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Dry Frenzel works fine, but in water: NOPE :-(

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Gert Leroy

https://www.youtube.com/user/gertleroycom/
Jul 26, 2016
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hi,
i can do Frenzel dry without any problems, also with open mouth, and i feel clear 100% equalisations.
But once i get in the water and dive for some reason it just doesn't work anymore and i have to switch back to valsalva. What can be wrong?
 
Try to relax in water,that solves many things in diving including equalisations.And if you can equalise after 10 metars that
definitely is not valsalva.
 
For some strange reason, I have been doing Frenzel all my life, without even knowing it.
I'm only AIDA 2*, but I had no problems with Frenzel. I did have problems with my breathholding, getting contractions already halfway on my way down to -16m, resulting in 3/4 of the dive in rather traumatic discomfort. (On all four dives where I got to -16m!) If you can give me your ability for holding your breath long enough, I'll be glad to give you my Frenzel equalization. :)

Seriously, ... from my LITTLE experience: stay calm, don't rush it: go down slowly. Tuck your chin to your chest (at least, don't look up!). You'll get there. I consider my handicap (weak breathhold/early contractions) a much bigger one than yours!

A fellow Belgian.
Jo
 
if you can equalise after 10 metars that
definitely is not valsalva.

I've done valsalva till 16m but that was about the deepest i could go with this technique. The pushing was really strong and not relax at all. I often use a mix of valsalva and swallowing. When valsalva is not enough to equalise, i use it to get enough pressure to the head. Then all i do i swallow and i get full equalisation. But you are right, you might as well focus on other techniques (frenzel) from the beginning if you wanna dive deeper.
 
I did have problems with my breathholding, getting contractions already halfway on my way down to -16m, resulting in 3/4 of the dive in rather traumatic discomfort.
Hi Jo,
i also experienced contractions on my way down to 30m (feet down i have no problems with equalisation). Let's say starting from 25m. Mentally, it is something to overcome, cause you might think you should be able to do at least half of your dive (the full descend) without contractions. I have let this thought go. If they come, they come. I don't fight them. I actually enjoy contractions. They don't hurt, they make me feel relaxed, no harm done. They are not at all a "traumatic discomfort" like you describe them. So try to change the way you think about them. Start loving contractions ;-)

Have you done CO2 tables yet?
 
Hey,

I've been having the same problem for quite some time now. Haven't found out why. I managed to go to 35 meter (CWF) with a kind of modified Valsalva. I have no problems with frenzel until I'm upside down. When doing the frenzel upside down the air is just not going to the right places of some reason.
 
Hey,

I've been having the same problem for quite some time now. Haven't found out why. I managed to go to 35 meter (CWF) with a kind of modified Valsalva. I have no problems with frenzel until I'm upside down. When doing the frenzel upside down the air is just not going to the right places of some reason.


Same problem here
 
I'm sorry I can't help. I've only been to -16m which was hard enough already. (Equalization was fine with Frenzel bit contractions started already halfway on my way down!)

... do you tuck your chin onto your chest or do you look "up" when diving, arching your neck backwards? The former is better, the latter is worse for frenzel I heard...
 
Today head first and was ok til 5 7 meters then must turn my body clear and I am ok voor 2 meters then again turn and clear till the bottom 14 meters.
If a go with head first sometimes I can clear when a look to the surface I put my chin away from my body.
 
Today head first and was ok til 5 7 meters then must turn my body clear and I am ok voor 2 meters then again turn and clear till the bottom 14 meters.
If a go with head first sometimes I can clear when a look to the surface I put my chin away from my body.

Weird, I remember in the AIDA 2* course I did that one thing that could help was to put your chin closer to your chest instead of away from it. Maybe you can ask your instructor?
 
Try to get Frenzel technique from this video. Let us know if it helped:

 
Have you tried doing a headstand dry then trying frenzel? Have you tried doing a frenzel on the surface before descending?

When you say "can't" what happens?

There should only be two kinds of issues: one is you're keeping your throat open, the other is you're closing your soft palette. . .I am guessing it's #2, and so I am thinking if you stay on the surface, practice until you can Frenzel while floating with face immersed, then you can try sinking down headfirst and doing it, then you can try deeper. . .?

I would float facedown in a 3m deep pool, and try to frenzel on the surface until I could do that, then hang down heads-down until I could do that, then go deeper and try to do a bunch of duck-dives until I could do one every meter or half-meter. .

You can also try exercises like closing your throat and sucking in or blowing out against it dry, then in water if that's the issue.

Hope this helps.
 
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Have you tried doing a headstand dry then trying frenzel? Have you tried doing a frenzel on the surface before descending?

When you say "can't" what happens?

There should only be two kinds of issues: one is you're keeping your throat open, the other is you're closing your soft palette. . .I am guessing it's #2, and so I am thinking if you stay on the surface, practice until you can Frenzel while floating with face immersed, then you can try sinking down headfirst and doing it, then you can try deeper. . .?

I would float facedown in a 3m deep pool, and try to frenzel on the surface until I could do that, then hang down heads-down until I could do that, then go deeper and try to do a bunch of duck-dives until I could do one every meter or half-meter. .

You can also try exercises like closing your throat and sucking in or blowing out against it dry, then in water if that's the issue.

Hope this helps.


Ok thanks, when I dive head first and equalised there happens nothing.
I try now what you had suggested .
Tomorrow i go to ear specialist
 
and then after some sessions.. it worked!
guess the problem was i didn't fully close the glotis. now i do and the frenzel works! it's a matter of being aware of what is open en what is closed. Hard to find out as a beginner in frenzel.. cause these are muscles we are usually not aware of.
 
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