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DIR and Freediving

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Tech (style) diving and Freediving - Do you do both?

  • DIR-trained, and freedive

    Votes: 7 25.0%
  • Tech/Cave trained, and freedive

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hogarthian diver (non-DIR), and freedive

    Votes: 6 21.4%
  • None of the above, but I both scuba dive and freedive

    Votes: 9 32.1%
  • Freedive only, I'm just here for the scuba info

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • Scuba only - I'm just here for the freediving info

    Votes: 3 10.7%

  • Total voters
    28
J

John A

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2004
118
13
108
Jay,
If your system works, than great, but to clear up a slight misconception on DIR rigging, remember that DIR/Hogarthian originated in cave diving. There are a couple of reasons why the stage/deco bottles go on the left side, one is that “they” found that it made for a much more streamlined set-up while scootering in the caves (and ocean), second was that some of the additional ditchable weight came for the heavy canister light on the right side (this was before the very slim line lights today). With any bottles on the right side it would make it somewhat difficult to ditch it quickly.
Also, remember that in the early 90’s the tech agencies were teaching the buffoonery of having different mixes on different sides of the body and poodle jackets on the 02, in DIR/Hogarthian then, as is almost standard now, the stages/deco bottles are just marked with the MOD. Furthermore, having the stage/deco bottles on the left allows all of the second stages to “naturally” come left shoulder, avoiding some confusion in a stressful situation and also avoiding having a crazy loop in the lp hose (unless using a Poseidon, but that is a real no no in DIR).
There has also been the argument that the rig balances better with bottles on both sides, I have personally never found this to be a problem when diving multiple stages on the left side. And also remember that DIR/Hogarthian is a team approach, having consistent rigs are important to the “system”. That is a few of the “major” reasons for DIR bottle position. Of course PADI Tec/Rec allows the diver to “split” the bottles left/right, that fact alone should tell you it’s wrong. Ha Ha.
 
J

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
0
55
John,
I understand where the original concept came from but I still don't see it as being any better than other approaches to tech diving. You admitted yourself that a lot of the ideas preached today came about when gear was much different than todays(bulky batt. packs, ect.) That's like saying, "Well it was good enough for grandpa it's good enough for me". I also think that some of the rigging methods play on too many what if's. No Poseidon's, no steel stage bottles, no bungeed wings, ect. The equipment today is pretty much bullet proof, it's the people that cause the most problems.
Also some of the concepts came from cave diving w/ constant overheads and deep penatrations, granted in the ocean we have the deco overhead but you don't need to rig for a physical overhead or extended penatration if you're not going to be in one.
DIR does work and I agree they have some good rigging ideas and if people want to follow that path then that's fine. They shouldn't say others are wrong or unsafe b/c we don't play by their rules. I think it is much more important to know your own gear and capabilities than to worry whether or not the guy next to you is rigged the exact same way as you are. A lot of tec diving is done basically as solo dives, good or bad. You may enter the water together but then not see each other till deco. IMO if you're not ready/willing to make the dive solo then you shouldn't be making the dive. And if you're by yourself then why does it matter how everyone else is rigged.
I'm not claiming to be any better diver than anyone else, I'm sure there are plenty of divers better than myself in this area. And I know a few tech divers that would make the who's-who of diving that don't dive DIR and do dives every bit as challenging and yet still come back alive.
The bottom line is there is room for variability in tech diving. IMHO.
Jay
 
J

John A

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2004
118
13
108
Jay:

Just a few things that I will take issue with only because there may be others reading this thread and they may be just beginning with tech.
Your statement “IMO if you're not ready/willing to make the dive solo then you shouldn't be making the dive” I have some problems with. Solo diving is easy regardless whether it is tech or rec, and I have done plenty of both. Solo diving deep wrecks/caves just to prove you can do it proves nothing. Proper buddy diving is much harder, notice I said proper. It requires trust and commitment to the other person/team member throughout the dive. Some divers are just not willing to make that commitment and that is fine, just don’t declare that by solo diving you are somehow a “notch” above the rest. Refusing or not doing any dive solo should never be construed as some how not being “qualified” to dive. I too have dove with friends that also would be considered in the “who’s who of diving (industry)” who would never consider doing a tech dive solo, but would be more the capable of doing so.
As to your statements regarding Poseidon regs / steel stages, ect., I will just add this comment, I, like many other divers started out in the early 90’s (and before) tech diving (I was first certified in ’75) and our rigs had everything except the kitchen sink. You saw it all on the tech boats back then. Now to the point, I, like a large number of divers, moved over to the DIR/Hogarthian approach from “personal preference”, I know of no diver that ever went back to “personal preference” after giving the DIR/Hogarthian system a chance. Just a thought. Enjoy.

John
 
J

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
0
55
Just a clarification on solo diving. As stated, it is my opinion on the subject although I don't think I'm alone. And it refers to the mindset of someone tech diving or rec diving, not necessarily whether you dive alone or not. If you're not mentally prepared to handle a situation on the bottom by yourself and are thinking b/c you have a buddy everything will turn out fine, you're kidding yourself. I do believe that the buddy system is best and if the divers frequently dive together that's great. I also have seen situations where it's better to dive alone than be buddied up w/ someone you are totally unfamiliar w/. As you know certification doesn't equal qualification. Even if it's the same cert you have.
As far as gear configuration goes this will be an endless listing of opinions. The way people rig and their ideas of what works for them and why is subjective, pure and simple. Things like regulator performance, scooter battery duration ect. can be tested analytically. I don't change my rig b/c something could, might, possibly, sometime happen. And that's just me, others, to each his own. It's like anything else in life, you weigh the risks and see if the activity is worth it.
I would caution any new divers keep your mind open. If DIR works for you then that's great I think it's a good system for some divers[/I] but know that there are other ways to do things that aren't wrong .
Jay
 
J

John A

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2004
118
13
108
Jay:
Maybe I just read your post wrong, if you mean “self-sufficient” (as opposed to solo), than you and I are in total agreement, the Buddy System is not and should never be a “dependant” relationship and DIR/Hogarthian does not teach that. Every diver in the team should be on the same page with regard to experience/motivation/training, if not, it better be a training dive. Anyone that would get in the water on a tech dive with a “green” buddy should not be diving anyway. Last place I would want to be is 260’ down and find out I am in the water with psycho-buddy. I have a group of buddies that I trust and are the only ones I will tech dive with, if they are not available, than I don’t go, its that easy.
As to gear issues, like I stated, I have never seen anyone go back after diving DIR/Hogarthian. Get out there and dive!

John
 
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