crimping without a crimper

[ROSKI]

With crimping, you don't need a fancy crimper as a vice does the same, and you can put far more tension on it. Though I will say with rigging Dyneema a bowline does the same. I have never had a bowline come loose (if adequately tied and then a stopper knot for safety) even when going after bigger fish. The bonus with a bowline is that you don't ever have the problem of corrosion.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

With crimping, you don't need a fancy crimper as a vice does the same, and you can put far more tension on it. Though I will say with rigging Dyneema a bowline does the same. I have never had a bowline come loose (if adequately tied and then a stopper knot for safety) even when going after bigger fish. The bonus with a bowline is that you don't ever have the problem of corrosion.

The problem with a vice is that you can apply way too much pressure and damage the line, or not enough pressure. A proper crimping tool has holes of various sizes to match different sizes of crimps. they keep you from applying too much force.

 

[vrokhlenko]

With crimping, you don't need a fancy crimper as a vice does the same, and you can put far more tension on it. Though I will say with rigging Dyneema a bowline does the same. I have never had a bowline come loose (if adequately tied and then a stopper knot for safety) even when going after bigger fish. The bonus with a bowline is that you don't ever have the problem of corrosion.

Well, I normally do not travel with a vice. But you made me thinking - if I can also use it as a float anchor - I might give it a try

 

[subunit]

With crimping, you don't need a fancy crimper as a vice does the same, and you can put far more tension on it. .

....well, as myself has written here before, i do most of my crimpings not with a crimping-tool, but with a side-cutter.
but i would not recommend using a vice. i know some people that simly use a hammer and pound their crimps flat with it.
but their is hardly any control of how to apply the right amount of force, and you might also get sharp edges on the crimps.

 

[ROSKI]

....well, as myself has written here before, i do most of my crimpings not with a crimping-tool, but with a side-cutter.
but i would not recommend using a vice. i know some people that simly use a hammer and pound their crimps flat with it.
but their is hardly any control of how to apply the right amount of force, and you might also get sharp edges on the crimps.

Yes, I will agree that it's not the best and that you don't have a lot of control over your force. Although what I do is only put the middle of the crimp in the jaws so you don't leave sharps edges, although yes if your not careful you can damage your line.

Also to add to Dyneema shooting line splicing is a better option than a knot (or a crimp) as it retains and in most cases adds to the strength of the line.

 

[Mr. X]

Aluminum and stainless are a BIG no-no. Their contact creates a galvanic corrosion process. Aluminum on a nylon mono would be a non-issue. My father once built a gun with an aluminum handle with stainless bolts holding it together. After a couple of seasons he could not unscrew the bolts. You learn the hard way!

Stainless steel? Galvanic action? Not when using nylon monofilament (or kevlar/spectra for that matter)! Even heavy duty RA railguns come equipped with monofilament (300lb+ Mako mono last I looked).

As for stainless steel spears, never noticed a problem there either, but I flush & dry my gear and store it in a well ventilated area.

 

[subunit]

Stainless steel? Galvanic action? Not when using nylon monofilament (or kevlar/spectra for that matter)! Even heavy duty RA railguns come equipped with monofilament (300lb+ Mako mono last I looked).

As for stainless steel spears, never noticed a problem there either, but I flush & dry my gear and store it in a well ventilated area.

..thats what rokhlenko said. QOUTE : " Aluminum on a nylon mono would be a non-issue "
i guess the problem of galvanic action will only take place when two metals are involved.
probably even more once saltwater is involved as well.
i am not an expert in physics or chemistry, but sure i can say that whenever aluminium and steel are involved,
the outcome is not good. i have seen aluminium parts just by themselfs are suffering severe corrosion once used in seawater.
i try not to use anything made out of aluminium in seawater again.
with the exeption, sometimes i cant get any copper-crimps, so i have to use aluminium-crimps.

another point is the maintenance that you mentioned. not everyone have the time and options to maintain and store their gears like
you maybe can do. and then the galvanic action/corrosion sure can be a problem.
this is maybe just another bad example of my gear-maintenance , but just to show the possible outcome.
i just pulled out this old stainless-shaft that i rigged about two years ago with stainless cable. the crimp on the shaft is aluminium,
and the one to the swivel is copper or a copper alloy.
the shaft was once used since i crimped it. and this is how it lookes now, after some two years of storage....the aluminium crimp is actually cracking apart....

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Also to add to Dyneema shooting line splicing is a better option than a knot (or a crimp) as it retains and in most cases adds to the strength of the line.

Splicing does work well, but it can only be done with hollow Dyneema, and I'm not willing to use that stuff. A couple of years ago a friend suggested some 1000 pound hollow Dyneema as an alternative to stainless steel cable for tuna, so I rigged a shaft with it. It floated all around me like a spider web and tangled very easily. I felt that if I was lucky enough to shoot a decent sized fish, it might take me down.

The stiff spectra (Aussie line) from Benthic is much easier to handle, but it isn't hollow and can't be spliced.

 

[subunit]

so I rigged a shaft with it. It floated all around me like a spider web and tangled very easily. I felt that if I was lucky enough to shoot a decent sized fish, it might take me down..

....just imaging the situation you are describing makes me laugh, and it sure aint funny.
this type of line that floats all around you and hooking up everywhere it could, driving me mad and it does require specific
movements to untangle and control, that with some age you dont want to do anymore. hate the one when line tangles with your weightbelt at your back....after two shoulder injuries and some arthritis mixing in, no please....

 

[sharkey]

The conversation has gone to the point where I believe people reading, especially new chums, wont know who or what to believe. This is what I like to use for species like dogtooth tuna 50-90 kg range, large GT's around coral, various billfish in blue water etc. No doubt others will say they have "shot one or two" or "have a friend", "have read somewhere", etc. I am just going to say what I do use, nothing is perfect, but this is what gives me the best utility. For Dogtooth tuna I am currently using 500lb "ultra hard" moi moi leader/mono with double copper alloy swages. My second choice would be 400lb Ande mono (this is a true mono). I like the ultra hard stuff because ithe 500lb stuff is as thin as most 400lb mono & as the name says, its ultra hard. Just on my last trip I put a spear into 20 tuna, fish ranging from 20- 90+kg, I have made close to 30 dedicated trips just for this species alone over the last few decades & have been moderatly successful, enough anyway to think I can offer some insight into them. I do not like any of the current dyneema, I keep buying it & I keep trying it & going back to mono. Mono doesnt tangle like dyneema, even that hard coated stuff tangles, mono gives the spear better range & if a tuna takes you into the coral I have seen only very slightly any improvement with dyneema, but not enough to outwiegh the disadvantages. I never use aluminium swages if I have access to copper alloy ones. I can remember when the manufacturers used to advise that you apply "anode" tape around the aluminium ones to stop the corrosion, but it didnt work either. I have seen, not just read about, many failures & lost fish from aluminium swages. I put this down to the aluminium resting against the stainless spear in wet salty conditions (which you get when you go spearfishing). When guns are stowed on the back deck of boats it can be as short as a few days for the aluminium to rot out against large stainless spears. I also will only do my own swaging so I am confident in it & I do use the correct tool, what are they to buy ,about the price of a picture theatre ticket. Also I never use stainless cable & wont dive with anyone who does. I'm sure plenty of experts will disagree, but this is my choice of rigging a spear based upon my experience.

 

[subunit]

Also I never use stainless cable & wont dive with anyone who does. .

..ever tried shooting big fish around oil rigs ? stainless cable does help a lot not loosing the fish and your shaft..

 

[subunit]

The conversation has gone to the point where I believe people reading, especially new chums, wont know who or what to believe. .

..i think by reading the whole thread people will find a lot of good information....i sure do !
so they have the opportunity to extract whatever useful for them and their particular type of spearfishing out of it.
so far i think the bottomline is : use proper line, crimps and a crimping-tool. and most people here vote to not use aluminium-crimps.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

..ever tried shooting big fish around oil rigs ? stainless cable does help a lot not loosing the fish and your shaft..

Stainless steel cable scares me to death and I'm fortunate that I don't get to dive around oil rigs and coral reefs that could cut other lines. But for what its worth, a guy at Benthic told me that he shot a big cobia in the Gulf of Mexico using 1.9 mm stiff Spectra and the fish took the line around a leg of the oil rig and just sawed off barnacles without cutting the line. On the other hand, its not that easy to cut the stuff with a knife either, but I guess its easier than cutting cable.

 

[sharkey]

..ever tried shooting big fish around oil rigs ? stainless cable does help a lot not loosing the fish and your shaft..

I just value safety more than fish I guess. I dont feel I am handicapped much at all by my choice either. Again this is based upon experience. My experience is that the stainless cable not only wraps up a diver, (mono could do this also) it cuts, it cuts through limbs & fingers, etc very efficiently. When you are a few hundred NM from the nearest medical facility even smaller or minor injuries carry much more potential risk. Removing stainless cable is a simple way to remove a serious potential threat with very little reduction in utility.

 

[Mr. X]

If you arent putting a lot of strain on the mono, shooting big fish, using a stainless steel spear, or are replacing it every week or less, it wont matter so much. But if you store your gun with a stainless spear & an aluminium swage resting against the spear near salt & dampness, you are asking for trouble. I did used use Jinkai swages 25 years ago but saw how they became corroded in just a few days on a boat, I changed to copper alloy & will never go back. Also saw & still do, lots of big fish lost because of corroded aluminium swages from folks who wont listen to experience. If you are going to change your mono every week or sooner in marine environments aluminium may be best for you, but its another weakness or risk that can be easily eliminated.

Storing spearguns on a boat could present problems, esp. if you don't/can't flush & dry your gear. However, I am concerned that some of these posts could mislead large numbers of spearos, into unnecessarily fearing a problem that will not effect them. Also, you propose copper as a solution to the problems you experienced, yet other posters have posted of their problems using copper. No silver bullet?

 

[Mr. X]

Stainless steel cable scares me to death ...

Me too. Carry heavy duty stainless steel cable cutters (to match the crimper perhaps)?

 

[Mr. X]

Splicing does work well, but it can only be done with hollow Dyneema, and I'm not willing to use that stuff. ...

Whipping, with fine, strong whipping cord (as suggested long ago by forum member Magpie) might work better in this case. It certainly works well with monofilament in my experience and it looks tidy. I used to mushroom the end of the monofilament before hand and seal the whipping cord with superglue afterwards. I should mention that the fish we spear (in UK waters) are generally considerably smaller than the monsters Bill deals with.

 

[Mr. X]

...
i just pulled out this old stainless-shaft that i rigged about two years ago with stainless cable. the crimp on the shaft is aluminium,
and the one to the swivel is copper or a copper alloy.
the shaft was once used since i crimped it. and this is how it lookes now, after some two years of storage....the aluminium crimp is actually cracking apart....

To avoid galvanic action completely, you would probably need to use the same metal for the crimp (e.g. stainless steel in this case). But the copper verdigris looks more like an attractive patina than a major corrosion problem in this case.

BTW Are those salt crystrals on and below the aluminium crimp?

 

[sharkey]

Storing spearguns on a boat could present problems, esp. if you don't/can't flush & dry your gear. However, I am concerned that some of these posts could mislead large numbers of spearos, into unnecessarily fearing a problem that will not effect them. Also, you propose copper as a solution to the problems you experienced, yet other posters have posted of their problems using copper. No silver bullet?

I'm aware of problems with straight copper also, however copper is still more noble than aluminium. This is why I have been saying "copper alloy", I guess I am too subtle with a lot of stuff I include in posts. I prefer copper tin alloy over copper zinc if there is a choice.

 

[Woody]

I'm aware of problems with straight copper also, however copper is still more noble than aluminium. This is why I have been saying "copper alloy", I guess I am too subtle with a lot of stuff I include in posts. I prefer copper tin alloy over copper zinc if there is a choice.

There is no issue at all with aluminum crimps. As far as holding power long aluminum crimps the type very commonly used in fishing are far superior. First aluminum is soft and more malleable than copper which, is brittle, will crack and cut line. Second, in no way shape or fashion will crimps cause a shaft to rust to the point of damage.