Competitive Spearfishing - Ethics or Pathetics??

[scott]

In defense of Scott T.

Not that Scott needs my defense, and I can't speak to his competitive side as I did not see him in that environment, but I do want to share my experience with him:

Scott (unsolicited) e-mailed me invited me to go spearfishing/freediving with him off the coast of Jupiter. I accepted and met him at the dock - after he had gassed up, loaded the boat, put it in the water, etc. He had also invited Erik from these forums in the same manner. Erik and I are not spearos and so Scott made sure he took us to spots where the freediving was good, even if it wasn't the best place for spearfishing (i.e., a close-in wreck that was crowded with others). At the end of the day, we were dropped off at the dock and he had to deal with the boat clean-up, etc. He did not even want to charge me for gas. At my insistence, he finally accepted $10. I got in my car and drove home after a great day of (almost chartered) diving for only $10 and no hassles.

As a further note, Scott knew that I preferred springs over ocean diving (viz, waves, etc.) and so he excitedly called me at home the day before to let me know how good the viz had been and that calm seas were expected.

This post probably wasn't needed but I wanted to add my $0.02 (plus I want another day on Scott's boat - just joking as Scott as already invited me back).

Scott

 

[andrsn]

scott n,

i think it's the spearfishing comps that need the "defense", not scott t. i've also been invited out on his boat but never got the chance to go. i've spoken w/ him many times personally and i know he's really passionate about his sport.

i think the issue should be geared more about how if the lawmakers had any clue as to what goes on during the tournaments, there'd be some pretty big hammers dropped on our sport. i've said this many times, and i don't care if spearfishing is practiced by millions in europe, but if our legislature here in the states wants to start mending up our fisheries, the spearfishing community will be the first to grab their ankles. and i'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. this actually has nothing to do w/ comp spearos, this has to do w/ everyone. it's just that the comp spearos stand out more in the public eye, so they have even more of a responsibility to make sure things don't get out of hand.

but, if i traveled accross the country/world to spearfish in a tourney, why the hell should i give a shit about their fishery, right? :head i just wish we all had better attitudes about this.


andrsn

 

[frogman]

Originally posted by andrsn
[ i've said this many times, and i don't care if spearfishing is practiced by millions in europe, but if our legislature here in the states wants to start mending up our fisheries, the spearfishing community will be the first to grab their ankles. and i'm not pointing fingers at anyone.
andrsn [/B]

Andrsn,

You are pointing fingers to spearfishing in general. I don't understand why we should be divided like this. I agree that we are a very obvious and easy target for any legislator who wants to go around and pretend he is the "champion of the seas and protector of all marine life". We do not account for many votes, we practice something most people consider "strange" and "extreme", we are poorly organized and, as evidenced by this thread, many of us feel bad with the very thing we do: spearing fish. I have said it before and will say it again: If we follow the same rules that every other angler does, we have nothing to be afraid. The fish will be there for everybody. We just have to convince everybody else about it, but first, we have to convince ourselves. I find it hard to believe that a couple of spearos would wreck havoc on a fishery when there are commercial fishermen with longlines and nets catching more in one trip than all of us combined in a whole year! Next time you go to a fancy restaurant and you see "grouper", "snapper" or "sea bass" on the menu, I doubt it was caught by spear. It is really sad to see that we are inviting criticism.

Angelos

 

[andrsn]

angelos,

i meant "pointing fingers at anyone in particular". i went back and changed it. but, then the next sentence read "this actually has nothing to do w/ comp spearos, this has to do w/ everyone."

not sure if you were reiterating what i said or what.

anyways, go talk to scott t himself. he'll tell you how most of us have to work harder at keeping our image "clean" because of a large community that doesn't really follow the rules(actually, had one of them on the forum for a while). scott and i have talked quite a bit about this in the past.

so, of course the finger's being pointed at all of us. i honestly don't think a simple "follow the rules" is going to cut it, though. angelos, i know you haven't been in florida long, so there maybe some things you haven't seen that we have. i've been harrassed at the docks soooooooo many times by the F&W and MP and i had done absolutely nothing wrong. so you're right, "we practice something most people consider strange and extreme". and, like everything, people will oppose anything they don't understand/comprehend. it's human nature. and, in florida, most of your votes are coming from people older than 60 who grew up out of state. :head

back to the finger thing... i'm taking an active role by getting my nose into the politics so that the finger doesn't have to be pointed in our direction. our company, 2james, already has a huge backing and we're using our voice to see what heads we can turn in the legislature.


respectfully,
anderson

 

[Erik]

Hi guys, you may know that I have very little experience spearfishing, and would never enter a fishing contest of any kind.
However, I think that if we are to really be evolved beings, we must respect the desires of others....if people want to compete, then let them do so. Scott, you are obviously passionate about your sport, and I think that that in itself is worth respecting and admiring.
Sven, you are passionate about the preservation of the stock and the ethical hunting issue, which is equally commendable.
I think that you all probably come closer to agreeing than you might want to consider.....does anyone want competitions closed entirely? Does anyone want to be able to kill everything they see? I don't think so....it's a matter of degree, and maybe differences in passions?
I believe we are all reasonable people here, and that sometimes we speak strongly from our driven desires.... possibly alienating others who actually are comrades. Were all guilty of this sometimes.....my comments earlier this year about the sexually driven add at FDUK alienated me from a few people that ordinarily might have been friends, and I think that if I had curbed my passion for the dislike of advertising and misogyny and spoken a little softer, there would still be a few people here that left the forums. I'm not saying that we should not discuss politics, but that maybe walking tall combined with a smaller stick (or speargun) would help to actually get something accomplished here: we don't want recreational spearfishing shut down, and we don't want guys like Scott who love to compete denied their right to hunt in a fair competition.
Scott, if you are reading, then stay with us please....your opinion and passion are important to us all.
Warmly,
Erik Y.

 

[Abriapnea]

Certainly those of us who wish to compete have the right to do so . I doubt if any of us would want to deny them their right to have competitions . Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think the point is that competing spearo's could perhaps try and exert more influence on the organizers to assure quality and quantity of fish taken remains within reasonable limits so as to avoid possible bad press regarding "fish slaughters "
If you know you may only take two fish of a given species you will not indiscriminately spear the first (small) one you see .
In S.A. we have monitors on each boat to prevent spearo's dumping unwanted fish in favour of bigger ones .
Hell , maybe this isn't the optimal solution , I am just trying to find something that will satisfy all concerned .
Seems like the sparks are always flying on the spearing threads ... , c'mon guys we are in a precarious enough position as it is , we need to show a united front or we will be ripped to pieces by ignorant outsiders who understand nothing about the beauty of our sport .
As allways , only my opinion ...

 

[Aquiles]

DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD, THE WITCH IS DEAD!

Wow I can't belive the responses that this thread has brought up. As far as competition is concerned I don't really have a problem with them as long as they are held within reason, the rules are fair and the bag limits of the area are respected. Hell, people are going to fish the area anyway? The problem is that there won't be fish there for a while till the area recovers. For this reason all the locals of that area will suffer. All of this is at mother natures expense. Its not right but hey, I can understand , thats life.....real progress for those of us who are bipedal knuckle draggers.(like me) I love to hunt, I have done it commercially and recreationally and I love them both. I am a hunter gatherer, there is no two buts about it I will always be a hunter, its in the blood.

I have entered one competition and loved the idea. This was a local comp with a very family oriented atmosphere held in a trailer park. The competition was freindly and the fish fry was great; we fed the whole neighborhood! I do believe that the rules should be changed so that the spearos can compete on a level playing field. Comps are fun if they don't tear the goshdarn place apart and, the FOOD goes into our stomachs not the sharks(taxcollectors).

What I can't stand is the basic cheating in the competitions. Yes, people do feed the fish in an area before tourneys and they do spend countless hours scouting areas before the tourney. To say that there is no impact on the area is rediculous. Comp areas look like deserts for a while. With slow reproducing species like the ones found in cold water, like svens area, I can't imagine the recovery time? Luckily mother nature finds her way of bouncing back.

I would participate in other competitions gladly. But I could only compete in small local events. Not cause of a lack of skill but, because of ethics and personality. (mean people suck!) I cannot stand some of the attitudes of the contestants. I can't stand those that constantly talk down to others and always have to come out on top.(even if they have to cheat to win)


As you can tell, Scott has a very competitive personality and it is a very good motivator for his spearfishing; I'm sure that he means well, as Scott N has met him. As for me, I can't say I know the chap outside this forum but; I can say that his records are impressive. I think otherwise for his views on the sport though. To say that if there is no comps that the sport is a recreation and not a real sport? What the hell is the logic in that (ST)? I am not targeting him per se, but am targeting those participants in this sport that have nothing to do but stroke their egos. (life is not always a pissing contest! Chill out people!)


Also while I am here, for those of you non-spearos, for someone to try and plant a seed in your head that competitions are necessary for the survival of the companies that produce the equipment is crazy. (I can't use big words like sven.....) I have more gear than I know what to do with. I'm not a competitor, just like the sport. Hell, I just bought two more guns ! All that I am saying is that our sport of freediving was almost lost in the mid eighties(in the USA). People had stopped freediving with the SCUBA craze. Our sport has bounced back and the companies never vanished. Cressi, spora, mares etc. are still there. I have guns and fins that are as old as me. (26 yrs) ok, maybe 17yrs. I just can't let someone sit there and tell me that if we don't have comps. the spearo economy will fold; that is a load of crap!



DQBN

Aquiles

:hmm

 

[icarus pacific]

Originally posted by sturgeon
The other half (3), thanks to Terry Maas, were spared insult to injury by his kindness of removing the illegal fish prior to them making it to the end of the table where Game and Fish was stationed.
Scott T.

The family I saw getting cited for about $1500 and getting their gear confiscated after getting nabbed with 2 abalone over the limit sure would have appreciated Terry's kindness, but the guy can't be everywhere. :hmm

My point's been made.


sven

 

[icarus pacific]

and one more thing...

PS... I'm now addressing Erik as "Sultan of Sanguine", though the "Guru of Group Hug" has a nice ring to it... :king


sven

 

[Erik]

You know me Sven......I'm an idealist. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, and I know that idealism is the last luxury of youth!
Happy hunting to the hunters, and good diving to all,
Erik Y.

 

[Aquiles]

I think that when people put negative karma they should sign it!:naughty

 

[icarus pacific]

I agree jefe!
People that give negative karma and don't sign it, don't count.


sven

 

[ivan]

karma

hi

What the hell is it other than those blue squares.

cheers

 

[Murat]

Some people think that its a sign of respect and glory.......
But i never think that way.It's nothing more than blue squares.

 

[icarus pacific]

Re: karma

Originally posted by ivan
What the hell is it other than those blue squares.

It's a pretty good way to live.


sven

 

[DeepThought]

Sven:
It's a pretty good way to live.

Agreed sven. I even tried once to 'educate' some close friends by teaching them some 'environmental karma' (c).

For me, the problem with karma here is that you need to spread around karma, which is a good advise, but at times, I get stucked when trying to give karma to people like Eric Fattah, Guss & Budha (just some examples from my unreliable "random-access" memory) and so on.

As long as I'm not giving them on the same post, I don't see a real problem with that.

 

[rigdvr]

Back to comps...I participated in one this weekend. The thing is in our tourney(called a rodeo here) the entire Gulf of Mexico was open to hunt! Out of the 40 competitors the only ones I saw all day were in the boat with me. We swept all the categories on my boat except for the 1st place cobia and had a great day of hunting. The gulf was as blue as I had ever seen it...no current and NO MURK! You could see the bottom in 170 ft from the surface. With all the great hunting and clean water the best part of the day was when a 25 ft whale shark joined us in the water! A first for me and unbelievable!

 

[BladeRunner]

WOW that sounds to awesome. I wonder if I'm in water with a viz that clear if my fear of Heights would kick in? LOL Damn my longer hours at my new job!!!

I'm really gunning to go diving with yeah Rig


BladeRunner OUT

 

[Jay Styron]

Congratulations Rig,
What did you enter the whale shark in, the misc. catagoryrofl
Jay

 

[icarus pacific]

...yeah, but I've given up shooting the Whale Sharks. They're too stoopid. rofl

I think we're on a theme here. :t


sven