contractions

[jome]

Pete's post reminds me of a few things. The difference between a good day and a bad day can indeed be dramatic. I guess no one really knows how to make a 100% sure you're going to have a good day, but the biggest things I've found through experimenting (I don't know the science to back it up, sorry) are:

-Adequite rest. For example on a day or day after of a hard gym workout, contractions are unbearable. I need at least 1-2 days of complete rest to hit a good flow
-Diet in the day of the attempt and a couple of days preceding. Try to eat light in general and there are a few things I avoid like crazy, one being Whey protein (which I do consume in the fitness cycle, but not when trying to hit any sensible apnea). It just kicks up the contractions to double the uncomfort for some reason. Raw onions also has a horrible effect, which is a shame because I really like it
-Hydration, hydration, hydration...Cannot stress it enough - but the trick is, over hydration is also bad
-Maximizing CO2 buffers by doing statics 1-2 days preceding a big one

In addition to that, of course, a solid warmup routine.

For me at least, it's not actually only the diaphragm that is contracting, it's my entire mid-section. I realized this when I had not done statics for a long time but had concentrated on weight training. All of the sudden my contractions were these body buckling seizures. Turns out, my abdominals are simply in better shape.

So if you want to succeed in static, forget the six pack

 

[naiad]

I also find that anything high in protein, or anything with caffeine, has a very bad effect on freediving. This is not a long term effect, so I can eat these things most of the time, unless I am going to do some serious freediving or static training.

I didn't know that weight training can make contractions worse. Maybe static is the only sport where being lazy pays off!

Lucia

 

[SEDATE]

i remember past, i always bored and remember cons suffered me ...till the night while watching a comic(3 months ago), the following day while holding my breath i get first con 4:05 and start smiling in me cos the comic came into my brain and i followed to hold my breath at 5:00 -5:30 not suffered at all but laughing stoped me!
i said to my self i can use this reflex(similing reflex) as a trigger and i can create a new way i got one mirror and always gave and attantion as laughing without opening my mouth

give and effect on my face , give and effect on my eyes , give an effect on my lips , i fixed on this 3 point but now i improved day by day and following weeks to 6 point, now 10
added like my hairs and my cheeks and the point indian puts a red mark( i don not know how to say in english)...etc,
anyway shortly it is a trick i know but worked on me perfectly ..

i use very soft warm up and following a a deep breath and start holding directly , only do max holds ... never do HV , cos ' i belive it will ruin my puzzle already coded my DNA and i never want to give a chance to it

shortly...
not thinking anything but awaiting back of the wall for the first constartion when i feel it i fell laughing my lips and i put my first card on the table i can easly say that it makes me happy when i get my first constraction , and awaiting second and i know i have already cards rest , by one by i use them if i finish all cards i have i imagine the last will be more stronger than before's and one card not enough to win it and start using all cards all together in my hand and puting all of them on the table ,,after 6:30 things changing and i fell myself in a very deep dark hole and start thinking i will never return back ..when i get this feeling i open my eyes and i am finishing my breath holding...my pb's was 7:02 but my aim is to find new way and to touch 10' barier ..i work on it and trying to find new technics and new aproaching ways , i would be happy to know or read this kind of stupid things created by you, too -cheers!
ps:my english is bla bla , sorry!

 

[laminar]

Contractions: "Contractions" are muscular contractions of the diaphragm - one idea is that when you blood becomes acidic because of 02/CO2 exchange this stimulates the urge to breathe so that you can expell CO2 and replenish your body with O2. So a contraction is actually your diaphragm rising up and pulling down. If your mouth was open, you would breathe! How they are experienced seems to vary by simple physiology, your training level, your fitness level, and the kind of breath hold you are doing. Some getting small rapid fire fluttering 1-2 a second. Others can get a contractions every 5-10 seconds. In my opinion, the more natural buffers you have in your blood (CO2 tolerance), the more gentle and spaced apart contractions can be (in general).

Protein: One theory to explain why statics are so hard is that most protein is acidic, meaning it breaks down and produces lactic acid in your body. If you blood and body are slightly acidic after a protein meal, the accumulation of CO2 in your blood (CO3-) with increase the acidity of your blood, which is already acidic. In short, contractions will come a lot sooner and feel stronger.

Exercise: Same sort of idea. If your exercise was intense it will have created lots of waste products that need to be eliminated. If your workout was catabolic, ie.. meaning that proteins in your body were consumed during the workout, then your blood will be extra acidic in the same mechanism described above. A catabolic exercise is usually one that lasts over 45 minutes. You start catabolizing your own tissues when you run out of stored sugars and carbohydrates.

So if you want to succeed in static, forget the six pack!

Hmm. Maybe.. (I have a sick pack and contractions are fine for me.) Or else is was a protein heavy diet and a need for a longer recovery following strenuous weight training exercises to return the blood to a proper ph.

Disclaimer: I'm not a sports physiologist, but these are well explored theories on DB. Do a search for "body water" and you'll see what I mean. There is a full exploration of whether eating alkaline forming foods can help statics.

Sedate, your "trick" sounds really interesting. It does help to smile and think positively during statics. I'm not sure what you mean by "cards" though.

 

[jome]

Thanks for the excellent explanations...

Hmm. Maybe.. (I have a sick pack and contractions are fine for me.) Or else is was a protein heavy diet and a need for a longer recovery following strenuous weight training exercises to return the blood to a proper ph.

Well, bad joke as it was, but as always, half a truth hidden in there . But I believe you are right, it had probably more to do with the exercise/recovery and proteins than muscle fittness, although I still believe there is a small component of that too...

The workout I posted before sounds a bit harsh, after reading your post about rest and recovery I would like to append a bit

So as I said it is a very taxing excersise both mentally and physically. It is usually worth it to push for a week or two - try to increase the count/time etc...But, it is essential to ease off too and rest. Also it is essential to realize, there will be regression at some point - you take a few steps back. But don't be discouraged by that.

But remember, it's not hard workouts that develop the body, it is the rebuilding period after it. The hardest workout is useless without adequite rest and nutrition - in fact not only useless but it will only hurt...

Anywho, the nice thing about "contractions training" is that the mental component of it stays with you. So you may take months of static and when you come back to it, it only takes a couple of trials to get back into the game...

 

[laminar]

Anywho, the nice thing about "contractions training" is that the mental component of it stays with you. So you may take months of static and when you come back to it, it only takes a couple of trials to get back into the game...

Yes, that is a very good point. I took off 6 months back in 2002 from all breath holding training. I thought that it would be a long difficult road back to my pb at the time. I tried a breath hold on a whim, no warm-up, and came with 30 seconds of my personal best. My C02 tolerance wasn't that great, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.

I think that especially with apnea training there is value in periodization of training. Apparently, anaerobic sports like speed skating do 4-8 week intense training periods followed by rest and regular training to give the body time to properly adapt. I don't know the specifics about intensity and how they do it, but it is something to think about. Especially, since after a certain point it gets much, much more difficult to see frequent increases in performance. Static progress after the usual get-used-to-it phase can be really complicated and frustrating.

Jome, your point about the essential ingredients of training are great. To reiterate, to see progress, you need:

1. Sufficient intensity: To start out, you should focus on relaxation as a skill and getting to know your body. Later on, you can raise the intensity so that you experience hypoxia and high levels of C02.

2. Rest: I find it really hard to train statics while working full time because the fasting preference and the late night pool hours really mess up my life. So it becomes really easy to overtrain and get exhausted.

3. Nutrition: It's not known what nutrients are especially needed to support apnea training, but if you search DB you can find lots of ideas. Blood nutrients are likely to be super important and anti-oxidants as well. Eat well and alkaline and you should be fine.

I just recently quit my job and am looking forward to practicing apnea during the day and getting sufficient rest and nutrition.

 

[naiad]

In my opinion, when you are relaxed and have developed CO2 buffers aka CO2 tolerance, contractions tend to come on slowly and gently, building to a certain level that can be tolerated.

On bad days, when you are getting sick, are overtired, are not fit, hydrated, high blood pressure, etc... contractions can feel god awful. :duh After years of trying to push through that feeling, I've learned that it's better to rest and try it again another day.

Same with me. If I get sudden strong contractions, something is wrong, so I might as well give up.

I just recently quit my job and am looking forward to practicing apnea during the day and getting sufficient rest and nutrition.

Quitting your job is always a good way to improve apnea ability and general health! rofl

 

[adax]

To monfin_diva: Back to the question of spare air. I think I was already bringing here the comparison with mountaineering, and I hope this fits here again. The most accidents in high mountains (I mean over 7000 or even 8000 m, i.e. 23 000 ft.) happen to people with the oxygen tanks. It is not only the fact that they have to carry them (because they are usually carried by sherpas or guides), but simply because of the fact that these are people that should not BE in the mountains, not speaking about such altitudes! If you are not 120 % sure that you can survive there with your own "body resources" or safely recognise when you should return, DO NOT go there!

And the same is about your "scout approach". Again there is such hiking proverb "if it does not fit in your small backpack, you don't need it", and this is in my opinion also valid for freediving - here I heard other freedivers say "it is not important how much you take down with you, but with how few you can manage". And I think it is not only about O2. So rather dive only 30 m instead of 60 m, but feel OK there just by yourself. Do not try to substitute experience with some weird devices.

This is just my personal philosophy. I know it will not bring me to -100 m in 2 years, but I like it this way.

 

[Flojt]

I can only agre with what Jome say, do the hard stuff that you normaly avoid, and variation is the key to more succes.
He's the one that have helped me alot to achive things I only imagined, and now I have set new goals for my freediving.

Cheers and happy x-mass holidays
Daniel

It's of course highly individual what works for whom, since it is mainly a mental thing and everyone's mind is different. Daniels suggestions are good, I would add one method that took me pretty far at some point.

Instead of 2 watches, use only one, but start it only when you get the first contraction. Then from day to day, try to increase both the time of contractions and the total count - in small increments, like Daniel suggested.

It's a huge mental leap to go from, say 10 to 30, but if you go from 10 to 11 and then 12 the next day...And do this for week or two, you will gradually come to realise there is nothing scary about them.

Not timing the total static time is important, because it helps you not be fixated about the total time. This can ruin your "contraction training", because one day you might get them up to a minute later and be tempted to bail out sooner than your count for the day because you have reached a pb or something silly like that. But since you don't even know what the total time is, you can concentrate on the essentials.

I don't recommend doing only this type of training for very long, because it is mentally (and physiologically) extremely taxing. But bouts of 1-2 weeks in between normal training will probably help you get to new level of mental discipline and help in maintaining control in the end phase of a static, as well as extend the "struggle phase".

Once you've extended your contractions time from for example 1:00 to 2:00 (which is completely possible, even likely), it's pretty easy to extend the total static to a new pb the next time you do a real attempt and the contractions start at the same time as before...

I don't recommend becoming fixated with the tables, or any other method for too long. Usually when progress stops for a long time despite doing a lot of training, it's time to vary and find something new. One develops by working on the areas we are bad at, but it is sometimes tempting to keep doing what we're good at, mainly because, well, it feels so damned nice to be good at something. But if you truly want to develop, you have to swallow your pride and "work on the weakest muscle" - which in this case I would say is tolerating contractions

 

[Lockedin]

hey all.. thanks for the replies to my question about a pony bottle or spare air.

i wouldn't use it like a crutch- just waiting until i couldnt breathe then use it on the way up.

more like i would use it ONLY in cases of extreme emergencies.

i dont know.. anything can happen down there and i think i'd feel more comfortable with that little insurance. i wouldn't rely on it except for extreme emergencies.

Diva,

I can see the concern. (IMHO) The thing to remember is that the moment a freediver "hits the bottle" :friday , they become subject to the laws of Scuba, and will need to ascend properly (10m/min isn't it?). Also, in that situation (panic aside), the diver will most likely being ascending quite rapidly, and need to slow dramatically, before pulling on the reg, to avoid a possibly serious overexpansion injury.

 

[monofin_diva]

Diva,

I can see the concern. (IMHO) The thing to remember is that the moment a freediver "hits the bottle" :friday , they become subject to the laws of Scuba, and will need to ascend properly (10m/min isn't it?). Also, in that situation (panic aside), the diver will most likely being ascending quite rapidly, and need to slow dramatically, before pulling on the reg, to avoid a possibly serious overexpansion injury.

thank you for your reply.

LOL i must admit..haha.. hitting the bottle.. that made me choke on my orange juice a little bit.

you did bring up a good point and when i take the free diving course in may i will bring up those concerns.

i also scuba so i'm aware of the concerns regarding ascending on supplied air.

i was just curious if anyone took a spare bottle down with them just in case.

apparently that's a super taboo subject. although i did ask a couple of my freediving friends and i got mixed results.

some won't ever take it.. others won't do a dive without it.

at least it's good to know i'm not the only one that has ever had that concern.

thank you for your impartial answer.

lol cheers :friday