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Differences in bpm during static

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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derelictp

Freediver
Oct 16, 2001
397
63
118
53
If I hold for 30sek my bradycardia is also like yours.

Below 60 in heartrate only occurs when I really push it hard on the bicycle. 1min in this way is for me very very painful because of very high CO2 levels.

Try to really push it hard and I think you are going to get to a lower heartrate. I don't do this alone because of the BO risk when pushing it, don't want to fall of the bycycle. :D

For me the big decrease in heartrate starts after 35-40sek but that's of course individual.

Should be interesting to hear if you experience the same as me when you really push it
 
Last edited:

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
A new apnea exercise I started recently is apnea rowing machine.

I do:
10 seconds breathing
30 seconds apnea
10 seconds breathing
30 seconds apnea

for 10 minutes

Then 10 minutes of regular breathing rowing, to clear out the waste products.

I'm not sure how many watts I'm doing, but the speed meter says 28.X (don't even know the units).

Anyone know the speed units for a rowing machine?

An exercise that Laminar and I used to do was apnea stairmaster -- a brutal version of it. The pattern was this:
Stairmaster 4400PT: Level 8, manual control
(this is the stairmaster that has the handles in a vertical 'U' position so you can't lean on them)
1'00 warm up
then
25 seconds apnea
35 seconds breathing
25 seconds apnea
35 seconds breathing

My personal best was 15 minutes before I could not continue, but Laminar made 19 minutes! If anyone can beat that, on this exact model of stairmaster, I would be extremely impressed!

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

derelictp

Freediver
Oct 16, 2001
397
63
118
53
That must be really painful Eric, the breathing periods seems very short.

Has a BO occured to anybody while doing apnea intervalls while the body is working?

I'm not shure of the risk but the gases (o2/co2) could be out of balance I suppose?!:hmm

Me and my buddies never experienced a BO during this kind of training anyway.
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
Laminar and I would sometimes get tunnel vision and extremely weak, feeling on the edge of B/O, but we never had any B/O or samba during apnea-cardio.

But, I think apnea-cardio is very stressful to the body, and I think 20 minutes of hard apnea-cardio should be the max per day -- maybe 30 minutes if you take TONS of antioxidants and get 10 hours of sleep.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

Fred S.

New Member
Sep 22, 2001
97
19
0
57
anti-oxidants

Eric, can you explain why the body needs anti-oxidants when it has been in a state of hypoxia for a long time? I mean in a state of low oxygen supplies there should be less oxidation :confused:

I can imagine that you need more antioxidants in or after a hyperoxic situation, like doing desaturation dives (scuba) on 100% O2 etc.

Fred S.
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
Going from a state of hypoxia to a state of normoxia creates a huge number of reactive oxygen species (free radicals) such as the superoxide ion (O2-). It is during the reoxygenation phase that these radicals are formed. Further, the speed at which reoxygenation occurs changes the amount of radicals produced. So, if you go from a state of extreme hypoxia to a state of normoxia in a few rapid breaths, you create a huge number of free radicals. Then your body's SOD, Glutathione, Bilirubin, etc., are consumed as they neutralize these radicals. Soon, your body's stores of these native antioxidants is depleted -- suppose this occured after 20 cycles/minutes of hard apnea-cardio. Then, the last 10 minutes/cycles would cause pure damage, since your body would not be able to neutralize the radicals.

Once an SOD or glutathione molecule neutralizes a free radical, it becomes a weak free radical itself, and it needs to be cleaned up by simple antioxidants like vitamin C & E, selenium, etc...

After this type of training, assuming you don't overtrain, your body increases the natural production of SOD, Glutathione, etc..., so then you will have an increased capacity to tolerate longer apnea-cardio sessions.

This is also why athletes are told to supplement their diets with the precursors of glutathione, for example NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine). Glutathione and SOD are both destroyed in the digestive tract if you try to 'eat' them.

SOD also protects you from the symptoms of oxygen toxicity. The main effects of oxygen toxicity are caused by huge concentrations of superoxide radicals (O2-), which are created by the hyperbaric O2 pressure. Once your SOD supply is exhausted from neutralizing all these superoxide ions, the O2- ions take over and you get the symptoms of O2 toxicity. So, having a huge supply of SOD will delay the onset of O2 toxicity symptoms. You can read about this in such books as the 'The Lung at Depth', or even on web pages or PubMed.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
SOD = superoxide dismutase, created by your body for the main purpose of quenching superoxide ions (O2-).


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

zipy

New Member
Nov 19, 2002
129
19
0
40
hi

Eric you never stop to amaze me with your info.
And thanks for the title of the book. Must get a copy.

Zipy
 

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
133
51
A little late

Hi All,
Just today made my wet static session, my partner didn't practice today so I just have my data:
BP=140/90 (Before apnea)
HR=67 before apnea
30"-->56
1'---->50
1'30"->50
2'---->53
2'30"->55
3'---->52
3'30"->60 (also first contraction)
3'45"->61
4'----->60
BP=150/100
That is not conclusive, and what I notice is that my diving bradycardia is less than before (I use to get 40).
Many trials have found that diving bradycardia is more intense in expert freedivers, but it's affected mainly by water temp.
A study with facial immersion in ice water registred HR as low as 5.6 bpm.
A 1988 Lundgren study didn't find a relation between bradycardia and apneic time.
But in other study (Lindholm 1999) they found that in exercise the Oxygen desaturation was slower in the group with most bradycardia. A recent study of Lindholm (2002) shows that bradycardia also helps in reduce the Oxygen comsuption from the lung.
With all this things together I do believe that bradycardia will help in apneic time. That mean (and I can be wrong) that you are able to reduce more your HR and in that way improve your apneic time.
As an example my brother has reached 8'12", and in his training he does many time more than 7'30". His HR is around 35-30 at 6' and beyond.
 

shoutatthesky

Generalist
Mar 4, 2006
943
161
0
42
What is a good way to measure HR during static? I don't want to have to look at my watch and count beats whilst in a meditative state.
Can someone maybe recommend a good waterproof HR monitor?
I guess it would require not just that your buddy watch you regarding safety but also record HR at set intervals during the hold?
 

perow1

New Member
Feb 28, 2005
279
22
0
If you have a pulse monitor that record everything then you are safe. If you have one that only gives the pulse in real time you can give the clock to your buddy who can check the pulse in real time.
 
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