Ermes-Sub "Avatar" handle with latest version of Double Roller trigger mechanism

[Leche Parr]

Ermes-Sub have now released parts for their "Avatar" eurogun, the main interest being the new handle which is built around a refined version of their Double Roller trigger mechanism. Here are some photos of it, this one has white trim for the soft grip handle and butt pad, and there are other options in green and red, being the Italian national colours. There is also a two band muzzle available, but no sign yet of the intended barrel, although the handle can be used with other barrels of 26 mm and 26.5 mm internal diameter as the barrel sealing "O" ring has two alternate positions on the front boss.

The handle has a switchable safety lever which seems to be intended as a lock-out when rigging and banding up your gun rather than being used as a safety, hence rather than “S” for safe it is marked as “L” when the trigger is trapped at the top and the gun cannot release. A set of diagrams shows how it works.
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Note in this last photo you can see a window cut in the sidewall of the metal housing to reduce its weight, this window appears black and is just visible in the sear box mouth area now that the sear lever nose has dropped with the trigger being pulled. The sear lever has no biasing spring, it falls under the action of gravity or the force of the spear being propelled from the gun by the action of the bands retracting from their stretched state.

Hey, Pete just wondering if you could tell me what the offset is for the Avatar. I have a Cressi tube that I'm looking to throw this on, and I haven't been able to find that spec. I know the Cressi tube has an offset of 2.3, I if I'm not mistaken.

 

[popgun pete]

The long forward ribbed boss at its base is just on 26 mm diameter and the small track length for the shaft to sit on is 3 mm elevated from the top of that, so that is 16 mm from the axis of the barrel tube.

 

[Leche Parr]

Thanks Pete for the reply.
A friend of mine brought in the Avatar handle for his new gun build, so I was able to check it out up close. I wasn't a huge fan of the rectangular gap in the center for the camera mount, but the handle seemed rigid enough and with a roller, you have forces pulling from top and bottom. And I wish the bottom hook was deeper or could hold another wishbone.

Another friend just built a double roller using the Avatar handle.
I'd consider it if I end up building a roller one day.

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Hey, mate just on the off chance that you might know. You mentioned being concerned about the rectangular cutout and I also had the same thought. I had an issue with my last gun's handle (Cressi Cherokee) bowing upwards when loaded. Do you know if your friend had any similar issues with the build quality of the handle or is there enough material there for bowing to not be an issue?

 

[popgun pete]

Bowing if it occurs is over the length of the barrel tube, I don’t think the slot in the handle would show any movement as that area is very rigid. Any problems would only show long term if they are to occur. As nothing has been reported yet and guns have been in use there seems to be nothing to worry about.

 

[jkb7]

The Ermes Avatar is/feel smaller than Pathos D'Angelo 1 handle?

I have small hands ‍ and searching the best solution for the new speargun

 

[popgun pete]

The grip section is much the same as most spearguns, the MVD handle is slightly smaller in thickness, but there is very little in it.

 

[jkb7]

The grip section is much the same as most spearguns, the MVD handle is slightly smaller in thickness, but there is very little in it.

I use Merou ( is identical to aimrite hamdle) and i Want something smaller...

 

[popgun pete]

Out of curiosity I weighed my old Aquacraft handle which has an “O" ring seal on the front boss and found that it weighed 257 grams. Compare that with the Avatar handle and it weighs 358 grams which is quite a bit more. Putting a metal cassette in a tube gun handle has a weight penalty and makes such a gun tend to be tail heavy. Sea Hornet were one of the first to have a metal cassette in their tube gun handle, the Pacific, but they soon switched it over to a plastic version. The original all metal mechanism had been designed as a mortice mech for a timber gun where there was plenty of timber to offset the extra weight in water. A tube gun does not have such reserve of buoyancy unless you fit it with a buoyancy bulb or a float type sleeve jacket.

 

[popgun pete]

For those that don't remember Aquacraft the guns were eventually taken over by Bandito who are actually still around using that same handle and mech. It is a good handle and has a good cam lock mech, which is why it does not need a metal cassette. Sportsways used the same innards in a more angular handle shape styling-wise, but it worked in exactly the way.

PATCO also use the same handle in their band gun.

Sportsways gun is same gun wearing a different dress.

 

[popgun pete]

Where the roller tooth makes large trigger mechanism leverage or gearing gains.

 

[popgun pete]

And to spell it out for those who may be wondering what I am talking about.

Note the system could use something else besides a roller, it just needs to be free floating and fit the spear tail notch and also an angled "tooth" in the sear lever arm which here is a semi-circular dip cutout. A roller is the simplest shape for eurogun spear tail notches which are that shape anyway.

 

[popgun pete]

For example.

 

[Sorcerer]

So we have made a decision to make two 140cm custom carbon blue water guns with ermes handles,
Now I have a bit of a headacke becouse in the begining I was planning to keep it simple 2x14/2x16mm gun with 8mm shaft, but something totally evolved my idea in favor of double roller head in 14mm.

Now the biggest ass question I have, how shall I rig the bands to the handle as there are some doubts on spearboard whether or not the plastic line holder beneath can survive 2 bands or have enough space to fit both dyneemas there.

So what are the options? I am kinda in favor of NOT drilling the carbon to install the holder but I might be made to do it.
The coatesmans rubber mounts are neat but they are fit for RA guns and I have yet to get the answer from them if they would retrofit to Ermes.
Any options? I really tried to find an ermess handle with double roller head to find how someone fixed the issue but so far to not avail.

Can the holes be used as rubber holding point by just passing the dyneema through the handle?

 

[popgun pete]

Best way is to try and see what happens rather than anticipate problems, you can always add to it with a hook on the plastic handle. Check out post #11 earlier on this thread.

Or like this.

 

[wahoo1911]

Since these Ermes trigger mechs for the D'angelo 2 are not recommended and discontinued, I would like to add this avatar handle to my pathos 120 carbon. Is it smooth? Regarding the offset on the barrel, pathos has 2.7mm

 

[wahoo1911]

Since these Ermes trigger mechs for the D'angelo 2 are not recommended and discontinued, I would like to add this avatar handle to my pathos 120 carbon. Is it smooth? Regarding the offset on the barrel, pathos has 2.7mm

Okay I just spoke to Mario, recommended is 2.65 offset, so the pathos with 2.7mm is just perfect, might help someone taking that decision.

 

[popgun pete]

The Ermes Sub is smooth but is a relatively heavy handle, you could check the weight of both, the Ermes Sub Avatar weight is mentioned on this thread, you will have to weigh your existing handle. There may be a slightly lighter Avatar handle with a bit of metal reduction in the mechanism with windows and slimmer section parts, but I have not seen it.

 

[JVerne818]

Hey! I'm looking at buying an Ermes Avatar handle, but I can't find anywhere the following dimension: shaft length when secured in the mechanism until the beginning of the barrel. Would anyone be able to provide such a measurement? Thank you!

 

[popgun pete]

Hey! I'm looking at buying an Ermes Avatar handle, but I can't find anywhere the following dimension: shaft length when secured in the mechanism until the beginning of the barrel. Would anyone be able to provide such a measurement? Thank you!

It is 12 cm.

 

[JVerne818]

It is 12 cm.

Thank you!