-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Euro Open Muzzles
- Thread starterHamrrhed
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
That is a nice looking product. It is a commercial adaption of the ramps built into homemade wood guns. Back about 1960, the first replacement muzzles for abaletes appeared. These were closed but used a single slot for the new loop bands, and a definite improvement inasmuch as the foreward view was cleaner and the replacement bands were more reliable. Here we are, 44 years later, and still having to order replacement muzzles for Euro guns (arbaletes). Lordy, lordy. Well, I say get a 'hammerhead'. I predict you will love it. No more cross eyes trying to sight on a moving fish. No more jams trying to thread a closed muzzle.
Patent Pending???
Had a few more looks at it. I agree, looks like a very sound design. Someone put some effort into this. Must be some local boys from the islands since the area code and places you can buy are all Hawaiian dive shops. In the local dive shops, I've seen this mod done to stock euro guns quite often. What seems a bit peculiar though is that the designs are "patent pending". Seems like it can't be patented though since this "invention" has existed, according to Pesky, for ages. According to patent rules, you must file a patent within a year of publicly displaying or publishing a product or idea. It also seems like the copy protection provided by a patent, if granted, is not worth the thousands of bucks you'll spend obtaining it. Especially in the speargun market where "huge" returns are simply non-existent. I did a quick search on the pending list of the US Patent Database. Found nothing on speargun muzzles. Maybe I didn't search hard enough. Maybe they already filed but it hasn't been logged into the database. Trade commision might be after you if you say "patent pending" without actually having filed. The only manufacturer who has been actively patenting his speargun designs is Alfred Biller. (Pesky, I understand that the Biller guns are your babies). I can't say too much about the Billers because I haven't shot or handled one. I have reservations about the looks of it. I do like his one muzzle innovation that he patented. It allows the spearshaft to snap into place and held onto the barrel without completely inserting the shaft through the muzzle. Quite clever. Patco has worked somewhat around Billers patent by using what appears to be spring loaded plungers that hold the shaft in place. I'm starting to ramble, I'd better stop before I get cornered. Just thought I'd share some thoughts….
Gil
Had a few more looks at it. I agree, looks like a very sound design. Someone put some effort into this. Must be some local boys from the islands since the area code and places you can buy are all Hawaiian dive shops. In the local dive shops, I've seen this mod done to stock euro guns quite often. What seems a bit peculiar though is that the designs are "patent pending". Seems like it can't be patented though since this "invention" has existed, according to Pesky, for ages. According to patent rules, you must file a patent within a year of publicly displaying or publishing a product or idea. It also seems like the copy protection provided by a patent, if granted, is not worth the thousands of bucks you'll spend obtaining it. Especially in the speargun market where "huge" returns are simply non-existent. I did a quick search on the pending list of the US Patent Database. Found nothing on speargun muzzles. Maybe I didn't search hard enough. Maybe they already filed but it hasn't been logged into the database. Trade commision might be after you if you say "patent pending" without actually having filed. The only manufacturer who has been actively patenting his speargun designs is Alfred Biller. (Pesky, I understand that the Biller guns are your babies). I can't say too much about the Billers because I haven't shot or handled one. I have reservations about the looks of it. I do like his one muzzle innovation that he patented. It allows the spearshaft to snap into place and held onto the barrel without completely inserting the shaft through the muzzle. Quite clever. Patco has worked somewhat around Billers patent by using what appears to be spring loaded plungers that hold the shaft in place. I'm starting to ramble, I'd better stop before I get cornered. Just thought I'd share some thoughts….
Gil
I've stayed quiet about this because my words may be misconstrued as a biased opinion. I have no personal stake in Hammerhead Muzzles; however, it belongs to my dive partner up here in Cali(& yes Gil, he's from Hawaii too).
I've installed his muzzles on 3 types of my personal guns - Beuchat, Omer, & Esclapez. It works really well & I agree that it's a great design. We've done pool testing on his products & they all performed well.
re: personal bias... Plain & simple - I don't use gear I don't like. He has had prototypes that I didn't like. The previous one's design, so I didn't even try it. I liked this design & was happy to find that it shot well too. The material it's made out of is very solid & I've been using his open muzzles in my guns for over two years. The first muzzle I tried outlasted the gun!!!
There are patents pending & I'd like to offer more information on this, but quite honestly it's his business & I never pryed into the specifics. I'll inform him of this thread & perhaps he can shed some light on the matter.
I've installed his muzzles on 3 types of my personal guns - Beuchat, Omer, & Esclapez. It works really well & I agree that it's a great design. We've done pool testing on his products & they all performed well.
re: personal bias... Plain & simple - I don't use gear I don't like. He has had prototypes that I didn't like. The previous one's design, so I didn't even try it. I liked this design & was happy to find that it shot well too. The material it's made out of is very solid & I've been using his open muzzles in my guns for over two years. The first muzzle I tried outlasted the gun!!!
There are patents pending & I'd like to offer more information on this, but quite honestly it's his business & I never pryed into the specifics. I'll inform him of this thread & perhaps he can shed some light on the matter.
Last edited:
Aha!!! The truth comes out! Fuzz is up to no good too! Kidding brah... Hey, don't get me wrong, my intentions weren't to mess up your buddy's business and I have no intentions on making muzzles to compete. From his CAD skills, I can tell he has his head on straight. In fact, I envy people like him who can bring innovative products to market. It's tough to do, especially on your own. But I just question things, you know? I've been accustomed to not take things at face value. Too often you see "patent pending" on products simply because its a tried and true sales tactic and companies will rush to file a patent application to gain pending status before a product debut. Savvy business people know this and will impliment this strategy (not saying that i'm very business savvy). Many pending patents never actually become patents, rejected because they don't meet the criteria. The review process takes a while. By the time the patent has been granted, or rejected, the company has already released products into the market and seen the economic benefit, if any, of a patent pending label.
Look forward to hearing what the creator of Hammerhead Muzzles has to say.
So Fuzz, when is a good time to fly down and use your pool to test out my latest iterations (no, not the Stubby Stalker)? I might be able to make it down there during the Thanksgiving break, or maybe earlier. You busy??
Hey, here's some eye candy for those I put to sleep. My writing tends to do that.
My name is GilbertG. and I approve this message....
Look forward to hearing what the creator of Hammerhead Muzzles has to say.
So Fuzz, when is a good time to fly down and use your pool to test out my latest iterations (no, not the Stubby Stalker)? I might be able to make it down there during the Thanksgiving break, or maybe earlier. You busy??
Hey, here's some eye candy for those I put to sleep. My writing tends to do that.
My name is GilbertG. and I approve this message....
This is perfect!
Assumed they ship single muzzels abroad (switzerland) at a reasonable price this might be the start of an all-new gun for me. I have a spare trigger at home so with an imersion 28mm carbon barrel (enclosed track), 18mm circ bands, 6.5mm beuchat rockpoint spear and one of those sweet hammerhead muzzles, no med fish will ever be save again if i am around, harrharr...
Joe
Assumed they ship single muzzels abroad (switzerland) at a reasonable price this might be the start of an all-new gun for me. I have a spare trigger at home so with an imersion 28mm carbon barrel (enclosed track), 18mm circ bands, 6.5mm beuchat rockpoint spear and one of those sweet hammerhead muzzles, no med fish will ever be save again if i am around, harrharr...
Joe
About the Biller thing, this EXTREME gun below is my new kick. I bought one of these for 172 bucks. Still like some Biller models (with tweaking) but this EXTREME is an unbelievable bargain, at least at the EBay price (s).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47353&item=3695734105&rd=1
All, please excuse the OT post but brother Gilbert opened the door, heh.
Pesky
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47353&item=3695734105&rd=1
All, please excuse the OT post but brother Gilbert opened the door, heh.
Pesky
Fuzz, that is very interesting. I wondered about the Euro muzzle, eg as to whether there was a 'squirt gun' effect or some other reason related to the thin shafts. Otherwise, there may be local preference or tradition working to channel those designs. If the hammerhead muzzle is delivering on accuracy one must assume that support of the shaft's midsection is more important than a specific muzzle. Thus, as long as a 'rail' or slot is used then the muzzle is of secondary importance to shaft stability.
The EXTREME gun, with its enclosed track. should be able to handle blistering loads without stability problems, especially in view of its EXTREME barrel stiffness.
The EXTREME gun, with its enclosed track. should be able to handle blistering loads without stability problems, especially in view of its EXTREME barrel stiffness.
Hey Pesky, got a closer look at your new gun. Aside from the fact that it really does look like a two-by-four (I'm not the first to call it this, he could have rounded the edges and tapered it a bit more), you got a pretty smokin' deal for an enclosed track speargun. $172, that's unheard of! Construction looks solid. With that enclosed track in combination with lots of gun mass and the small opposing mass of a skinny 9/32 shaft, it will shoot like an M-16! Dead accurate with low recoil. Once you go enclosed track, you'll never go back. He he he... I ran across your thread on spearboard regarding this gun. Very fiesty discussion. The good ole gun debate mixed in with territorial skirmishes. Don't want it to turn into that here though, since the original topic was muzzles...
Gil
Gil
I looked at those muzzles and they look very funtional. Does he make them to fit barrel ids like home built guns? I looked at the extreme guns and they could use a bit of smoothness and are there any pros or cons to not having the whole barrel enclosed up to the muzzle.I was doing some digging and found this
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28592&highlight=reel
Sorry for highjacking your thread Hamrrhed AJ
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28592&highlight=reel
Sorry for highjacking your thread Hamrrhed
AJ
open muzzles: bottom line
I've been looking myself into those open muzzles to replace the original that comes with my gun, of South African origin. But the bottom line is price.
Maybe in the US it doesn't make a lot of difference because guns are more expensive, but 50 dollars for a muzzle is too hefty. Well, this isn't the price of the Hammerhead or its Reef models, but other Hawaiian muzzles.
The Hammerhead website doesn't explain its price or how it's made.
I've been looking myself into those open muzzles to replace the original that comes with my gun, of South African origin. But the bottom line is price.
Maybe in the US it doesn't make a lot of difference because guns are more expensive, but 50 dollars for a muzzle is too hefty. Well, this isn't the price of the Hammerhead or its Reef models, but other Hawaiian muzzles.
The Hammerhead website doesn't explain its price or how it's made.
I emailed the guy a couple of times and got one response but nothing on prices.I think both models are under $50 U.S . There was 2 for sale on ebay about a week ago.