double wraps ?

[denian]

Just to clear confusion in my grey matter regarding wraps on my spear guns ?I have cressi Geronimos both have top metal line releases operated by trigger letting go a wrap from spear -round end of gun -round release back to front end of gun .is that a double wrap?All so on the sides of both guns are plastic line clips with two line slots how and when would these be used ? If I had more line in to one of these clips would the gun be powerfully enough to justify the line length?

 

[Scoobaru]

No that's not double wrapped. A double wrap involves the line/mono passing over the line release clip twice. I think the clips on both sides may be used for a reel possibly???? As that ha to have a certain amount of line between the reel and the spear to act as a shock absorber, if not it will either snap the line or it will cause the reel to over rotate and "birdsnest".

I used to have a geronimo and I found double stringing it was a pain because of the design of the muzzle but it is do able. The spear will drop over the Double length of line, unless you uprate the rubbers/add another rubber. But to do this you have to match the spear to the rubber size. I'm not sure if the Geronimo muzzle can handle two bands and I'm not sure what size rubbers the barrel will take before it starts flexing.

Sorry for the long response. Hope this answered your questions

 

[denian]

Thanks for that scoobaru one wrap is plenty to get tangled up in never mind two !Reloading in the day is a pain and at night is a pain in the bum .Shame we can't have a a slow retracting reel.!if the line is not long enough get a longer gun.I can see the reasoning useing side clips to ease the impact on a reel that makes sense to me.some simple stuff is not explained by the manufactures they take it you know all the basics.

 

[bura]

You didn't said what size is your Geronimo. It have open head so you can put circular bands on it to have more power. Then in some cases you can put double line over line release. It depends of course about bands size (2x14mm, 2x16,mm, 1x18mm), their coefficient, their streching lenght and shaft diameter. I don't know how much power your Geronimo can handle (banding and recoil).

On my 90 cm wooden speergun I have 2x16mm, on 3,5 coefficient with 6,75 Trygons shaft line over LR twice. It is about 5 m line which is connected to 50 m of reel spectra. On the reel I have brake where I can adjust hardness. Hope I help.

 

[denian]

Thanks for that advice bura the guns are 45cm and 75 cm cressi Geronimo the 45 has 18mm bands 140mm long which stretch to 400mm with hole in mussel for second circular band think the spear is 7mm as the 75 looks thinner 6mm same mussel on 75 but with 16mm bands 180mm long stretching to 700mm I haven't got the 75 wet yet but I'm glad there not 18mm its a long way to load them .cressi would of tried all options so you would hope this is the best set up for accuracey not for power and distance .neither have bungies should I fit them to both guns?

 

[Scoobaru]

Bungees aren't vital, but I prefer using them as it absorbs some of the shock of the gun being shot and the fish fighting. I would recommend them if you use double bands tho as it will put a lot of strain on the mono without

 

[bura]

Denian I think that is overmuch for 45cm.

On 75 you now have 2x16 on 3,8 coefficient and 6,0 shaft. I think that you will have much recoil which will affect the accuracy. You will have lot of power and a bit of weight. You will see when you try it. Bungee is always welcome.

Just for example. On my wooden 102 cm, I have 2x16 (streching 102cm and 99cm) on 3,5 with 6,5 shaft. Gun is about 2.3 kg full equiped and I have accuracy up to 3,5 m from top of the shaft. Is is accurate because of the weight.

 

[Scoobaru]

Totally agree with bura. I use a 70cm RA gun for night diving and keep that single banded (18mm) with a 6.3mm spear, I also keep it single wrapped as it is a pain in the a@# loading a double wrapped gun at night. A couple of the blokes I dive with (nobby and Spearolee) use 50cm guns at night and again keep them single banded and single wrapped for the same reason. I think if you wanted to go down the double banded/double wrapped route you would be best of purchasing a 90cm gun for the days when Vis is good and you need maximum range.

I hope this has helped you and not been too confusing/misleading for you

 

[foxfish]

I have got an old toy action man based on the 1960s James Bond & he is equipped with a bigger gun than a 45!!

 

[Jonny250]

if not it will either snap the line or it will cause the reel to over rotate and "birdsnest".

well it looks like the question over double wraps is sorted, but i just wanted to offer my 2p regarding the use of the reel; you still would need wraps suitable for the range of your bands/spear when using a reel. the reel only comes into play for either playing the fish, or [in my case] if in strong tide with a fish on the bottom or in weed [i'm sure there are other uses, but those i think are the obvious 2]. There should never be a situation where the reel can spin freely.

Here's a couple of piccies of my setup - i know there are plenty of alternatives but this is fairly typical i think [pretty much a breakaway rig, without the breakaway!] i thought i would tie the reel line to the tail end of the bungee, but i/m not keen to trust the dyneema line hidden inside the rubber - cant inspect it!

 

[Scoobaru]

Looks good mate. I always wonderred about the operation of reels. Thanks for sharing with us

 

[Mr. X]

Scoobaru covered it pretty well. Sounds like you have a single wrap, which is good/normal. While I have heard of 70cm railguns being used with double bands to shoot very large freshwater fish in very poor visibility in some former Eastern bloc countries - it's the exception rather than the norm. If you need more range, get a longer speargun (we all go through this power/range/customization thought process ). But you already got a 75, so give that a try first - I find it a very good size for the UK. I was in Cornwall last week and found my 75cm good there, took a 90 too but it never got wet.

Re. the plastic line clips, I asked the same question (about the Cressi Comanche) several years ago. Didn't get a definitive response, so Scoobaru's guess about reels might be right, but the conclusion at that time seemed to be that it was to allow faster loading - for example in competitions or when its very fishy. The Comanche was used by an Italian competition champion, so that made some sense - although you have to wonder how much time, if any, it would actually save.

I guess you could use the plastic clips for an additional wrap - but why not just put the second wrap around the regular line release (which should offer less resistance)?

By all means try a second wrap, most of us do at some stage, before coming back to a single-wrap (in the UK at least). If you have a 120cm 2x16mm railgun, I guess a double wrap might be something to consider but even then you have to wonder if it is worth the addition hassle/increased loading time/greater tangle hazard.

 

[Mr. X]

I have got an old toy action man based on the 1960s James Bond & he is equipped with a bigger gun than a 45!!

Sounds like a reef/wreck gun/humane killer! Fish do come in very close sometimes. I guess it might be handy for "holed up" fish (conger eels/Med. Grouper) too - but that's not something I encounter much. Although I recall watching some videos taken on the Bognor Regis reef where they get some large holed-up bass (although I think the spearo concerned used an RA90 despite that).

 

[foxfish]

Y

 

[Scoobaru]

Pure Amazing.

 

[denian]

Hey foxfish they based that action man on me! what you trying to say. isn't it good anough for you now youve played with it for 50 odd years?And we all know James Bond had lots of your lets say experimental guns! ...I love my 45 cm gun I use it most of the time .in my first post I was only asking about double wraps not that I was going to put them on ! If I had blue water and great vis with bigger fish I would get a longer gun.Maybe even a 55cm.!.Thankyou all for your input .

 

[foxfish]

LOL sorry mate just my strange sense of humor.
To be honest I did not even know they made such a short gun but there must obviously be a demand for them!
I hope you can make to Guernsey next year & you can use a double wrap 90...

 

[denian]

No probs at all !.Nice to have some banter !Sure your not 'M' with your technical skills and knollage ?.

 

[Apneaddict]

While I have heard of 70cm railguns being used with double bands to shoot very large freshwater fish in very poor visibility in some former Eastern bloc countries - it's the exception rather than the norm. If you need more range, get a longer speargun (we all go through this power/range/customization thought process ). But you already got a 75, so give that a try first - I find it a very good size for the UK. I was in Cornwall last week and found my 75cm good there, took a 90 too but it never got wet.


By all means try a second wrap, most of us do at some stage, before coming back to a single-wrap (in the UK at least). If you have a 120cm 2x16mm railgun, I guess a double wrap might be something to consider but even then you have to wonder if it is worth the addition hassle/increased loading time/greater tangle hazard.

We do this in Canada for freshwater spearing also!

I've got a 70cm Mako Predator 2nd gen with 2 x 16mm bands and I am needing a second wrap. I am trying to get a reverse trigger mech for it as well (and keep the same bands, just more stretch) and that will SURELY need a second wrap. It's already tugging pretty firmly at the gun at the end of the line with a single wrap as is.

 

[Mr. X]

Hmm - so you you are using a short gun because visibility is poor but you want to use a double wrap to increase range - looks like a bit of a contradiction in requirements. I guess it might offer greater flexibility if visibility is mainly poor but occasionally opens up.

I suspect a single 16mm rubber band would be more than powerful enough for your needs; bulk rubber is pretty powerful & railgun muzzles give you quite a lot more than regular screw-in band guns.

You are using a muzzle bungee aren't you?