactly that: How you breathe normally, or how your body would normally breathe if you where doing other stuff... When you relax and don't think of your breathing and let your body do the breathing...

The idea behind CO2 tables is that you get more and more co2 in your body. You don't want to over-breathe since that would wash out CO2 (hyperventilation) - so if doing anything abnormal better to breathe to slow and shallow. However just relaxing and breathing normally is the easiest solution.

IMO breathups is something done mostly for psychological purposes. And doing breathup we allways risk hyperventilation wich is not good in general.

IMO co2 tables starting with 2 minute breaks can be tweeked to start with 1 minute instead to not waste time, and then shorten the breathhold a bit. That way you can keep co2 high much easier.

Just play with time settings - there's no magic - it's all about learning to keep calm during high co2...

 

[whaleshark]

Thanks for your reply❣
However, i do feel easier to hold breath in the last few loops within the co2 table. My constant breath hold within the table is 70sec, initial rest time is 60sec & decrease 10 sec every loop. It is usually the hardest in the first and second loop to breath hold 70secs. But if the purpose of this co2 table is to increase co2 of the body and thus help us better tolerating the co2, so why in the last few loops of the cylce i feel even easier to hold my breath while the co2 level in my body should be the highest?

 

[whaleshark]

May i also know what is IMO breathup? Does breathup mean exhale is double the inhale time?

 

[baiyoke]

The two first breathholds are often hard because the diverespons is strongest at that point. However the last few should also be hard. Try hold 90 seconds instead (whatever makes the last fwe hard). If the first two are too hard you can cheat a little on those, if you'ed like a slow start...

Breathup can be many things. An altered breathing pattern. Mostly it is taught to "get in the zone"/mental state IMO... However there's a big risk of hyperventilation, and it is now commonly adviced to keep at a minimum. However IMO it can also prevent hyperventilation if you have a tendency to increase breathing depth and frequency before dives (unconsciously).

Try look it up using search-function, preferably through google search (breathup + site:deeperblue.com) specificaly.

Also have a look at this sticky thread: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/how-to-start-freediving.64959/

IMO = In My Opinion

 

[whaleshark]

Does anyone hyperventilate a bit during the last few loops of co2 table? Since my urge to breath is strong after breath hold, i find that i hyperventilate a bit after breath hold and rush for the oxygen before another breath hold within 10-15secs (in the last loop of the cycle). Does this behaviour offset the purpose of the co2 training? Thx

 

[baiyoke]

Yes and no.

When you finish a very tough breathhold full of co2 your body will naturally ventilate at a high rate, at least for the first few breaths. That is normal. Just try to relax shortly after, and don't let it be an excuse for continued exagerated ventilation because of "anxiety" before the next hold. Better adjust the breathhold a bit shorter.

Sometimes before I've cheated on the first hold. Or if having a bad day, I've ventilated a little bit extra before the last few. But you should allways try to do the time you have choosen. In general it is better to adjust the table progressively, because otherswise it is too easy to start cheating. The idea behind tables are to keep on through that fixed time despite the pain.

Play with it. If you understand the idea behind the table, you can come up with any kind of table you like, and adjust it. There's no rules, justbasic principles.

The most basic principles behind a co2-tabe I'd say is:
- The body re-oxygenize much faster than it gets a neutral co2-level. So short breaks mean accumulated co2 buildup.
- Doing short holds makes it bearable to withstand very high co2 levels.
- Having a fixed time (and preferably a countdown) makes it more "easy" to withstand the pain until the end.

 

[whaleshark]

Thanks for ur good reply. Im training on the co2 table every night before I sleep. So when do i know im improving and when shall i increase the breath hold time in the co2 table? My personal best is 2m18secs, however this pb was obtained only once time, and i couldnt get a better pb or even a similar one within the recent 2 weeks. It is desparating as i m doing the co2 table every night and hope i can see some improvements with it.

 

[baiyoke]

I can't answer your question in general, but only give a few pointers:

Allthough some people experience huge jumps in time in the beginning, others don't.

14 days are nothing. Think of this like training for a marathon... be very patient.

A co2 table is only one part of this very complex sport/activity.

In general: Don't PUSH in this sport (except in the few seconds when we actually need to push at the end of breathholds). Be smart! co2 tables every night sounds like way too much, allthough some do it. You can burn out easily, and you don't progress then.

Work on different stuff: The mental aspect is everything in apnea.

Adjust co2 table when it is too easy...

I'll advice you to do a course also, because there's a thousand questions that will all be adressed during a course.

 

[Triton1715]

Thanks for ur good reply. Im training on the co2 table every night before I sleep. So when do i know im improving and when shall i increase the breath hold time in the co2 table? My personal best is 2m18secs, however this pb was obtained only once time, and i couldnt get a better pb or even a similar one within the recent 2 weeks. It is desparating as i m doing the co2 table every night and hope i can see some improvements with it.

Personally, I've never done CO2 tables. It's not that I believe them to be ineffective. . I just can't bring myself to find the time for them. However, I think baiyoke is completely right. Once a day sounds like a LOT! I've read nearly every thread in forums 3 times over the past years and I recall, somewhere, there being a discussion about this and the general consensus was that 2-3 times a week was plenty.

I think it is far more important to work on relaxing than anything else. CO2 tables get you used to higher CO2, but time is better spent initially working on creating less CO2 over that same time in the first place (plus, it's arguably safer). I think that you'll find that learning to relax more, better, deeper, etc, will yield faster results than the tables for quite a while.

 

[whaleshark]

I have taken aida 2 free diving course, so what relaxation techniques do u guys practise to improve breath hold time? Since I attent the free diving course, I'm so into it, I wish I can practise something everday to increase my breath hold time. Really seeks suggestings for that!

 

[Triton1715]

There are a number of threads that address, but a quick summary would be the following:

There are numerous techniques used for relaxation that range from meditation, "breathups", to yoga. While I haven't had the chance to try yoga, the most effective for me has been something I learned back in college called the Alexander Relaxation Technique. I've since learned that this technique goes by many different names depending on what activity you are involved in, but the gist is always the same. You lay down on your back in a relaxed and comfortable area. Make sure you're away from distractions like noisy areas, etc. Next you proceed to focus on your toes. Think about them. Are they relaxed? Are the holding any tension you can consciously release? Relax them. Move to you foot. Is it relaxed? Is it holding any tension you can feel and release? Move to your ankles and repeat. Then your calves and knee. Next your thighs.

You continue moving up your body trying to be aware of any tension held in every single muscle in your body. Arms, fingers, stomach, shoulders, neck, face, mouth, eyebrows, scalp, etc. The whole process should actually take around 10-15 minutes to fully relax yourself. You should almost feel like you are melting into whatever surface you're laying on. When we did this in college, it was on a hard wooden stage floor and by the end of it, I actually felt like I had sunk into the floor a few inches. If you repeat this often enough, eventually your body will be able to turn all these things on and off much quicker and relaxing won't take nearly as long.

Finally, you can work on calming your mind. . . try to calm your thoughts. It's often hard to do this as the mind is always racing it seems from one thought to the next so focus on something mundane and simple. . . like the proverbial counting of sheep or try to envision a single candle burning in your mind without letting that single, lone, image and thought be disturbed by anything else.

This is just a bit to get you going, but go through the forums. There's lot in there on relaxing.