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Crazy concept? Wood/aluminium laminate...
- Thread starterAgar4Life
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Agar4L, good luck with the project and post some pics as you progress!
Foxfish built me a wood/carbon gun ealier this year and one thing that is particularly good is that the handle/trigger is not at the end, altho the spear fits to the end. This gives me much better manoeuvrability of what is for me a huge gun. Worth thinking about..
Also, maybe be clear what you are trying to acheive before you decide what materials to use - style is sometimes 'everything', in which case do you want to leave some wood showing, how about some pearl inlays like a guitar [or banjo] neck? with some beautiful rosewood showing.. talk with these guys about what materials to use for the finish - 2 pack epoxy, or a varnish, etc...
Foxfish built me a wood/carbon gun ealier this year and one thing that is particularly good is that the handle/trigger is not at the end, altho the spear fits to the end. This gives me much better manoeuvrability of what is for me a huge gun. Worth thinking about..
Also, maybe be clear what you are trying to acheive before you decide what materials to use - style is sometimes 'everything', in which case do you want to leave some wood showing, how about some pearl inlays like a guitar [or banjo] neck? with some beautiful rosewood showing.. talk with these guys about what materials to use for the finish - 2 pack epoxy, or a varnish, etc...
I absolutly agree with whats been said. What are you going to use the gun for? looking nice on your wall or a hunting tool or both? using carbon in not strictly a necessity but trying new things and learning new methods is half the fun for me. As for tensioning a composite while laminating? thats a new one on me. I'm going about things in a slightly different way by using a bag and vacuum pump for the laminating process.
I pretension the carbon fiber (sort of) when I make a CF polespear. When I overlay the CF sleeve, I hang the whole thing from above with a heavy weight on the bottom end. Not so much to "pre-tension" the carbon fiber (like you would steel in concrete), but just to make sure the sleeve is pulled tight, and the fibers are running as much lengthwise as possible, because fiber orientation makes a noticeable difference in stiffness.
@Scallywag - I don't do wallhangers. It would be a real blue-collar workhouse gun. If it's pretty too then that is excellent, but it's gotta work. For example typically I prefer oil finishes to varnish as is easier to give them touch-ups and regular maintenance for then WHEN not IF they get scratched and scuffed.
I have a self-yew longbow handmade by my grandpa from the 1930s that I put back into service. If it's usable... it get's used. It's a shame not to!
@Tin man - I think that's basically what I mean - to one level or another. Making sure there is no room for play in the CF once it is set - the areas of less resistance will cause uneven flex in the finished product.
The next step would be to actually compress the inner core of wood so that it forms a natural resistance on the CF - this would make it more rigid - but you then risk it misshaping itself if it is slightly out of alignment.
For my gun:
I'm nothing if not a bit experimental. But I think I will leave the crazy laminates for another attempt.
I will post more on my project as I make progress - but it is going to be super slow-going as I will only be able to work on it every couple months (great for the curing time!).
We might as well use the thread for more things - any other crazy concepts out there? What have you all been thinking of experimenting with???
I have a self-yew longbow handmade by my grandpa from the 1930s that I put back into service. If it's usable... it get's used. It's a shame not to!
@Tin man - I think that's basically what I mean - to one level or another. Making sure there is no room for play in the CF once it is set - the areas of less resistance will cause uneven flex in the finished product.
The next step would be to actually compress the inner core of wood so that it forms a natural resistance on the CF - this would make it more rigid - but you then risk it misshaping itself if it is slightly out of alignment.
For my gun:
I'm nothing if not a bit experimental. But I think I will leave the crazy laminates for another attempt.
I will post more on my project as I make progress - but it is going to be super slow-going as I will only be able to work on it every couple months (great for the curing time!).
We might as well use the thread for more things - any other crazy concepts out there? What have you all been thinking of experimenting with???
Well there's a cabinet maker who lives just down the road from me so for my next gun after my current build i'm going to try and scrounge some plywood offcuts to have a play with. I just love it when you shape ply and have the different laminations showing. will need some careful sealing though.
@Paddy - I couldn't disagree more.
Well... there is "plywood" and then there is plywood...
Simply put plywood is any laminated wood. A laminated teak gun is technically ply-wood.
I agree - most plywood we buy is utter garbage. Glued poorly and using the worst, cheapest wood.
But the concept is sound - multiple bonded layers (mounted in different grain directions for strength) resulting in a strong, rigid, shrink- and warp-resistant product.
The key is selecting good stuff from the bad.
There are amazing plywoods. If anyone has seen some of that superfancy designer furniture you'll know what I mean. The Swedes here are mad about design so I've seen plenty. These chairs and tables can be scary thin and absolutely rock-solid.
If you get your hands on a blank made carefully out of this stuff, it will probably make the strongest gun you will own.
Sealing it will be a huge pain, and it will probably be quite heavy (i.e. it may sink).
Simply put you have to select the materials like you would select any teak blank.
In this case you have to buy better plywood than your typical builders stuff.
Birch-veneer or tropical plywoods. And it must be glued well - with an adhesive that is not going to delaminate in cold or damp conditions.
Scallywag - I'd love to see what you come up with...
Well... there is "plywood" and then there is plywood...
Simply put plywood is any laminated wood. A laminated teak gun is technically ply-wood.
I agree - most plywood we buy is utter garbage. Glued poorly and using the worst, cheapest wood.
But the concept is sound - multiple bonded layers (mounted in different grain directions for strength) resulting in a strong, rigid, shrink- and warp-resistant product.
The key is selecting good stuff from the bad.
There are amazing plywoods. If anyone has seen some of that superfancy designer furniture you'll know what I mean. The Swedes here are mad about design so I've seen plenty. These chairs and tables can be scary thin and absolutely rock-solid.
If you get your hands on a blank made carefully out of this stuff, it will probably make the strongest gun you will own.
Sealing it will be a huge pain, and it will probably be quite heavy (i.e. it may sink).
Simply put you have to select the materials like you would select any teak blank.
In this case you have to buy better plywood than your typical builders stuff.
Birch-veneer or tropical plywoods. And it must be glued well - with an adhesive that is not going to delaminate in cold or damp conditions.
Scallywag - I'd love to see what you come up with...
In my mind plywood is made from laminates of wood with the grain running in opposing directions.
Anyway I have made some ply guns, using high grade marine ply they worked fine.
More recently I have made a few bits & pieces from multiple laminates with coloured glue just for the fun of the effect...
Anyway I have made some ply guns, using high grade marine ply they worked fine.
More recently I have made a few bits & pieces from multiple laminates with coloured glue just for the fun of the effect...
Agar4Life - you are absolutely right, “there is ‘plywood’ and there is plywood”.
Writing my previous post I’ve had in mind the kind of plywood where you don’t really know what it is made of. Never really thought about using plywood made of teak or any other precious wood, but this may be worth a try.
Foxfish – I’m very impressed, you’ve made an amazing job.
Writing my previous post I’ve had in mind the kind of plywood where you don’t really know what it is made of. Never really thought about using plywood made of teak or any other precious wood, but this may be worth a try.
Foxfish – I’m very impressed, you’ve made an amazing job.
not worth the effort.(the aluminum section)
the gun wont warp or twist if it is made correctly anyway.
putting some carbon fiber over the wood looks great, but is very difficult to apply without imperfections.
stick to a teak laminate- 4 piece vertical is good
a 5 piece t- laminate is better
glue with epoxy, clamp very very tightly.
good luck
foxfish- i think he's a witch. how else do you explain his creations? made a deal with the devil- have you mart?
dont travel in the middle east- lol
btw : poseidensub makes his guns from mahoghany plywood. it has more than 30 laminates, all around 1.5mm thick
i dont know where he got it, but i am searching.........
the gun wont warp or twist if it is made correctly anyway.
putting some carbon fiber over the wood looks great, but is very difficult to apply without imperfections.
stick to a teak laminate- 4 piece vertical is good
a 5 piece t- laminate is better
glue with epoxy, clamp very very tightly.
good luck
foxfish- i think he's a witch. how else do you explain his creations? made a deal with the devil- have you mart?
dont travel in the middle east- lol
btw : poseidensub makes his guns from mahoghany plywood. it has more than 30 laminates, all around 1.5mm thick
i dont know where he got it, but i am searching.........
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There is a major diference with laminating timber for a speargun and how plywood is made. A speargun with multiple laminations has the grain of the timber running the length of the gun, however plywood has thin laminations of timber running at 45% or even 90% to each other and is designed as I understand for a completely different function being stability.
So what you would have in a plywood speargun is timber running the length of the gun and from top to bottom, which in my humble opinion would not offer anywhere near the strength of the traditional process of laminating timber for a speargun.
Consider this...if plywood was any good we would see traditional timber sailing masts built this way...also large manufactured load bearing support beams are also constructed with grain running the length of the beam...don't get me wrong, plywood is an excellent material, but not for making spearguns.
Food for thought..
So what you would have in a plywood speargun is timber running the length of the gun and from top to bottom, which in my humble opinion would not offer anywhere near the strength of the traditional process of laminating timber for a speargun.
Consider this...if plywood was any good we would see traditional timber sailing masts built this way...also large manufactured load bearing support beams are also constructed with grain running the length of the beam...don't get me wrong, plywood is an excellent material, but not for making spearguns.
Food for thought..
Foxfish, just seeing that sleeve on the pneumatic has got me thinking.
can you imagine a similar deign but over a 1pce carbon barrel! rigidity of carbon, the looks of the modern carbon with the natural wood weaving its way around the barrel, it would look spectacular. of course a matching wooden grip would be mandatory.
Merry Christmas
can you imagine a similar deign but over a 1pce carbon barrel! rigidity of carbon, the looks of the modern carbon with the natural wood weaving its way around the barrel, it would look spectacular. of course a matching wooden grip would be mandatory.
Merry Christmas