elios taylor made -- need measurement advice

[rslomkow]

I went with the black coat inside & Nylon outside Heiwa, and does not require lube to get into. I did pretty pretty relaxed measurments and it came fitting just fine.

I find the coatings to be better than nylon for warmth, I have never owned an open-cell as I have too much fear of destroying them (I have torn my nylon covered suits). The black coat is closer fitting to the skin than the silver coat (different vendor I have had before)

I also sent them a photo of me (wearing nothing but the speedos, I was wearing for the measuring session) so they could believe my measurments, because a friend of mine had them [Elios] send his measurments back for a double-check.

 

[poacher]

Trux,
I belive your comments on lube are misleading with regards to the quantities when you talk about 2 litres of lube
I use about half a litre of lube to get into my suit which is usually done standing on the grass at the carpark near the beach or point where i am about to dive so any excess will water and fertilize the grass and be biodegraded there also the half a litre of lube contains only a little shampoo -about the same amount or a bit less than that which I use to was my hair everyday. When I wash my hair in the shower it flows through the sewer to the same ocean that I dive in so I don't see my one or two dives a week being any worse than washing my hair at home once or twice more.
if you are concerned you could use a non scented biodegradeable lube.
Peter

 

[Fondueset]

On the lube question. I'd have to give up my open cell suit to not use it. I just checked and I have my lube in a .5 liter bottle - it is organic hair conditioner diluted at least 1 to 5 and 500ml lasts me at least 20 dives. I normally concentrate the lube in areas where it is most needed after spraying the interior of the suit with water. I then rub those areas together on the inside to distribute the lube and make sure they are sliding. I've refined my technique so now there is very little waste. On the other hand, I see no reason to wear an open cell suit in a pool.


Wolle,
On the cold issue - during our DB telegraph cove trip this past spring my daughter wore a 3 mil plush suit the whole time! Water temps were 8 to 10c and we were diving all day! The rest of us had at least 5-6.5 mil open cell and we were quite cold. Our Elios 'summer' suits are holding up pretty well after a couple of seasons of heavy use.

To even dive three seasons here I need a very warm wetsuit. Its nearly allways 12C or less in the thermalclines. As it is I dive all winter in my 5 mil - which certainly would not be possible with a fabric lined suit. I'd like to try a soft smooth in suit sometime though. Be interesting to see if it's as warm as open cell.

 

[Bill]

Sven
We could market a product for getting into wet suits. Some combination of rotting kelp leaves and pond scum, nuke it in the oven to kill any bugs and strain out the lumps. Let's call it organic "Suit Snot". Maybe we could get rich.
Aloha
Bill

 

[iceselkie]

..having a wetsuit already means you've introduced something non-natural into the environment, but there is something out there to lube up in that is also enviro-friendly: http://www.moosejuice.com/?pageName=SuitJuice

if i had the money i'd try it out- but i just use small amounts of conditioner, like chris, smooth it around, and some on my skin before going in. no use wrecking your neoprene, it creates more waste than a dollop of conditioner a dive.
anyone wanna comment on using egg whites as lube?

 

[icarus pacific]

Sven
We could market a product for getting into wet suits. Some combination of rotting kelp leaves and pond scum, nuke it in the oven to kill any bugs and strain out the lumps. Let's call it organic "Suit Snot". Maybe we could get rich.
Aloha
Bill

Waaay ahead of you Bill. I've got a product coming out in '07 and you've got a complimentary bottle coming your way. Pity though it won't smell like the real thing, but maybe that's for the best.

 

[Jon]

Re: elios Tailor made -- need measurement advice

I've had a few suits with different linings (gold, black shadow, silver, open cell) and I needed some type of lube to get into them without ripping all the hair off my body. :crutch I "have" been able to get into my 3mm suits by just soaking them in the water and slipping into them while standing in 3' of water with no lube at all- but just try doing that while ice diving!:head

I also have a 5mm suit with a nylon inner lining and smooth skin outer, it's actually reversible. It slips on easy without any lube at all, but it does NOT keep me as warm as any of my other unlined suits do. As a a matter of fact, if I just turn it inside out, and use a little lube to put it on, I stay MUCH warmer and can double, or even triple, my time in the water with the exact same suit on.

I leave the environmental suit lube impact statements for OSHA to figure out, but the little bit I use makes my suit much easier to put on and pollutes the water a lot less than any fisherman on the lake using an outboard. :vangry

I have noticed that all of the spray on linings (gold, silver, copper, etc) seem to wear off over time and you'll end up using lube on the suit in the long run if you dive it long enough. Since open cell is cheaper, and warmer, there's nothing wrong with going with it right off the bat.

As far as custom suit fit goes I have tried some of those tricks, taking 1/4" off the wrist and ankle measurements, before and I would say not to do that with Elios since they are so good at cutting suits. When it comes to Dive Skins I can't tell you what to do since my suit was cut so crappy I'll never get a suit from them again.:rcard

I watched all of Elios's videos and had my wife measure me up for my suit. Elios didn't like two of the measurements and we re-did them until they liked the numbers they saw. They must have some way to figure it out because my suit cam back perfect. Now I know that they keep my numbers on file and whenever I decide to get a new suit they can just pull up the numbers and ask me what I want it made out of.

Take the time to get the measurements down and you'll be very happy with the end product. If it's a warm(er) water suit nylon lining on the inside is fine but if your swimming in the cold stuff go for some type of open cell or open cell with a spray on coating- you'll be MUCH warmer.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it saves someone else some money, and trouble.

Jon

 

[harbour seal]

All measurements should be taken with you in a normal fashion, but must be done by another person, not yourself. The beauty about the Haiwa and Yamamoto rubber is the degree that they stretch and allow you to bulk up before a dive with big breaths and all manner of contortions.

actually, i had my girlfriend measured me....but after i typed that out the first time it seemed pretty rife for zingers.

 

[icarus pacific]

Zingers? You got it!

I hope she did better on you than me. :t

And kudos to Jon's post. Reason enough to bestow some karma and heapin' dose of smooth.

 

[harbour seal]

wow...thanks for the excellent replies everyone!

i am amazed once again by the wealth of information---literally at our fingertips.

there are too many to thank but wow, simply wow.

sean
vancouver, canada

 

[harbour seal]

harbour seal i am ordering one too through Elios, a smooth skin, I got Paul (my better half) to take my measurements and they have come back with errors, telling me to follow the real player videos for examples... no-one at home now to redo it so will have to do it at the gym. i guess when they computerised my measurements they weren't sure about the breast size rofl

cant wait to receive it, swap photos with you when you get yours

island sands,

sounds like an offer i simply cannot pass up....yoyza.
i will certainly hold you to it and will send a shot when i get the suit.
oh, i am more than just a wee bit excited--my first suit.

cheers,
sean
vancouver, canada

 

[harbour seal]

Re: elios Tailor made -- need measurement advice

I've had a few suits with different linings (gold, black shadow, silver, open cell) and I needed some type of lube to get into them without ripping all the hair off my body. :crutch I "have" been able to get into my 3mm suits by just soaking them in the water and slipping into them while standing in 3' of water with no lube at all- but just try doing that while ice diving!:head

I also have a 5mm suit with a nylon inner lining and smooth skin outer, it's actually reversible. It slips on easy without any lube at all, but it does NOT keep me as warm as any of my other unlined suits do. As a a matter of fact, if I just turn it inside out, and use a little lube to put it on, I stay MUCH warmer and can double, or even triple, my time in the water with the exact same suit on.

I leave the environmental suit lube impact statements for OSHA to figure out, but the little bit I use makes my suit much easier to put on and pollutes the water a lot less than any fisherman on the lake using an outboard. :vangry

I have noticed that all of the spray on linings (gold, silver, copper, etc) seem to wear off over time and you'll end up using lube on the suit in the long run if you dive it long enough. Since open cell is cheaper, and warmer, there's nothing wrong with going with it right off the bat.

As far as custom suit fit goes I have tried some of those tricks, taking 1/4" off the wrist and ankle measurements, before and I would say not to do that with Elios since they are so good at cutting suits. When it comes to Dive Skins I can't tell you what to do since my suit was cut so crappy I'll never get a suit from them again.:rcard

I watched all of Elios's videos and had my wife measure me up for my suit. Elios didn't like two of the measurements and we re-did them until they liked the numbers they saw. They must have some way to figure it out because my suit cam back perfect. Now I know that they keep my numbers on file and whenever I decide to get a new suit they can just pull up the numbers and ask me what I want it made out of.

Take the time to get the measurements down and you'll be very happy with the end product. If it's a warm(er) water suit nylon lining on the inside is fine but if your swimming in the cold stuff go for some type of open cell or open cell with a spray on coating- you'll be MUCH warmer.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it saves someone else some money, and trouble.

Jon

jon,
kablam! amazing info once again.
thank you so much.

you are most definately saving me a bucket full of trouble and money too.

cheers and thanks again,

sean
vancouver, canada

ps. karma for everyone in this thread....thank you everyone

 

[trux]

Lube Or Not To Lube

I am sorry to be insisting, but I do not want to let the topic go without explaining better my reasons.

I applaud to all who use small amounts of exclusively biodegradable hair conditioner. Unfortunately, from the experience I know that most freedivers use rather big quantities (1 liter or more) of cheap and quite non-degradable products. And even the biodegradable products are often not as biodegradable as they claim. Using it home is certainly adding to the pollution too, but at least part of it can be filtered by the water cleaning station that processes your sewage. Pouring it directly into the lake, quarry, river, or even ocean represents much worse damage and should be avoided if not necessary. Well, in lakes, and other water basins with limited water flow, it should be avoided always - even if you feel it is necessary.

If you look at regulations of many natural reserves, you can find that using shampoo, conditioners, and detergents is strictly forbidden. That's not without a reason. Besides other chemicals, shampoo and conditioners commonly contain nonylphenol, which is known to disrupt fish reproduction and growth. I recommend to read the document Alkylphenols in Biosolids that speaks about it in details. There is just a short quote from the article here:

Why are some people concerned about alkylphenols?
AP ethoxylates and alkylphenols are widely and safely used in personal and health-care products. Issues about alkylphenols in the environment have been raised recently, primarily in Europe, where some governmental agencies and researchers have speculated that alkylphenols are endocrine disruptors (chemicals that interfere with natural hormones) that may cause reproductive and growth problems to aquatic life, particularly fish.

Where do alkylphenols come from?​

AP ethoxylates are found in a wide range of consumer and commercial products. The products with the highest amounts of AP ethoxylates include face makeup, fragrances, hair bleach, hair conditioner, hair dye, shampoo, manicure products, skin moisturizers and cleansers, and liquid laundry detergents.

There are many more scientific documents speaking about the negative influence of nonylphenol on fish reproduction. Some of them bring quite specific examples, and more up-to-date information than the general document quoted above. If you are interested, check out some them here.

I know, there are bigger polluters, and other chemical agents causing harm to the fish and aquatic life, but still - why my god should I add to it by lubing when I can get a suit that satisfies all my thermic needs and can be easily and comfortably put on without lubing? Where is the logic of pouring hectoliters per year of lube on myself and into the nature when there is absolutely no need for it?

Well, OK, if you are diving under ice, or mostly in cold waters, then I understand that the added thermic insulation of the open-cell suit is welcome, and hence lubing is unavoidable. However, I am pretty sure that big part of freedivers dive mostly in acceptable temperatures where a suit with inside coating can be used. And those, who dive in winter as well as in summer, they usually have at least two suits anyway - so again why not reducing the use of chemicals at least in summer - it's not only better for the nature, but for your skin too.

 

[harbour seal]

Regardless harbour seal, make real sure you lube the daylights out of the thing when putting it on. Keyz Kraze winner stylin' Jay Styron happily put a major vent in his Elios while rolling it over his torso, and even in Florida, it put a chill in his day.

I thought the coating meant I could put mine on with no lube! It was a completely miserable experience that would've blown chunks out of the suit if it weren't nylon on the outside. I nearly dislocated my shoulder,was able to repair the small tears that resulted and the hair that was torn out has grown back...

thanks boys, for the reminding me of the true importance of proper lubrication.

when i get my suit i promise i will be one slick willy.

your soon to be well greased pen pal,
sean

 

[Mr. X]

Some more suggestions:

- take each measurement 2 or 3 times, ideally on different days at different times of day/temperature/etc. Then discard any obviously wrong measurements & average the rest. If you really want to be sure, also measure both sides of your body (my right calf was a full inch larger than my left) & average the results.

- Make sure you leave enough room with the neck measurement (may be round up or take the larger measurements). I allowed an extra 1cm above average measurement (which is just a little more that the largest measurement) & it is seems good. Apparently a tight neck can cause choking response. Elios will probably take this into account as long as you measure it correctly.

- I err'd on the high side for ankle & wrist lengths -- it was unnecessary though, Elios get it right.

- re. measurement, just follow the video. Chest can be tricky because it depends on your state of breath, & the state of your lat & chest muscles. Just stand normally, relaxed & have someone measure your around the middle of the chest (not right in the armpit -- which can be a lot wider -- tailors seem to take that extra into account with the joint).

Re. lube, I use cheap supermarket hair conditioner which doesn't contain any obvious nasties (like formaldehyde). One bottle will probably last me 10 years or more - it goes a long way. I would prefer to use something organic though. Something antibacterial (tea tree oil?) might be good - at least for the after-swim rinse - but might react.

 

[marginatus]

About lube... has anyone tryed subskin?
http://www.subskin.it

 

[island_sands]

harbour seal you are on....
i definitely need lube - i have an Imersion 7mm and it definitely needs assistance. good old speedo shampoo/conditioner works for me...

"Slip Sliding Away...." in the words of Paul Simon...

 

[icarus pacific]

7 mils in the Red Sea??!

Crikey! (That's Aussie for "WHAT?") A 7 mil suit over there could pass for a BCD! Especially if she weren't as developed... :inlove

Here's the dealio trux and others out there lurking and waiting for me to go off: If you want to or need to lube up your suit, smooth-side in or otherwise, have at it. But just as with everything else that you say or do, in the water and on the beach or the road or the bedroom, and this is where it's gets a tad bit preachy, :ycard do so with an eye towards those around you, or the next guy in line or for the area as a whole.

Taking the time to think of the next lucky sod, though in reality it rarely comes back to you in ways that are recognizable, will eventually make it better for you.

While I certainly don't advocate leaving a slick on the side of the road or the pool (1-2 liters?? ) if you need to pack a spraybottle with some diluted wonder tonic so you can slip that bad thing on, have at it. If your choice is to go with a nylon-in suit so you don't have to sweat the donning, well good on you too. In the end we all get into our suits and isn't that the big deal? The more important thing I think is to do it and everything in such a way as it reflects good on you and the sport.

And now, I'll leave this soapbox and wonder how it went for three pages. BTW muchos for the rep points harbour seal.

 

[island_sands]

i bought it for the winter.. rofl the water temps drop to 19degC! that's COLD for a tropical bare bum like me

Will let you know when i have problems "getting it on" and the suit too...

 

[harbour seal]

i bought it for the winter.. rofl the water temps drop to 19degC! that's COLD for a tropical bare bum like me

Will let you know when i have problems "getting it on" and the suit too...

wow, now that sounds like a nice warm bath.

here in vangrouver winter means 4-6 deg C water--- mostly i am hoping my 6mm jacket 5mm pants will keep my "boys" from freezing to death. the rest of me actually likes the cold water.

sean