deco chamber questions and poll

[LioKai]

Aloha All!
Earlier today I was approached by two friends of mine, a doctor and a commerical dive businessman, who are working toward bringing a deco chamber here to Kailua-Kona Hawaii. They were asking me about the idea of asking local dive ops to ask their divers for donations to the deco chamber on a per diver per day basis.

My questions to all of you:
1) Would you make a donation if you were diving here?
2) How much of a donation would you think is fair?
3) What would you like to recieve? (reciept, brochure, a chamber tour,please make suggestions.)
4) What else (non medical related here) would you like to see a chamber used? for example should the chamber be open for tours, chamber dives, equiptment testing, etc?
5) Should the chamber be open for medical use too, or dedicated to diving related injuries?

They need suggestions and are open to any and all input. I said that I would post this here on DB and ask your thoughts. If we here at DB are not opposed to the concept of a diver donation plan, then I will create a poll to ask for suggestions on the amount to ask per donation.



A personal view:
Here in Kailua Kona we currently do not have a chamber, but one is (maybe) on the way. We need to get one and here is why. If you get bent here in Kailua Kona on the Island of Hawaii, you currently have only one option for medical treatment.

Here is the timeline and the location of each treatment center:
You get injured (bent) and the boat you are diving on lands at the Kailua Pier at 2pm, an ambulance takes you to the hospital at the lowest elevation of 1500 feet, you wait for the air ambulance to arrive at the airport 20 miles from the hospital, they fly you(preasurized to sea level for your flight) to the island of Oahu (city of Honolulu) 1 hour and 10 minute flight, another ambulance drives you to the hospital with the chamber 11 miles away, you get into the chamber at approx 7pm.

I know this time line for a fact, my wife was bent two years ago and I was with her the entire time.

Here comes the best part:
You get out of the chamber 4-8 hours later and are released from the hospital... to go where?? If you do not have any friends or family living on Oahu then you will need to get a hotel for three days due to the restrictions of flying after your chamber treatment. Then you get to purchase a one-way ticket back to Kona where all of your stuff has been sitting in your unused hotel room.

DAN covers almost every expense of this ordeal, but that is not the point. The point is way back at the beginning of this monologue... the 5 hours from onset of injury to climbing into the chamber, and the hospital at elevation while waiting for the air ambulance.

All of this being said, what are your thoughts about this? All input is good input. Please share any and all thoughts, not only about the per diver per day donation, but all aspects of the chamber.

Thank you all for your time and attention.
Matthew J D'Avella

 

[Jon]

Depending upon where I was diving I've paid $1 a dive or $3 a day for chamber fees.

This was tacked onto the charter boat fee and was listed seperately on my bill.

I have never needed a chamber but had no problem supporting the local ones when I did. I think that most scuba divers wouldn't question a $1-2$ a day chamber fee attached to their bill.


Just my $0.02

Jon

 

[londonsean69]

In Sharm-el-Sheikh (Egyptian Red Sea) there is a voluntary donation of $1 per day per diver, and just about everyone puts it in.

I too have not needed the pot, but as I have a week there starting tomorrow, its nice to know that if things go pear shaped then there is a well maintained and modern chamber about 10 mins from the harbour.

Chamber dives are an excellent idea, I have done one and being at 50m and seeing a can of coke go flat, then fizzy again as you ascend is just weird.

Tous are a good idea as well, I believe that PADI actually have a distinctive speciality in Recompression Chamber Awareness.

Hope that helps, I am sure that if you got the charter captains to put up some professional looking signs about the chamber, then most REAL divers wouldn't mind $1 per day, I certainly pay it when the option is there.

 

[LioKai]

Thank you for the response, londonsean69. The road to a chamber in Kona appears to be longer than I first thought. You gave me something else to think about with the PADI specialty idea, what a great way to safely introduce peoples awareness and function of a chamber.
Mahalo,
Matthew J D'Avella

 

[tom yerian]

As a diver, I worked chambers as a Tech. a couple bucks tacked on per diver per day is reasonable,as long as it goes to the chamber operations. A busy dive resort area should have not to much trouble making a go of it. Educating your diver clientel will go a long way for making a successful venture. Divers do feel more comfortable when they know there is a chamber available if its needed.

yid..........Capt.Tom Yerian

 

[bdurrett]

I dived in K-K in 2001 with Big Island Divers. I know that they had talked a lot abou tit on the boat that the nearest chamber was in Oahu, especially after one particular dive where someone decided to take a tour AFTER doing the deep dive by heading off over the wall at 120'. According to the tables, they should have gone straight into the pot but were luckily OK and had no problems at all....

If I can afford Diving Insurance, I can sure afford $1-$3 a day (depending on the # of dives) to support a local chamber.....

Just MHO.....

 

[Erik]

I don't think you'd have a problem promoting the $/day to the shops and boats. It worked in Cozumel.
I believe you could even pay a few bucks just to have a little tour of the facility....not a bad idea.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[tom yerian]

bdurrett... If the diver did a deep dive already, and cont. on a dive to 120,yes, he was very lucky! That type of dive should have given him T-2.Was he a super body builder? Steroids could have been the thing then that saved his a--. When Jim Bowden did his dive with Sheck (deceased), he had massive injections to help repair the damage when he got hit.DCS is a strange malady. Stay hydrated and stay in good shap, and train responsibly, You should have no problems, and if any arise, they should most likely be less severe. remember, no diving rule is carved in stone. Just keep as many of the odds in your favor, as I previously stated. see ya!

YID: Capt. Tom Yerian

 

[tom yerian]

Besides the flat coke, did you notice, the pitch in your voice go up. You will have a vocal deflection as you go under deeper in a dry chamber. That is caused by the density of the gas ( air) in the chamber. Some neat things can be experienced in a deep chamber ride.

YID Capt. Tom Yerian

 

[reefsavers.org]

Aloha All!
Earlier today I was approached by two friends of mine, a doctor and a commerical dive businessman, who are working toward bringing a deco chamber here to Kailua-Kona Hawaii. They were asking me about the idea of asking local dive ops to ask their divers for donations to the deco chamber on a per diver per day basis.

My questions to all of you:
1) Would you make a donation if you were diving here?
2) How much of a donation would you think is fair?
3) What would you like to recieve? (reciept, brochure, a chamber tour,please make suggestions.)
4) What else (non medical related here) would you like to see a chamber used? for example should the chamber be open for tours, chamber dives, equiptment testing, etc?
5) Should the chamber be open for medical use too, or dedicated to diving related injuries?

They need suggestions and are open to any and all input. I said that I would post this here on DB and ask your thoughts. If we here at DB are not opposed to the concept of a diver donation plan, then I will create a poll to ask for suggestions on the amount to ask per donation.



A personal view:
Here in Kailua Kona we currently do not have a chamber, but one is (maybe) on the way. We need to get one and here is why. If you get bent here in Kailua Kona on the Island of Hawaii, you currently have only one option for medical treatment.

Here is the timeline and the location of each treatment center:
You get injured (bent) and the boat you are diving on lands at the Kailua Pier at 2pm, an ambulance takes you to the hospital at the lowest elevation of 1500 feet, you wait for the air ambulance to arrive at the airport 20 miles from the hospital, they fly you(preasurized to sea level for your flight) to the island of Oahu (city of Honolulu) 1 hour and 10 minute flight, another ambulance drives you to the hospital with the chamber 11 miles away, you get into the chamber at approx 7pm.

I know this time line for a fact, my wife was bent two years ago and I was with her the entire time.

Here comes the best part:
You get out of the chamber 4-8 hours later and are released from the hospital... to go where?? If you do not have any friends or family living on Oahu then you will need to get a hotel for three days due to the restrictions of flying after your chamber treatment. Then you get to purchase a one-way ticket back to Kona where all of your stuff has been sitting in your unused hotel room.

DAN covers almost every expense of this ordeal, but that is not the point. The point is way back at the beginning of this monologue... the 5 hours from onset of injury to climbing into the chamber, and the hospital at elevation while waiting for the air ambulance.

All of this being said, what are your thoughts about this? All input is good input. Please share any and all thoughts, not only about the per diver per day donation, but all aspects of the chamber.

Thank you all for your time and attention.
Matthew J D'Avella

DAN(divers alert network) may be interested in helping raise the capitol you need.

 

[island_sands]

Besides the flat coke, did you notice, the pitch in your voice go up. You will have a vocal deflection as you go under deeper in a dry chamber. That is caused by the density of the gas ( air) in the chamber. Some neat things can be experienced in a deep chamber ride.

YID Capt. Tom Yerian

i never noticed that... but i did notice my constant embarrassment as i kept needing to pee!

 

[Poida]

I know nothing about diving chambers so that qualifies me to put in my two cents worth.

As far as I know DCs are used mainly for medical purposes, here anyway, when divers need to use one it is usually spread all over the newspapers and is very seldom.

As for giving divers more confidence, Tom, more confidence to do what. Ignore dive tables and take a risk because there is a chamber handy.

As I understand it once a diver is placed in one they have to stay there for the complete treatment, should another diver require treatment he will have to wait.

Having said that I don't think anyone would object to paying a levy, however does that mean free treatment if you need it.

Maybe the Doctor that you mentioned should look at the whole spectrum of what a DC can do and make the investment. There may be enough work without even bothering about divers unless you have a lot of careless divers where you are and simply charging for the use if the occassion arises.

But as I said I know bugger all about it really.

 

[LioKai]

Aloha Poida
The confidance factor mentioned earlier is not in relation to a diver being careless or having the oppotunity of being more careless, rather that help is available should (and when) the need arise. Here on the Kona coast of Hawaii, we average about 3-4 million dives a year on paying charters alone, not including beach dives and private dive boats. (This is a loose estimate of actual dive log numbers). Given those numbers in relation to the number of actual DCS cases per year that require the use of a chamber, the percentage is very small. Vertually non-existant. Unless YOU are the one in need.

Many other factors contribute to DCS other than ignorance of dive tables. In fact most DCS cases are well within table limits. Dehydration and poor dietary habits, along with a lack of proper rest due to flying are all major factors too. By dietary habits I mean to say that most people (especially those of us from the U.S.) feel that the four major food groups are sugar, fat, caffeine, and alcohol. There are studies that show a drastic decrease in microbubble formation when as little as 8-12 ounces of water are consumed before a dive.

As for free use of the chamber, nothing is free. The per-diver fee is to keep the chamber running on a day to day basis. My limited research has showed me that most deco chambers are predominatly for medical use and diving related cases are secondary. but this method and direction carries an insurance and maintance cost so prohibitive that we cannot cover it on a private (per diver) level. The entire idea is to make this chamber available to divers first.

The other issue on my local level is that the hospital is at an elevation of about 2000'. We would like to put a chamber on the grounds of the fire dept at less than 100' of elevation.

I hope this helps to clearify some of the issues we are up against.

 

[eracles]

Great idea. I am looking for a used chamber that can be used in the EU. Anyone know of one for sale.