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Ethics of spearfishing competitions
- Thread starterBen Gowland
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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I envy the USA its parks and wildlife management resources. The US is one of the few countries where you will actually see park rangers in the parks, visible evidence that someone is at times observing. Up here in Canada the budgets for parks and wildlife are so tight that the only "enforcement" you're ever likely to encounter are hand painted signs and the disapproving glares of your fellow fishermen / divers. As a result, where large lingcod used to be commonplace all through the Howe Sound, the area is starting to resemble a wasteland. Mostly through boat fishermen it has to be said. STill, props to the States and its comparatively big budget. They're way ahead of most other countries in terms of enlightened conservation.
ickledevil.
B.s.a. competitions U.K.Fish disposal is the responsibility of the organising club not individuals participating.To generalise there are only six competitions per year,(four 2005) with an average of forty or less spearos.Unwanted fish as you call it (wrasse etc.) are given to Professional pot fishermen Who gladly take it saves them netting for bait.Ask the French if wrasse are poor eating,Bouillabaisse lovely grub
B.s.a. competitions U.K.Fish disposal is the responsibility of the organising club not individuals participating.To generalise there are only six competitions per year,(four 2005) with an average of forty or less spearos.Unwanted fish as you call it (wrasse etc.) are given to Professional pot fishermen Who gladly take it saves them netting for bait.Ask the French if wrasse are poor eating,Bouillabaisse lovely grub
I wouldn't enter any spearfishing competition with the way they're measured at present, first of all because I'd just feel wrong about killing so many wrasse and secondly because I believe it goes against why I started spearfishing in the first place -- to appreciate my surroundings and get a glimpse of the rest of the world below the water.
I don't do it to impress other people and although it's nice to gain some admiration for what you do, I would much prefer to gain that admiration by having a nice fish on the table for dinner between some fellow divers, friends and family than going out to shoot a lot of fish for a magazine photo.
Where I go spearfishing during the summer months, we are frowned upon by locals whenever a spearo comes off the boat and the grumbling begins amongst them. 99% of spearo's that go to the same place as me during the summer will not find the locals to be of any help because they will be too apprehensive of you and your intentions.
It's only after diving there for 10+yrs now that I've been accepted because they know what I'm like when I get in the water and have a respect for the sea and its ecosystem. Most importantly, they know what I take and always eat what I catch. So many people are there, shooting anything that moves and it just brings a tear to my eye and that of the locals (who are VERY protective of their livelihood - fishing!)
I suppose the other thing that helped was I never asked the locals about good spots because I know how protective they are of them. I did my own homework and discovery of that playground and now I get fishermen asking me where I've seen the fish at! I've even taken some of them out snorkelling with me just so they could admire some fish in their natural habitat and they were shocked to discover that I dived a lot without my speargun purely for admiration and observation.
Back to the topic -- I think competitions need to have different ratings for their fish to stop the mass slaughtering that does happen at any given site at present. You will never see a spearfishing competition where I dive during the Summer -- ever and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
sidenote: Wrasse do make good eating and here's a nice tip I got from some locals in France (go for the orange coloured ones, the bigger the better, steer clear of green -- orange has nicer flesh)
I eat them but it's very rare, sometimes a local will ask me for one and I'll be only too happy to oblige. Last time I had Wrasse was during the summer in france and it wasn't cooked (really), it was made a la cubaine and a la tahitienne (different mixes of oils, vinegar, lime, lemon, fresh veg with some mackerel) and it was delicious. Time before that it was cooked in an oven with tomatoes, onions and other mixed veg/spices and that wasn't too bad either!
I'll be laying the smackdown on anybody else that says wrasse don't make good eating :ko
I don't do it to impress other people and although it's nice to gain some admiration for what you do, I would much prefer to gain that admiration by having a nice fish on the table for dinner between some fellow divers, friends and family than going out to shoot a lot of fish for a magazine photo.
Where I go spearfishing during the summer months, we are frowned upon by locals whenever a spearo comes off the boat and the grumbling begins amongst them. 99% of spearo's that go to the same place as me during the summer will not find the locals to be of any help because they will be too apprehensive of you and your intentions.
It's only after diving there for 10+yrs now that I've been accepted because they know what I'm like when I get in the water and have a respect for the sea and its ecosystem. Most importantly, they know what I take and always eat what I catch. So many people are there, shooting anything that moves and it just brings a tear to my eye and that of the locals (who are VERY protective of their livelihood - fishing!)
I suppose the other thing that helped was I never asked the locals about good spots because I know how protective they are of them. I did my own homework and discovery of that playground and now I get fishermen asking me where I've seen the fish at! I've even taken some of them out snorkelling with me just so they could admire some fish in their natural habitat and they were shocked to discover that I dived a lot without my speargun purely for admiration and observation.
Back to the topic -- I think competitions need to have different ratings for their fish to stop the mass slaughtering that does happen at any given site at present. You will never see a spearfishing competition where I dive during the Summer -- ever and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
sidenote: Wrasse do make good eating and here's a nice tip I got from some locals in France (go for the orange coloured ones, the bigger the better, steer clear of green -- orange has nicer flesh)
I eat them but it's very rare, sometimes a local will ask me for one and I'll be only too happy to oblige. Last time I had Wrasse was during the summer in france and it wasn't cooked (really), it was made a la cubaine and a la tahitienne (different mixes of oils, vinegar, lime, lemon, fresh veg with some mackerel) and it was delicious. Time before that it was cooked in an oven with tomatoes, onions and other mixed veg/spices and that wasn't too bad either!
I'll be laying the smackdown on anybody else that says wrasse don't make good eating :ko
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I respect your views, its good to see a responsible attitude towards the underwater environment. Just to let know the BSA has reduced the number of comps in England this year to 4 seperate dives two of which are on consequative days, so infact if any one wanted to take part in only means three potential trips away. The issue about wrasse has been addressed I think by leaving the decision on if they are to be allowed (Wrasse) at individual comps to the committe on the day. I feel that this will end the shooting of wrasse, it had already been agreed last year that in environmentally sensitive areas, or where there was the potential for conflict with the public that they would not be shot anyway.
For peoples information in Sussex the Sussex Spearfing club have entered into a voulntary agreement with the local seafisheries committe that Wrasse and Conger eels will not be shot (Silver eels are a river species are illegal to shot anyway) and that the minimum size for shot bass is 45cm there is also a catch limit of 10 fish per diver.
For peoples information in Sussex the Sussex Spearfing club have entered into a voulntary agreement with the local seafisheries committe that Wrasse and Conger eels will not be shot (Silver eels are a river species are illegal to shot anyway) and that the minimum size for shot bass is 45cm there is also a catch limit of 10 fish per diver.
Bass are limited to 2 per bag per angler here or one specimen fish and I can only assume the same applies to us spearo's! A bit OTT if you ask me but then again on the flip side -- good for preservation.
Personally I wouldn't go for a competition. Not my scene.
Maybe there will be a greyhound and hare approach in the future whereby there is an electronic robotic fish that all the comp spearos have to search for...
As far as food spearing goes I think that if you are a beginner then you have your seasonal catch limited anyway due to inexperience. As you get better you obviously have spent longer in the water taking many hours in the sea to appreciate the environment and consider spearfishing as an activity.
As such you are more likely to be sensible about taking fish (taking life...).
One decent bass is enough to put a smile on my face for a session - why ask for more. In this age of speed / consumption / quantity I find it good to seek more basic enjoyment.
I tend to steer clear of those who like massive stringers of small pollack and wrasse and the like. But hey - my choice.
As for wrasse - an Italian came over for a weekend of spearfishing (and at the end of November too ?! Thought it would have been the other way around ! I wish - but maybe a Sardinia/Corsica trip...) anyway he loved them and cooked one with cold-cooking - ie marinating as Paddy describes above and the other slow cooked in tomatoes again as described... Pretty good by all accounts.
Ed
Maybe there will be a greyhound and hare approach in the future whereby there is an electronic robotic fish that all the comp spearos have to search for...
As far as food spearing goes I think that if you are a beginner then you have your seasonal catch limited anyway due to inexperience. As you get better you obviously have spent longer in the water taking many hours in the sea to appreciate the environment and consider spearfishing as an activity.
As such you are more likely to be sensible about taking fish (taking life...).
One decent bass is enough to put a smile on my face for a session - why ask for more. In this age of speed / consumption / quantity I find it good to seek more basic enjoyment.
I tend to steer clear of those who like massive stringers of small pollack and wrasse and the like. But hey - my choice.
As for wrasse - an Italian came over for a weekend of spearfishing (and at the end of November too ?! Thought it would have been the other way around ! I wish - but maybe a Sardinia/Corsica trip...) anyway he loved them and cooked one with cold-cooking - ie marinating as Paddy describes above and the other slow cooked in tomatoes again as described... Pretty good by all accounts.
Ed
Just to clarify Bass in Ireland for Anglers are limited to 2(two) per day and minimum size is 40cm.
There is no mention in the Legislation regarding Specimen fish.
Also there is no mention of Spearfishermen/women so I would say going by other fisheries legislation than Spearfishermen are not legislated for.
I have asked Sea fishery officers and they have told me that there is NO legislation in regard to Spearos.
There is no mention in the Legislation regarding Specimen fish.
Also there is no mention of Spearfishermen/women so I would say going by other fisheries legislation than Spearfishermen are not legislated for.
I have asked Sea fishery officers and they have told me that there is NO legislation in regard to Spearos.
Just to make it clear the 10 fish bag limit is 10 fish of any species, not 10 of each species.
Huan said:
Huan, this is similar to the replies that I got from several governing bodies that I emailed, phoned and harranged to try and get some answers. Should have made that clear with regards the catch limits on them, thanks.
Last time I enquired about anything from the irish underwater council they told me that spearfishing was not popular here, that there were no rules apart from the same snorkelling rules applying to scuba-divers applying to us -- go figure! I mean does this give me free reign to go and spear lobster and bag as many bass as I feel like bagging? :vangry
Kev - that sounds more reasonable to me
Regarding Comhairle fó Thuinn or Irish Underwater Council basically I stay well away from them.
I rang one time asking about support for an Irish team to go to the Euro spearfishing champs, the woman on the end of the phone sounded like I had asked where I could go and chop up kittens! VERY negative regarding spearfishing.
I reminded her that the affiiliated body for CFT was in fact CMAS which also runs the spearing comps in europe, did not want to know.
anyway regarding bag limits for fish -may guess is that there is no way they can do you for anything because you are not an angler.
Regarding taking shellfish if you are not using breathing apparatus you are fine.
let no-one tell you any different. I have the legislation.scallops oysters, cockles etc all fine same with crayfish and lobster.
I rang one time asking about support for an Irish team to go to the Euro spearfishing champs, the woman on the end of the phone sounded like I had asked where I could go and chop up kittens! VERY negative regarding spearfishing.
I reminded her that the affiiliated body for CFT was in fact CMAS which also runs the spearing comps in europe, did not want to know.
anyway regarding bag limits for fish -may guess is that there is no way they can do you for anything because you are not an angler.
Regarding taking shellfish if you are not using breathing apparatus you are fine.
let no-one tell you any different. I have the legislation.scallops oysters, cockles etc all fine same with crayfish and lobster.
Chaps - its the same in the uk - speak to your longstanding BSAC spokesperson about spearfishing and they'll spit at you.
If you look back at the very fisrst post in this thread you'll see why.
One day we'll get proper regulation.
At the moment, the only regulation is:
No spearing in freshwater.
No speared fish can be sold commercially.
No salmon or sea trout can be caught.
If you look back at the very fisrst post in this thread you'll see why.
One day we'll get proper regulation.
At the moment, the only regulation is:
No spearing in freshwater.
No speared fish can be sold commercially.
No salmon or sea trout can be caught.
old dave said:
I wouldn't dare spear one and risk damaging or losing that tasty flesh, i'd use my hands alright (only thing I use my spear for is scratching at their hole to see if they'll come out and play). Was more interested in the "what if" factor as I suspected that you might not be allowed spear them but taking them by hand could be allowed
I can't believe chomhairle fo thuinn are so against us when they're supposed to be our governing body, probably a bunch of wannabe hippies that throw litter around the place anyway :rcard
sidenote: I'd love to spear a salmon or sea trout
CAn I ask about scuba-collecting vs freediving-collecting of shellfish/crustaceans ?
I don't know the law here in Guernsey (will look it up if / when time)...
Anyway - can I collect crayfish, lobster, crab, scallop, oyster legally ?
I never see scallop but all the scuba guys here always come back with a bunch - is that legal or not ?
Ok if you don't know about Guernsey - is it legal in the UK ? (for scuba people to collect scallops and lobster and crayfish.)
Just curious - might have to make me a 'citizens arrest' if I see a scuba diver with a particularly nice load of scallops
Ed
I don't know the law here in Guernsey (will look it up if / when time)...
Anyway - can I collect crayfish, lobster, crab, scallop, oyster legally ?
I never see scallop but all the scuba guys here always come back with a bunch - is that legal or not ?
Ok if you don't know about Guernsey - is it legal in the UK ? (for scuba people to collect scallops and lobster and crayfish.)
Just curious - might have to make me a 'citizens arrest' if I see a scuba diver with a particularly nice load of scallops
Ed
old dave said:
I can only guess and assume I am right (based on other countries and their regulations) that it is illegal to take any shellfish while on scuba but that you may while snorkelling/freediving.
If you want to have a bit of fun with them and get some answers then I suggest the following plan of action for some mild entertainment
Get a camera, any camera - some disposable jobby will do just dandy. Next time you see them coming out of the water, go over to them and photograph them coming up with bags of scallops or whatever it is they're taking and pretend to be dead serious even if you do want to burst into fits of laughter.
Confront them immediately and say something along the lines of, "you know it's illegal to take shellfish while on scuba and you could all be prosecuted to the full extent of the law?" Or whatever seems fitting (god I can be evil)
You'll be able to tell instantly whether or not it's legal by their reaction. rofl
Bringing back lobster and other crustaceans gets me a little hot under the collar. Scoping lobster holes or getting a buddy to do so while on scuba and then going freediving after them at a later date -- ok so it's sly and sneaky but at least it's fair game.
wellpaddythefrog said:I can't believe chomhairle fo thuinn are so against us when they're supposed to be our governing body, probably a bunch of wannabe hippies that throw litter around the place anyway :rcard
sidenote: I'd love to spear a salmon or sea trout
I know for a fact that these so called environmentally friendly scuba heads are big into chopping chunks off wrecks.
Portholes shell-casings , etc etc are all considered fair game by a lot of these types.and thats not even taking into account that a lot of wrecks are war graves.
I have no sympathy when every so often a trimix diver finds himself on the surface after blacking out while swinging a chisel and hammer.
and one guy tried to tell me that spearing fish was wrong! :vangry He was lucky to walk away whole!
Salmon and seatrout we found some that had escaped from a farm and shot em. POWERFUL but as greasy as a fords engine :yack
Yup, sounds pretty typical alright..
I'm curious now, how did he think it was wrong or did he just say, "it's wrong, you shouldn't be doing that you big meanie! They're so pretty and colourful, I'm here to admire them and you're taking them away from me."
My personal favourite is when I arrive at a nice spot, only to discover the water is filthy because a bunch of scuba newbies have just been there for 45mins training at 3-5M depth and stirred it into a vegetable soup learning the basics of bouyancy with the stab :waterwork
I dive with one or two folks from a scuba club who also like to spear and it's just comedy gold sometimes. Most of the scuba folks will be going on about how it's wrong for me to want to bag this massive lobster they're all talking about because they want to admire him everytime they dive. Then when I bag some nice fish or other shellfish, they all want a piece of it -- hypocrisy or what :vangry
It's like I'm captain hook and they're peter pan who can do no evil
Then we go for a walk at low tide on the rocks and people are turning rocks over and not putting them back in their place -- I give up :ko
bored at work if you couldn't tell :wave
I'm curious now, how did he think it was wrong or did he just say, "it's wrong, you shouldn't be doing that you big meanie! They're so pretty and colourful, I'm here to admire them and you're taking them away from me."
My personal favourite is when I arrive at a nice spot, only to discover the water is filthy because a bunch of scuba newbies have just been there for 45mins training at 3-5M depth and stirred it into a vegetable soup learning the basics of bouyancy with the stab :waterwork
I dive with one or two folks from a scuba club who also like to spear and it's just comedy gold sometimes. Most of the scuba folks will be going on about how it's wrong for me to want to bag this massive lobster they're all talking about because they want to admire him everytime they dive. Then when I bag some nice fish or other shellfish, they all want a piece of it -- hypocrisy or what :vangry
It's like I'm captain hook and they're peter pan who can do no evil
Then we go for a walk at low tide on the rocks and people are turning rocks over and not putting them back in their place -- I give up :ko
bored at work if you couldn't tell :wave