DOL-FIN HP as first monofin ?

[galpi]

Hi folks,

I want to get my first monofin for CWT and am considering getting the DOL-FIN HP because it seems like a very capable fin, travels easily and looks way more comfortable than the traditional monofin. I have some experience dolphin kicking with my bi-fins, but have never tried a monofin. Can someone who's tried both styles of monofin comment on that ? Would the DOL-FIN HP be more difficult to learn for a beginner ? and would you recommend sticking to a traditional monofin instead for a first monofin ? (btw, I don't have a way to try before I buy unfortunately)

Thanks all !

Pierre

 

[Fondueset]

Heres a video that includes former world and current national champion Eric Fattah diving with a Dol-fin recreationally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zw56MJxc4A

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

My first monofin I trained for several months was the Dolphin classic-- essentially the HP without the curved-wing attachments on the foil ends. (surely the Dolfin as seen in the cool video above was the DolFin Orca because of the special and improved encapsulated foot pocket).

Smith Aerospace - Products

The point is if you get the DolFin you as a first monofin, you will spend many hours in the water (days, weeks, months?) in perfecting the technique as I did. This will prove to be good training in itself when you get a monofin such as the Glide--as I recently did. Because when you do you will be able to use it naturally even on the first day. I would recommend learning on the Dolfin as your first monofin, as i did. Because it is very unforgiving you will be forced to apply the correct technique or else you won't even move!

Pictured here from only last week is an experienced monofinner from europe using the Dolfin, who is currently training at my place. Note how he is totally off angle in his stroke. He could not get the fin to work for the time he was in the water, consequently he won't pursue diving with it because he doesn't have the time to master it nor the desire.

I actually really like the footpockes of the Dolfin and the ability to adjust it to my feet. I've only had my Glide for a few months and already there are signs of the rubber cracking coming apart on the seams :naughty. I like the Glide because I feel in control of the stroke because of the big flexible bladeand that i can get a good burst of speed. Now I'd be very interested in incorporating the DolFin footpockets with a standard blade.

 

[Fondueset]

A few points: (Right Spearo - Eric has the Orca!)

The Dol-fin is relatively pricey.
It is, however, also very sturdy.
Build quality is not an issue.
You know it will fit your feet and the orca - due to being extended further from the feet, is less prone to the alignment issues Spearo has mentioned. The model (in development) that uses cycling shoes should completely obviate this issue. Otherwise it's a matter of making sure the fin is snug and training as I'm sure Spearo could tell you.

In my opinion the learning curve with any mono fin is quite long.
It took me a full year to get to where I could even start to develop good technique with my Waterway nemo - let alone appreciate a good hyperfin.
Of course you can certainly enjoy the fin quite quickly - though it my case it took several months for my feet to adjust.

With high end fins - hyperfins - they are virtually all made in Russia and Ukraine - this makes shipping them back if they are the wrong size or stiffness very expensive. Even manufacturers such as Waterway - which has an excellent reputation - have problems from time to time getting the fit and blade stiffness right. For a first fin I usually recommend something like the Waterway Nemo - which has moulded foot pockets and comes in several stiffnesses (soft for a first fin and for recreational diving). However there are other reasonably priced alternatives such as Starfins 'simple' fins and the waterway 'training' fins.

If you choose to go with a hyperfin right out of the get I've had extremely good experiences with Starfins. Consistent quality, sizing, finish and wonderful blades.

You've probably seen Ron's videos on youtube - I've only used the Classic - and very briefly - so I'm not qualified to comment - but the design does seem very efficient to me.

Here is a link to Eric Fattah's review of the Dol-fin orca. I think Ron is developing a stepped down version of this fin - lacking the fairing - that is less expensive and very close in performance.

http://www.deeperblue.com/2010/07/04/gear-review-the-dol-fin-orca/

 

[efattah]

Having used a zillion monofins and all the DOL-Fin incarnations, my personal opinion is that if you want to go the DOL-Fin route, you should get the X20 or Orca. The Classic and HP have been optimized for a higher drag diver (scuba diver) and behave and feel very different, and require very different technique, compared to the X20 and Orca which are 'freediver optimized.'

It is also my opinion that the only readily-available monofin worth anything these days is the Starfins, which is about the same price as the X20 anyway.

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

Eric, from seeing your CWT record videos (100 and 104M) I see you have used the same monofin with the black rubber...is that the StarFin? From the StarFins website, the Hyper looks pretty much like the Glide.

What is your opinion of the famous Glide?

Cheers

 

[Fondueset]

I think Eric uses a Chen Bin - (I'll shut up now )

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

Cool...yeah looks like the 2Deep model.

 

[cdavis]

galpi,

If you can wait a few months, I will have experience with the x18 or x20 prototypes. Like you, I'm a bifin diver, who has experimented with several traditional monos and found them unsuitable to the type of diving I do (translation, I'm not willing to do the kind of practice and time it takes to get good with a traditional mono). Traditional monos also have some inherent disadvantages for my style of diving. Its my understanding that either of the above fins have a much wider range of efficient movement than a normal mono and are supposed to be easier to attain a reasonable beginners expertise. I'll find out pretty soon.

 

[Fondueset]

LISTEN TO CONNOR!
Between he and Eric it don't get no better.

 

[efattah]

My deep dives were done with a chen-bin, a now discontinued model. The 'bin fin' is pretty good, Guillaume did 113m with it, but the star fins is better. The Glide fin, in my opinion, *sucks*. Guillaume, Natalia Molchanova and Alexey Molchanov all agree with me on the Glide fin. In fact, the very first waterway glide, black fiberglass with uncomfortable footpocket, was actually not too bad. But subsequent versions were worse, primarily because the footpocket was too soft and most of the thrust power went into bending and flexing the footpocket, and not to actually bending the fin.

There are other very good monofins, but not easily available. Guillaume, Natalia and Alexey all use custom russian monofins, which are extremely good, but not available to a normal person.

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

Thanks Eric...great information to know. I'll look into the StarFins later on and hope they can do an exact foot size. But for now the Glide seems to be working fine for me even though the footpocket came out a size too big...I stuffed in some extra neoprene for a more snug fit--working much better.

 

[Kars]

To answer the question of identification.

Classic fin = blade with 1 mould footpocket following the sole of the feet.
Flyer fin = blade with 1 mould footpocket following a small angle (~12 deg.) + wings
Hyper fin = blade with 2 footpockets and big angle (15-35 deg.) + wings
Glide fin = the Waterway brandname of a Hyper fin.
Hydrofoil fin = fin using fixed rotating wing instead of a bending blade.

I've not tried Ron's Hydrofoil fin, so I cannot say what's a better choice.
What I can say however, is if you can afford a hydrofoil fin, you probably can afford to buy a soft Nemo fin first. This way you can start fast, and work on your technique.
When the Hydrofoil arrives you will have the muscles and some technique to continue.
The Nemo is still great for in public hours, it's more safe to use among other swimmers, and you can feel more safe when you borrow it out a potential new buddy.

I hope this is helpful.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Fondueset]

That is a good point Kars - using the Dol-fin in a public pool could be dicey.

Concerning the sizing with Starfins. As far as I know a number of people here on DB have purchased these fins. I know of no case where the sizing was off. The only person I know of who was not happy with his is Dave Mullins - the blade was too stiff for him because he has the ankles of a little princess.

In my case - and that of a fellow local diver here - I gave Alex the information he requested, explained my priorities - long recreational dives, usually less than 40m - and let him do the rest. I have personally ordered three fins - one for my daughter, one to be worn with 5 mil socks and one to be worn with no socks. My dive buddy ordered his for 3 mil socks. All arrived perfectly sized and tuned for our style of diving. The blade is soft and very responsive - really nice to swim with, and the foot pockets are the most comfortable I've used. At first I thought the blade was too soft - but it actually gives a better return than my other fins. (my Tropol also has a very nice blade - but stiffer and less angle) Alex's newer hyperfins have a blade angle close to 30 degrees - which makes better use of the downstroke and also makes for a flatter glide and easier surface swimming. I've done two mile surface swims with this fin and been perfectly comfortable. My dive buddy's fin is also precisely as ordered. He uses it both with and without 3 mil socks.

For constant weight competition I would probably want a slightly stiffer blade. Maybe not if I was competing in warm water without weights. My fin is very nice for dynamic.

I don't know the Dol-fin like Eric does - but it makes sense that you would want one of the models with the extension out from the feet in order to equal or exceed the performance of a hyperfin. The Dol-fin is nearly frictionless in the water and very efficient - the ratio between felt effort and thrust is sort of disorienting if you are accustomed to normal fins.

 

[cdavis]

I'll be practicing with the Dol-fin in a public pool, quite a bit. Billfish and sawfish slash their bill through bait fish schools when feeding. I wonder what the Dol-fin can do with swimmers? Sashimi anyone? Seems like a great way to work off some aggression.

Actually this should work pretty well, the pool isn't crowded and I use a lane that is half again wider than normal and 2 meters+ deep..

Connor

 

[Spearo_the_Hero]

The Dol-fin is nearly frictionless in the water and very efficient - the ratio between felt effort and thrust is sort of disorienting if you are accustomed to normal fins.

I hear you on this one! ...
...mine was the other way around...when i got the Glide I was like, "now i'm moving and i certainly feel it" I feel safer at depth, but that is just me.

For Pool use, i don't know since I don't use a pool, but i'd watch out for peoples shins in the pool and if you bang up against some tiles....don't bother to look back.

 

[Fondueset]

Connor - Excellent: we want video!
You should come up here this summer and swim through some schools of suckers. Better yet: Fall - you can go upriver with the salmon and we'll wait downstream and gather the pieces

 

[REVAN]

Having used a zillion monofins and all the DOL-Fin incarnations, my personal opinion is that if you want to go the DOL-Fin route, you should get the X20 or Orca. The Classic and HP have been optimized for a higher drag diver (scuba diver) and behave and feel very different, and require very different technique, compared to the X20 and Orca which are 'freediver optimized.' ....

FYI: The X20 is a new DOL-Fin model that will be available later this year (July time-frame expected for deliveries). A new website update is scheduled to go up within the next couple of weeks to introduce the new product and start taking orders.

The raked fin tips incorporated on all newer DOL-Fin models add both efficiency and stability to the hydrofoil and reduce the tendency for the foil to go crooked as spear-the-hero was pointing out. The Classic model with its totally straight foil has somewhat touchy control characteristics, but it does forcibly teach efficient fin control techniques that are hard to get with other monofins (which is why there are so many "experienced monofin divers" who still don't know how to correctly control their fin without wasting excess energy).

The shoe interface of the X20 will also make a big difference for fin stability and ease of use. Because the fin feels so connected, it has excellent feedback to the swimmer which will significantly reduce the time required to learn proper control techniques.

Based on experiences with the X18 Alpha design, I'm expecting the X20 to be one of the easiest to learn and most forgiving monofins for newbies. The different trim settings of the X20 fin will allow the swimmer to update the fin to keep it in tune with their swimming capabilities as they improve their flexibility, streamlining and core strength through training. In essence, this fin will be able to mature with the swimmer.

Cheers,
Ron

 

[galpi]

Thanks all for the great replies, much appreciated.

I think the DOL-FIN HP is out (thanks Eric). I'm still interested in the X20, Orca is too expensive. Connor, do you know when you'll be trying the X20 ? I can't wait very long unfortunately. I'm off to Thailand in June for a whole month (maybe longer) of training. I'm a little hesitant to get a hydrofoil and learn from someone who's never tried one before, but hopefully after a month of diving I'd be able to figure things out. I'll check out the Starfins as well ...

Pierre

 

[cdavis]

I'll have my hot hands on an x18 prototype in about a week. It should be very similar to the x20. Reviews for that one should be availabe within the month and I'll have some comments on mine soon.


Connor