Dwindling fish stocks?

[Pinniped72]

Hello all, we keep on hearing that fish stocks are lowering, in some cases rapidly and I had a thought to canvass opinion on here, we would be the people on the ground and in the know so to speak I would have thought, so how about it, in your life time have you noticed that there are less fish about, the one that instantly comes to my mind, in my small part of the world is mackerel, I have noticed a definite decline over the last 15 years, without a doubt! Very sad but very true............. well to my mind anyway I blame that Hugh bloke when he told everyone to eat them, calm down Hugh, only joking............. well kind of

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I suppose that in general fish stocks are dwindling, but there are many exceptions. For instance in 1994, gillnets were banned within three miles of the California coast line. Since then, white sea bass stocks have rebounded and size of fish has increased. When I started hunting them about 20 years ago, a 50 pound fish was a notable catch. Now many divers get a first fish that is over 50 pounds. They get a chance to grow up now. Halibut have benefitted from the gill net ban too.

This year we've had a big increase in juvenile (8 to 12 feet) great white sharks. In my town in the last couple of weeks multiple sharks have been seen right outside the surf line and on several days beaches have been closed with helicopters using loudspeakers to warn swimmers and surfers to leave the water. In some cases up to 25 sharks have been sighted in a half mile stretch of coast. A woman snorkeling in four feet of water at a popular surfing beach had her hamstring and part of her buttock torn off by a shark. There are many theories to explain the increase, but one is that baby sharks used to be caught in the gill nets but no longer are. Others think the big increase in the sea lion and seal population is to blame, although most of these sharks are of the size that eats fish before switching to mammals when they get bigger. Some of my favorite dive spots are kelp beds about a mile offshore and I'll confess to feeling uneasy. Nothing would prevent these sharks from swimming out from the surf line, and some may feel ready to step up to mammals.

Anyway, there are some examples of fish stocks that seem to be increasing.

 

[foxfish]

Where I live in the channel Island, I can not think of a single fish species that is not in decline!
Even our fishing fleet has shrunk by 50% in the last 10 years.
Very sad.....

 

[Pinniped72]

Sad indeed, although Bills account goes to show that if things are changed in time, the ocean can bounce back.............. I do think that the ocean and the species in it, have tipping points though and that its not an infinite resource, lets hope we can make changes before its all too late. That bit in Pirates of the Caribbean springs to mind, "the worlds got smaller Jack" to which he replies, "no mate, there's just less in it".

 

[cdavis]

If the problem is overfishing, tight catch limits can often, but not always, bring back the fish. Bills's example is a good one. Goliath grouper off Florida is another. The population had been decimated by the 1980s Harvest was prohited around 20 years ago and the Goliath population has exploded since then. In other cases, looks like cod in the NE Atlantic, removing a top preditor results in a shift in the environment, making recovery near impossible. Something takes its place, usually not something we want.

In my case, grouper and hogfish populations in the Bahamas have been decimated and are still declining. Little regulation of catch. Everywhere I go there are far fewer fish than even 10 years ago, and only a miniscule fraction of what was there in the 1970s.

 

[foxfish]

I don't like to dwell on this subject as I find it all too depressing but it is not just the sea that is suffering from the effects of an ever increasing World population.
Only last evening, I was sitting in our garden with a few friends. we were discussing how things have changed in our life time.
Someone pointed out the lack of insects. 20 years ago we would of been complaining about the wasps trying to get in out beer bottles, brushing off grass hoppers from the table top, trying to identify the numerous butterflies. Watching bats feeding on moths, being amazing at the evening bird song & after dark, owls hooting!
All we had last night was a few sea gulls and a few carrion crows.... "where has all the wild life gone" someone said!
Another mystery discussed was the disappearance of marine worms, the ones that we all at one time, collected for fishing bait?
I find it really sad that I have spent my life eating a diet rich with wonderful sea food. Food that I harvested from the beach, a boat or under the water. Now I savour the occasional free meal I can gather & regret the price I have to pay for 3 day old shop bought, imported sea food!
I could say I was lucky to be around during the bumper years when the sea was full of fish & often overflowing with fish!

 

[Pinniped72]

Maybe its the reason that Stephen Hawkins reckons we need to leave the planet within 100 years, maybe he knows something we don't.............. well he actually knows a lot of things I don't! If the world consumed as the west does now, it could not support the current human population and with more and more of the world following our consumerist ways, it could be runaway overconsumption more than global warming etc that we need to worry about it? Who knows, one thing for sure though, we cant carry on the way we are, there'll be nothing left!

 

[Bill McIntyre]

cddavis's mention of Goliath grouper reminds me of my past. I was responsible for killing a few as a teenager in the late 1950s, but they have recovered enough so that some people consider them to be a nuisance.

We have a similar situation with giant Black Sea Bass in Southern California. I moved out here in 1975 and by 1980 I had seen one. In the early 80s it became illegal to take them and now we see lots of them. At some spots they try to take the fish that we Spear, although it sounds like the Goliath grouper are worse. In both cases, all it took
was a change in limits to see them come back. Of course many people think it's gone too far and are urging a limited take. Maybe a few fish per year per person? It seems that after take of a fish is prohibited, it's hard to ever reverse it. I don't want to shoot a Goliath grouper or Black Sea bass ever again, but I guess it's hard to deny that to a young diver if the species isn't threatened.

 

[cdavis]

I'm with Bill. Shoot my last Goliath many years ago and don't want to shoot another, but I wish somebody could/would. They are so numerous and so aggressive. Its not unknown for a Goliath to steal a fish and get a hand and arm at the same time. I don't know of anyone who has died, but they can be pretty scary for a freediving spearo.

The abundance of Goliaths is off the charts, far more than anyone can remember, but the biologist are depending on their models, which say the fish has a long way to go. Trouble with models is they are always, inherently, far behind reality, both in showing overfishing and showing recovery. Its so hard to impement decent restrictions, that I can't blame the biologists too much for being reluctant to ease the limits they fought so hard to get implemented. I've been in the position of trying to convince the regulaters that a fish population needed tight regulation, a hard sell.

 

[Pinniped72]

I agree that the whole thing comes down to sustainability and basically if humans weren't too greedy and ignorant in overfishing in the first place, controls would not be required and over population would not be a problem, I mean ocean life has managed for over 500 million years without our interference, managing to cope and bounce back from several mass extinction events. I feel that the fundamental problem is that the ocean eco system is so complex, we don't truly understand its complexities and connections, yet play with restrictions with one hand whilst overfishing with the other, in the long term I feel that we will slip up big time and that the only solution is to not overfish in the first place. A different balance in the ocean could make this planet uninhabitable for us and many other species, I personally doubt that as a species we have the wisdom or will, to manage the ocean sustainably but I would love to be proved wrong and hope that the passage of time does so

 

[Pero Curcic]

Hello, with great interest I read your thread. In the adriatic sea I could also notice a decline in fish stock, especially the dentex and
conger. The point wihich I miss in your explanaitions is if you have some books of ihtiology which are showing this fundamental problems.
I personaly, find it very intersting to compare books about fishing from the 50ies with those of the 90ties here in Croatia. Best wishes, Pero

 

[cdavis]

Find a copy of Cousteau's "Silent World" and look at the pics of grouper and grouper catches with primative spearing gear around the French coast in the 40s and 50s. Mind boggling what it used to be. Otherwise, there are a ton of fishery biology texts, Google search should turn up a bunch.

 

[subunit]

I mean ocean life has managed for over 500 million years without our interference, managing to cope and bounce back from several mass extinction events.
I personally doubt that as a species we have the wisdom or will, to manage the ocean sustainably but I would love to be proved wrong and hope that the passage of time does so

..and oceanlife would bounce back again anytime it will get a break.
and it probably dont need all that long as we might think to come back .
..BUT, it wont get a break intense and long enough as long as we humans are around in such numbers as we have been for sometimes , and as long as we have enough use of our technology and natural resources to go out there and kill em all .
and the catching of oceanlife is just one factor of the dilemma.
climate change, coastal development, littering, the oilindustry, chemicals, radioactive polution, boattraffic and what else i dont
even thought or know of....
i enjoyed every day i have spent in the sea. and from the first day i heard the older telling me how poor the sea looking today,
years ago it have been so much better and full of life.
now turning to be a little older myself i enjoy every day in the sea more then ever before.
not because it gets better out there....because i am afraid it will get worse any day soon....

 

[subunit]

....remember in the 80s, when it was popular amongst the early greenpeace enthusiasts to put stickers on their volkswagen vans and on their fridges....
like the "nuclear power ?..no thanks"-sticker, or the rainbow greenpeace-sticker or the peace-sign....
it had also the one with an old cree-indian saying, i always liked the meaning....

 

[subunit]

....and it is just recently that i bounced up on an "updated version" of it....had to laugh, even though its not all that funny....