Contractions start time

[bevan dewar]

Hi. I'm wondering what information can be definitively gleened from the time of first contraction?
Just come back from a day of relitively deep diving, where as gentle as I could breath up (about 5 breaths in the last 2 minutes of breathup), I would finish the dive with sometimes no contractions atall(which is usuall for me).
I assume from this that my blood must be quite acidic today, but I wonder if there could be other factors at work here? Can low low BP also cause delayed contractions? I think I read something to that effect in a post somewhere??
I have always done the same breathup regardless, but now I'm realizing the importance of modifying my breathup according my state that day. I'm just not shure how best to guage this. I saw Eric Fattah write recently of only doing two breaths in the last minute before diving because of high blood acidity, how did you measure or guess your pH Eric?
cheers
bevan

 

[reidfish]

"I'm wondering what information can be definitively gleened from the time of first contraction?"
I find if you are having your first contraction at the right time, it tells you how your dive is going to go.

You see, once my first contraction comes, I pretty much know how long my dive is likely to last, as it's a fixed time from then.
The easiest variable I can change is the time from start to the first contraction- if I am fit and warmed up well it is like 3:30 (this morning doing 5 mins), but on my first breatholds the contractions start at 2 and work up to 3 minutes.

So, my first question is, would I have pushed my first contraction out to 3:30 if I'd stopped my breatholds in an O2 table at the first contraction?

My second question is, does anyone else experience contractions ONLY as a need to swallow?

 

[LittleJohn]

Nice topic you`ve started here mates...Contractions are really important . I`ve always depend on them, and take them as a sign of over-the-limits situation. As a spearo and not an athletic freediver, i always stop my dive with the first 1 or 2 contractions.
Contractions are depth-dependant too. I`ve found that at small depths i get much stronger contractions (and some times painfull)
,and at bigger depths my contractions come out really smooth.

At training conditions, i get my first contraction at about 3.40.min.
I then pull my tongue back, and start doing swallows (1 per 2 sec), so to keep control of my diafragm from contracting too much.
I can keep up doing that for another 1 minute or so, and then i start exhaling to empty my lungs. This gives me another 30 sec, with the advantage that contractions stops...

 

[kingohyes]

Originally posted by flyboy748
For me so far they start at 2'30" +/- 10 sec. regardless of hold time. After that they continue very consistently every 5-8 sec to the end.

Has anyone had contractions, and been able to eliminate them? I have been trying to will them away thinking that less muscular activity the better, but all I can do is hold them off for a few seconds, and a much stronger one follows! I only seem to be able to reduce the strength of them with brain power... Anyone else working on this or have any further info?

Aaron

Hey aaron, that is a very interesting subject you are putting up here. I was able to use my will power to get the contractions away. But it seems like i have forgotten how i did it. I can do the same thing now, but not as good as i used to. Now i can only hold them off a few seconds too. I really need to train on this, because i think the brain has very much to do with breath hold, and much more off course

 

[efattah]

Contractions can be blocked forever by pinching the nose and exhaling extremely gently against the nose. If you still get contractions, then you are not exhaling gently enough. As a test, once you get contractions, don't pinch your nose, and exhale through your nose over a period of 40-60 seconds--you must control the exhale with the diaphragm, NOT THE THROAT--don't close your throat to slow the airflow. That will show you how slow and gently the exhale needs to be. Then, once you've done that, you can pinch your nose and exhale against the pinched nose. However, although this prevents contractions and drops heart rate into the 30's, you will feel so suffocated that all you will ever want is to have a contraction. Also, never do this technique if you have heart problems, or if you are not in good cardio shape, because it puts a TREMENDOUS STRESS on the heart--if you feel pain in your heart while doing it, stop immediately. Actually, maybe it's better not to try it at all.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[pint o Guinness]

Hiya guys,
I'm envious of you guys who can manage to adapt so well to the difficulties of breath-holding...

I've only done a few dives - did a few days freedive training in Dahab in December - LOVED it!!!!
I managed 18m on my very first dive - beginner's luck...

it wasn't supposed to be an attempted "deep dive",
I descended with my eyes closed, and after finning for awhile, I thought to myself "Jaysus, I've been finning for awhile... I wonder where I am?!" -
I opened my eyes, saw the bottom, 2 metres below - it was lovely, and I felt great!
- mind you, then I had my first contraction - & realised I had another 18m before I'd be getting a fresh breath... :duh

I made for the surface as quickly & smoothly as I could,
with Tom supervising from about 10m...

Over the next 2 days, we worked a bit on my descending technique, and I experimented with different weight configurations - doing regular dives to 15m, and then finishing with successive 22s,
and then just some fundives on the reef (the training having been done with a line) while Tom's fundives involved dissappearing down into the blue, and returning from 40m - (with no preparation)

amazing!

Anyway, I'm waffling - again...


my max. breath-hold is 3'10 at the minute,
that includes about 40 secs of contractions...

can you guys recommend some breathe-up patterns,
and do you have any tips...

(on a. what patterns you use, b. how best to figure out the optimal pattern for yerself)

I seem to go from being really comfortable to being bloody uncomfortable in a very short period of time.

Great Forum btw:
a Big thanks to everyone involved....

& also a Quick Hello to Sam - I love yer site,
and that Bear of Yours, he's The Ronaldo of Apneists...

Slán

Itchy O'Where's Me Tank?!

 

[naiad]

I used to get small contractions, about one per second for about the last 1min to 1:30 of a static, but over the last few weeks I have lost them almost completely. During my recent (dry) PB of 5:00 I did not get any, despite the feeling that I was at the limit.

I can't exactly say I miss them!

naiad

 

[pint o Guinness]

HIya Naiad, nice PB!
I'm a long way away from that.
General question for everyone-
How much of overcoming the desire / need to breathe do you put down to willpower, and how much to the breathe up, and again,
does anyone have any recommendations as to how to establish the optimum breathe up patterns...

Thanks!!

Itchy O'Breathless

 

[pat fish]

hi itchy
go to the discussion about body-water-compartments ... there you ll find some answers.

up to now me and my friends were using lots of co2-tables, but the longer the more i get the feeling that the appropriate table for the right mixture in between building up co2 and saturating o2 (i.e. venous saturation) is crucial...

we are still on a trial and error path.
you can stick to the 55% rule of bill and maybe ad another 10% - means if you have your contractions at 3'00''' you can do 4'30'' to 5'00'' max. thats the evidence of the times of the member of my group.

 

[Billextreme]

The divingreflex in Static...

Hi Friends,

The divingreflex in Static...

My PB is 7.15, and my reflex come at 3.36....

If I'm well trained, it's 50/50 for me... the contractions help me to fight much longer. I've done training with hypervent. and have my first contractions at 5.20-5.30 but only fix 7 min with a good fight.

I've done test's without any warm up at all, and done 6.40 with the first contractions at 2.20 (one of the trainings in Hawaii 02')
...this just tell me that you should plan your warm up very well. Because there is good things with warming up, but you should have "plenty" of time between the last warm up and the one were you go for a PB. My recommendation for freedivers that are in good shape, is to do only two warm up's, with 4-5 min between. Just go until you have your first contraction, and add from there 30 to 60 sek then come up with a smile. So if you on your warm up do 2.50 before you first contraction you go max to 3.50. Do the exact same both times, but try do be better on the second warm up. On these warm up's, just try to push away your reflex/contractions as LONG you can, without pushing the #¤%& out of you. You wait to push this far to the LAST one. Between the last warm up and the reeeeally long one, wait/rest 10-15 min. Sometime your ready after 7-8 min. But test this, and see what time that will fit you best.

You have to remember this: It's how you prepare that is the key!!

...so go train, now!

 

[stevevidar]

During my recent (dry) PB of 5:00 I did not get any, despite the feeling that I was at the limit.

Sometimes that happens to me and when it does the pain is worse than having contractions. I have reached 5'00" with small contractions starting around 1'30" and had less pain than when I had no contractions. Sometimes contractions don't start till about 4' but by 4'30" they are so hard its difficult to hold my air in.

All-in-all I would rather have small contraction that start early, because when that happens I am the most comfortable.
Steve

 

[naiad]

I find it much easier to do statics without contractions - for me, the urge to breathe without contractions is not so strong. Before, the thing that would tell me to stop during a static or dynamic was the feeling that I could not hold any more contractions. Now it is more difficult, as I sometimes feel I could go on until.....

naiad

 

[apnoeagal]

All these people who don't get contractions till 5min plus - how long has it taken you to get past the 5min mark?
If you've been trying for a year and haven't got to 4.30 - does this mean your doing something wrong???? (frustrated)

 

[naiad]

I don't think it is usually possible to train yourself not to have contractions, so you are probably not doing anything wrong. I don't know why I don't get them any more, but I haven't specially trained myself not to get them.

Not getting contractions can be an advantage, but it can also be a disadvantage - in the clubs where I train, freedivers who dont get them (including myself) have done some spectacular blackouts and sambas!!! :duh

It makes it harder to know your limits.
naiad

 

[tylerz]

you can stick to the 55% rule of bill and maybe ad another 10% - means if you have your contractions at 3'00''' you can do 4'30'' to 5'00'' max. thats the evidence of the times of the member of my group.

I am not sure if I missed previous information regarding the context here, but if this quote is all the meaning and context necessary, then I am not sure how you came up with this or what concept is behind it?

Depending on your breath-up technique, your blood acidity, your CO2 tolerance, your O2 tolerance, etc... determines how long from the time of first contractions, that you can proceed. I get contractions around 3:40 and can go another 4+ minutes. Others have similar results. So either this a very personal conclusion made in the quote, or I am missing something.

Actually I have found the statement by "Bill" that states the 55% but I think the quote has the wrong numbers. If you get contractions at 3min then you should be able to do a 6-6:30 static is what it looks like was intended.

Not that I agree or disagree with that, but that is a huge difference in projection. I do not think the original statement by Bill was trying to suggest that this concept was necessarily applicable for other people.

 

[Bill]

Right you are Tyler. It was meant as a very specific statement that applied to me, doing O2 tables. When I go for max (dry), the first contraction is in the 40-45% range. Even earlier when doing # 6, 7 and 8 of the CO2 tables.
Aloha
Bill

 

[pim]

I would love to have that 55% rule....especially on my last PB when contractions started on 6:07.....hihi that would have given a great end score.

But I think people explain contractions differently and yes every person is unique and has his own alarm-system. So I'm curious what you all count in as contractions?

convulsions (can't seem to find the correct word for that)
swallowing
fibrating of abdominals
etc
etc

Greetz Pim

 

[couta]

My "contractions" come in the form of swallowing - I have yet to experience what I assume others experience, which is a physical, visible "contraction".

What I have found is that once I start swallowing (the rate of which I can control to a degree) the voluntary action of sucking in my lungs quite sharpley helps me to deal with the CO2 build up. Maybe this mimics what occurs in others when they start to contract, although some appear to argue that it is the contractions themselves which become unberable and force then to bail.

Another intersting thing I have experienced both while apnea walking and doing statics is that towards the end of a long push I get an incredibly strong urge to either walk fast or swim around. Is this a perhaps function of the very high levels of CO2 and resulting discomfort kicking in a survival reflex. Do those who experience involuntary contractions feel the same way or is you r focus on keeping your body still?

 

[naiad]

I also get a strong urge to move around towards the end of a long static/dynamic. I am managing to control it more now, but sometimes it was almost impossible!

naiad

 

[couta]

Naiad have you ever managed to black out or samba while doing a static? I have yet to discover my 02 limit in both statics and walk apnea, as the CO2 monster gets the beter of me each time.

Its possible that the trade off between moving and fighting not to move is such that we might be better off moving, assuming that we are both well within our current 02/blackout limits.

For example, I suspect that had I got up after reaching 6.10 on my max static attempt and starting walking around the room, I would have got close 6.30. It just felt like the right thing to do.

I'm going to experiment with such an approach, will let you know if it works. Maybe we can start a new technique of using our wrists to fin around the pool near the end of a long wet static? Sounds illogical, but worth a try.