DNA change

[caymandiver]

I was freediving today, through the caves of Devil's Grotto in the Cayman Islands. I was lucky enough not to see any tankers(Scuba). When I see them coming a mile away I like to hide in the caves, only about 40ft deep but there are many diffrent sections with small holes just wide enough for a freediver to go though. Sometimes I would swim up to them in a very narrow section and swim by them, leaving people in complete . Other times I would sit there for couple of minutes and give them directions. But most of the time when they come I get tensed up and loose the "buzz".

Anyways that's not the point of the story. The point is, I know this will sound weird to many of you, I felt like my genetic make up was changing. I dive pretty much everyday for a couple of hours and something hit me today. Remind you I was in that "Zone" where I wasn't really thinking but just feeling and being. I was swiming by this 6 foot Turpin when it happened. I felt the need to breath after a while but I was so comfortable there with the ocean that I heard my body say I don't need to breath. It felt like my genetic make up was altering so I could be more comfortable underwater.

What happened to whales and dolphins a long time ago when they decided to head back into the water? What caused the DNA to slowly change over thousands of years where they don't need to breath like usal mammals?

I wonder if my kid and his kid and so on for another 100,000 years took on freediving as a way of life if they would be like dolphins! I guess it could happen right?

Have fun diving!

-Christian

 

[Jon]

This sounds like a post for Ted.

I am sure that he can give us all a nice synopsis of gradual vs. rapid evolution from a microbiological level vs. a geological one- did I get those terms right buddy.

We may have had similar discussions, once or twice, on the way back from a day of spearing. Just don't ask him for his take on the "naked ape swimming theory".:martial

Jon

 

[Erik]

Evoultion and how it would pertain to say, 50 generations of successive freedivers is something that has always been in my head.
Your experience of feeling as if you are "morphing" is not uncommon I think. I, and a few others, have some experiences that are similar. When in heavy training for a competition, I have got to the point where at any point, I could take a big breath with no breathe-up and feel the blood moving out of my limbs! Plus, the ability to do a 4+ minute breath-hold on the first attempt at any time with no breathe-up or preparation.
I think if you ask others, they would report similar circumstances. I also think it's not a genetic change, just a situation where one is doing so much breath-holding that the body stays on alert and the hemoglobin count stays very high.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[Bernt]

What you are talking about is Lamackian evolution: Inheritance of aquired traits. This was a popular belief until the discovery of dna and the mechanism of replication, after this we know it does not happen. The only way for your future relatives to be aquatically modified is if 1. They had a higher survival rate than non freedivers (hardly the case I am afraid ), and/or 2. It somehow led to more offspring (chicks digging you ). If one or two of these conditions were satisfied, depending on their relative success rate, your far away decendants (in thousands of years) may changed genetically, and developed special traits facilitative of diving.

 

[neshamah]

i Had a million question -but....

We can spend a lot of time posting the same topic about creation and evolution -and we are no going to get a conclusion -people have their own point of view-
________________________________

The problems of life are solved not by reasons but by relationships. we want to reason with the Creator.But what we really need is to rest in Him.We see God greatnes and his own littleness.and that is the turning point.,However ,the smaller we are in our own eyes,the greater God makes us in His sigth.

In the book of Job .( chapter38-39-40-41) Job claimed to know a great deal about God, so God examined him on several subjects: Creation -38-4-11- ,the regulating of nature 38-12,the stars and clouds in the heavens 38-31 and the ways os the animals and birds 39-30 . Needless to say,Job failed the examination -and so would you and I.

Saludos

Daniel.

 

[Bernt]

You never seem to follow the topic do you? It seems whereever I post something about evolution you intrude with preaching.

A person here wonders about genetic change and you invoke creation? Damn!

 

[unirdna]

You had a good day Cayman....

I know what you mean by the feeling you got. I long for those moments myself. The feeling can be intoxicating, and undoubtedly feels like your body is welcoming its new environment.

Nevertheless, Bernt nailed this one. You're talking about Lamarckism. Most commonly portrayed as the fallacy of the 'blacksmith's arms'. It goes like this... A child is born, grows up and becomes a blacksmith. Hammering all day for his whole life make his arms abnormally strong (among humans). He then passes his arm strength on to his offspring. Of course this does not happen. The genes you had when you were a zygote are the genes you'll have when you have breathed your last.

Evolution does not occur on the organism level. The only time new genomes are tested is when offspring are produced. Any changes in the performance of a single organism is caused by development and the principle of 'use and disuse' (simply stated: the body's inherent, genetically 'given' ability to make the parts that are used the most, stronger -- Body builders are the best example of those who exploit this function).

That said, realize that there is most likely something happening to you. It's not mutation, but it is your body bettering itself at the task you are demanding of it. The improvement you are feeling is probably NOT your imagination.....but it's not your DNA changing either .

Regards,
Ted

 

[Sorandril]

However, in the last several years, epigenetic mechanisms have been uncovered that make this a slow reality for both you and your descendants. That’s why we have the sea nomads.

Im pretty sure I’ve methylated a few things due to practice. Probably PTEN, I think my head has gotten bigger...

 

[Sorandril]

Evoultion and how it would pertain to say, 50 generations of successive freedivers is something that has always been in my head.
Your experience of feeling as if you are "morphing" is not uncommon I think. I, and a few others, have some experiences that are similar. When in heavy training for a competition, I have got to the point where at any point, I could take a big breath with no breathe-up and feel the blood moving out of my limbs! Plus, the ability to do a 4+ minute breath-hold on the first attempt at any time with no breathe-up or preparation.
I think if you ask others, they would report similar circumstances. I also think it's not a genetic change, just a situation where one is doing so much breath-holding that the body stays on alert and the hemoglobin count stays very high.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

I feel this way all the time by default. Powerful reflex kicks in instantly (which one of my friends thought was anemia lol) and my heart rate drops to 30-60. In other words, I’m practically a dolphin.

this and other things in this thread are being caused by increased HIF. I have no doubt.

PS. The altered state that began this thread ? Why I’m not as afraid as I probably should be. I hate it when certain people (usually the same who want to ban underwater swimming) assume that I don’t know what I feel. Alexithymia is an ableist word that needs to be removed from the medical lexicon.

 

[Sorandril]

What you are talking about is Lamackian evolution: Inheritance of aquired traits. This was a popular belief until the discovery of dna and the mechanism of replication, after this we know it does not happen. The only way for your future relatives to be aquatically modified is if 1. They had a higher survival rate than non freedivers (hardly the case I am afraid ), and/or 2. It somehow led to more offspring (chicks digging you ). If one or two of these conditions were satisfied, depending on their relative success rate, your far away decendants (in thousands of years) may changed genetically, and developed special traits facilitative of diving.

theres this thing called epigenetic notching and gene silencing of things like PTEN that would boost HIF1a function

and what you described has happened before see the South Pacific sea nomads. It may have happened in ancient Europe as well before Iron Age man showed up, but that’s mostly apocryphal