empty lungs 02 static

[Awicenna]

hi,
general question: has empty lungs o2 static sense? my hypothesis is this kind of static can be more effective, less time-consuming and more comfortable in comparison with standard 02 static.
what do u think? what is your exprecience about it? what are advantages and disadvantages of such a exercise?

 

[J Campbell]

I don't think empty lung statics are more comfortable than full lung.

 

[Awicenna]

by the most comfortable static I mean the static that:
1. is much shorter but creates the same end situation (low o2 saturation), for example it could be 2 min instead of 5min;
2. can be also easier mentally if preceded by hyperventilation.
If the aim of o2 tables is to expose you to low o2 saturation this method can be more effective.

 

[cdavis]

definitely take less time and much less comfortable. I do several every morning in combination with diaphram stretches to train dive reflex and lung conditioning for FRC diving, but don't even try to push until it gets excruciating. If you can stand it, empty lung statics are probably good training for static.

You are correct that emptys get you to low 02 saturation much more quickly that full. However, it hurts like heck. You might try statics at FRC or slightly less, also get to low o2 quicker that full , but are much more comfortable than completely empty.

 

[growingupninja]

Empty lung work will not train CO2 tolerance, which is usually a limiting factor for newer divers unless like Connor you dive on an exhale.

 

[cdavis]

Lance, could you expand on exhales and c02 tolerance. I had thought that empty statics allow fast buildup of co2 (little place in the lungs to store it) and that is why empty statics became so uncomfortable, so fast. Again if you can stand it, that seems like an effective mechanism to train c02 tolerance. Why not?

 

[growingupninja]

Lance, could you expand on exhales and c02 tolerance. I had thought that empty statics allow fast buildup of co2 (little place in the lungs to store it) and that is why empty statics became so uncomfortable, so fast. Again if you can stand it, that seems like an effective mechanism to train c02 tolerance. Why not?

Sure, once the body goes into dive mode (reduced HR, vasoconstriction, contractions, etc), metabolism changes and it produces less C02 across the board. Empty lung work puts most people into dive mode much sooner. The amount of air in the lung would have very little bearing because CO2 perfuses very easily into tissues and blood, I don't think the lung is a primary storage area although it used for exchange/offgassing.

On a more practical note, when I was newer to real training I experimented with some weeks of heavy empty lung dynamic training... Saw very little real world benefit with my diving until I switched to more full lung dynamic (I dive on a full lung as you know). For more advanced divers or those who dive on an exhale I think it is a good idea since red blood cell count can be a limiting factor for them. In training these days I do about 15% to 35% exhale, usually forced exhale as opposed to FRC.

 

[cdavis]

ok, that all makes sense, but then why do empties get so uncomfortable so fast? It feels to me like C02, but is it?

Empties get uncomfortable so fast that it seems like something else is going on beside c02 or 02 tolerance, but I haven't a clue what that might be. I'm doing them, combined with diaphragm and intercostal stretches, primarily to maintain chest flexibility for FRC diving, and I think that multiple, frequent engagement of the dive reflex should promote quick blood shift in real diving . Works great for flexibility, but not sure about that last a point.

15 to 35 % forced exhale? Is that from a full inhale? as in more than FRC or below FRC? Sitting on the surface, no gear, about what percentage of full lung is your FRC? Mine is close to empty, much less than a quart left. In the water, it is empty.

 

[growingupninja]

When the body switches out of aerobic metabolism it is going to be generating less CO2 and more lactic waste... CO2 is byproduct of aerobic work, and when muscles do not have enough O2 they use a lactic energy pathway, hence the discomfort on the FRC holds or dynamics--body is lactic faster.

Yes, when I do empty lung drills I am forcing out more air than on FRC (passive exhale). Even after full forced exhale+negative packing there is still gonna be some air in the lung, it is how we are made, humans can't actually force all the air out of the lung. I think very few mammals besides birds have that ability.

 

[growingupninja]

ok, that all makes sense, but then why do empties get so uncomfortable so fast? It feels to me like C02, but is it?

Empties get uncomfortable so fast that it seems like something else is going on beside c02 or 02 tolerance, but I haven't a clue what that might be. I'm doing them, combined with diaphragm and intercostal stretches, primarily to maintain chest flexibility for FRC diving, and I think that multiple, frequent engagement of the dive reflex should promote quick blood shift in real diving . Works great for flexibility, but not sure about that last a point.

15 to 35 % forced exhale? Is that from a full inhale? as in more than FRC or below FRC? Sitting on the surface, no gear, about what percentage of full lung is your FRC? Mine is close to empty, much less than a quart left. In the water, it is empty.

Oh wait, maybe I was unclear, I meant 15% to 35% of my training dives/holds are forced exhale, done after a full breath. The remaining dives/holds are done full lung.

 

[Jo_duiker]

I can't add anything on the (dis?)advantages of empty lung statics, but here's an example of what you can do FRC statics with only one breath between them. Every breathhold lasts until you have done a number of contractions. This example is "intense" as the guy in video describes it. I'd call it more like "trying to hurt yourself badly", but who am I?


Needless to say this should not be done alone, but with a spotter/dedicated buddy.

So, the best thing to do is to lower the number of contractions. (Still: not without a buddy!) I like this one: a warmup with the same principle, but going to "only" 2 contractions, repeating this for five minutes at a depth of 1 m. That works for me.
Oh, and that's not on totally empty lungs, but very mild FRC. (Slightly above it. Don't laugh.)