European screw-on wishbones - 16mm v. 18mm v. 20mm - Omer v. Picasso v. ....

[MCerieiro]

Mushroom inserts = stainless steel/aluminium Clevis Pins?

It seems similar indeed, our mushroon insert is 316 stainless Stell, but i thing there are some differences between the 2 pices the shape of the pin seems slightly different

Yes, rubber prices have gotten silly in Europe - it's just rubber after all, and shipping costs can be very high from many EU countries. I found the US prices for bulk rubber significantly lower, e.g. Spearitco.com, The worlds largest selection of Speargun Bands and Do-It-Yourself Spearfishing Supplies. While the USA may seem far away, shipping is just as quick and often cheaper. US Companies generally provide very good service/customer satisfaction too (perhaps a combination of their good attitude, competition, business sense and mechanisms like the Better Business Bureau & the Chambers of Commerce) & the quality of American made products is usually good (robust) in my experience.

In many UE country's one of the problems of shipping from the US is the costumes office that taxes the products making in most cases the price higher than when bought in Europe.

Marco, not sure what shipping costs are like from Portugal, but if you can "drop ship" direct from suppliers in France/USA to customers in countries like the UK, I suspect shipping costs will be lower than from, say, Spain/Italy/Germany/Romania - which are often shockingly expensive (I use a small company in the UK that resells DHL and Fedex at reduced rates).

We ship most of our sales trough our headquarters in France, you can check estimated delivery coasts at: Blue Water Hunting Equipment

Cheers,
Marco

 

[Mr. X]

Good point about import taxes. Small orders (less than £18 I think) from outside the EU usually don't incurr import taxes but larger orders often do (VAT & import duty). Have heard about anglers being caught by surprise bills after receiving large orders with the big USA hunting suppliers such as Cabelas (they have a huge product selection at reasonable prices, many products they carry are not available in the EU). The Channel Islands (Jersey/Guernsey) are a special case, they are outside the EU so small orders do not incur VAT but for larger items the suppliers usually include VAT in their prices - some kind of agreement with the UK. Buying from inside the EU is simpler - the VAT is usually included in the price at source and there is no additional import tax ("the common market"). I think exclusive national dealerships are prohibited within the EU - so a dealer in say Portugal or Italy cannot legally be prevented from selling to customers anywhere in the EU.

 

[Old Man Dave]

Despite the fact that we shouldn't be charged VAT in Guernsey many companies do charge it. They usually charge at the rate of the country they're based in.

I try to order from companies that don't charge me VAT. Scubaland in France don't charge, neither do Apnea in Jersey or the DB shop. However when I bought my Diveskin MTM suit I was charged VAT (at Greek rate - about 15%) but didn't have a choice as they provided what I wanted. I did try via email to tell them not to charge VAT but without success. Incidentally I had exactly the same result with Elios. Neither company either understood or wanted to bother with the VAT issue.

Dave.

 

[MCerieiro]

Hi Dave,

You will not have those kind of problem with us so feel free to order roflrofla lot.

Now seriously guys, please notice that Import taxes (charged by the costumes) are different from country to country (outside UE), and the seller has absolutely no control over that.

Also islands like Reunion, Guadeloupe...that are French administrated territory are not consider EU territory in tax matters.

Regarding the main topic i was asked by Chris to show some pictures of the Mushroom wishbone in use, i already sent the pictures to him by email, but i am also posting here so you guys can see it.

Cheers!
Marco

 

[Lazuli]

Regarding the main topic i was asked by Chris to show some pictures of the Mushroom wishbone in use, i already sent the pictures to him by email, but i am also posting here so you guys can see it.

What is the maximum diameter/width of dyneema braid/rope that can be tied into those mushroom inserts? They look fairly narrow in the pictures but are probably ideal if you are using a tabbed spear. I feel that using dyneema in a notch (as some of us do on our makeshift conversions rofl) requires a thicker dyneema rope (i.e. 1.7mm-2mm) to avoid the perils of fraying and abrasion.

Also, Marco, what do you advise is the benefit of black over amber rubber compared with straight black or amber rubber?

Laz

 

[MCerieiro]

What is the maximum diameter/width of dyneema braid/rope that can be tied into those mushroom inserts?

1.8 mm dyneema is the ideal and its the one i´m using in the pictures

I feel that using dyneema in a notch (as some of us do on our makeshift conversions rofl) requires a thicker dyneema rope (i.e. 1.7mm-2mm) to avoid the perils of fraying and abrasion.

If you use shafts with round notch you will not have a single problem

Also, Marco, what do you advise is the benefit of black over amber rubber compared with straight black or amber rubber

Well...IMHO...the only thing i can point is that the black cover could be made of a more synthetic rubber and provide some extra protection against the elements, but it also makes the rubber a bit harder and less progressive in some cases

Cheers,
Marco

 

[Mr. X]

Not sure about the Amber vs. black. My original 16mm RA rubbers were all black but my replacement 20mm RA rubber was black & amber(/white). Maybe the black offers some UV protection or perhaps just helps keep your gun an anonymous matt black (although amber is not unlike kelp colour). Foundueset often reminds us that the speargun rubber is developed as a side-line of the cattle castrating rubber industry - so perhaps a castration related explanation would be more appropriate?

OMD, taxes are just too hard for most people. I've had to correct company financial directors who've made errors in the past. Most people know little or nothing about "special" territories like the Channel Islands/Manx/Gibralter/Virgin Islands/etc., etc..... which is probably a good thing in many regards. I heard recently that Ireland (Eire) is planning to create an tax haven, on an group of islands I think.

 

[Lazuli]

Not sure about the Amber vs. black. My original 16mm RA rubbers were all black but my replacement 20mm RA rubber was black & amber(/white). Maybe the black offers some UV protection or perhaps just helps keep your gun an anonymous matt black (although amber is not unlike kelp colour). Foundueset often reminds us that the speargun rubber is developed as a side-line of the cattle castrating rubber industry - so perhaps a castration related explanation would be more appropriate?

Crumbs! If I were a bull I'd opt for anything other than green "imersion" power rubber!rofl. No give whatsoever! Personally, I like the elastic response of fresh amber rubber . Seems to give good penetration to light spears in a single, properly cut 18mm sling.

OMD, taxes are just too hard for most people. I've had to correct company financial directors who've made errors in the past. Most people know little or nothing about "special" territories like the Channel Islands/Max/Gibralter/Virgin Islands/etc., etc..... which is probably a good thing in many regards. I heard recently that Ireland (Eire) is planning to create an tax haven, on an group of islands I think.

I take it you don't spend six months of the year on a yacht in the med then X??

 

[Mr. X]

I take it you don't spend six months of the year on a yacht in the med then X??

Are you kidding? I'm writing this from my quad-seater house-kayak in Monte Carlo bay.

 

[reunionisl]

Just my 2p found cicular bands and dyneema wishbones to be much nicer to reload and shoot with and much much cheaper along with being more versatile totaly sold! Also as I was looking for new bands checked out absoluteblue and just put in an order with Marco: really helpful all emails answered very quickly and very helpful, thoroughly recomended!

 

[Mr. X]

Good feedback

Some discussion on bands/threads re. Gabianno/Omer bands on another thread at the moment: http://forums.deeperblue.com/777959-post3.html

BTW I just noticed that some of the new Cressi spearguns (Geronimo) have a bent steel muzzle-wishbone, like the Omer XXV, I wonder if they're interchangeable (we think Cressi use different threads to Omer)? Perhaps not, the XXV has a very slim muzzle. Don't think I like this style of attachement - the rubbers swing forward after firing & adds to the general tangle potential.

 

[Lazuli]

When I was shopping around for a 75 I looked at the Geronimo (pro maybe??) in a dive shop. Something about the gun said "Omer copy" to me and I opted for the real thing instead.

When using a circular sling the band does flop forward of the muzzle sometimes after firing, but it is not usually a hassle or tangle hazard in any way.

Came across a decent source of 2mm dyneema rope. Cleats.co.uk do 30m (98ft) of 2mm Dyneema Rope for £18.99 (inc. Vat). Cut up that equals a couple of hundred wishbones or more.

 

[MCerieiro]

Hi guys!

Do you know the Breaking Strain of that dyneema rope? The price is indeed very good!

For me the 2 mm cord is very good for reels but for wishbones i think a 1.8 mm is the top, i had face some problems to insert the 2 mm cord into both plastic as metal pieces...

However you are completely right and buying dyneema by the meter is much cheaper than buying wishbones

cheers,
Marco

 

[Lazuli]

If you really want a laugh then these guys on Ebay.co.uk are worth a look:
fsonlineuk
2mm Dyneema "Racing Rope" at 38p per meter, or
100 meters for £36
Happy Days!

2mm works quite well on the Subprof (Abellan)/mares beads. Makes for a very secure sheet-bend connection.

I've noticed that the metal wishbone I use on my modified sioux 60 is knackering the notch on the spear. It is bending the crest of the notch upward and otherwise eating into the metal in a rather unsightly fashion. Could be time to convert the little chap! Anyone know of a good aftermarket open muzzle?????????

 

[hyeparis]

Picasso, IMHO, makes better quality gear than OMER

 

[Mr. X]

Picasso, IMHO, makes better quality gear than OMER

From admittedly limited experience of Picasso gear, I would disagree.

Re. 1.8mm v. 2mm for wishbones, I think Lazuli is already using 2mm. I recently bought some 1.9mm that was sold specifically for use in wishbones with grooved spears, although I haven't tried it out yet. If it's anything like climbing rope & fishing line, the actual diameter for a given size will probably vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer.

 

[Lazuli]

Re. 1.8mm v. 2mm for wishbones, I think Lazuli is already using 2mm. I recently bought some 1.9mm that was sold specifically for use in wishbones with grooved spears, although I haven't tried it out yet. If it's anything like climbing rope & fishing line, the actual diameter for a given size will probably vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Same story with speargun bands! I'm coming round to the fact that this is not an exact science rofl.

 

[watermandrew]

Hi everyone, how have your band/wishbone modifications gone? I know this thread is old, but I have just come around to the idea of dyneema wishbones after reading about them. Currently I own a standard Beauchat Mundial 75 gun, it seems to do the job although I am very new to the sport and still manage to miss a lot.
If I were to convert the existing bands (screw caps at each end of the bands), could it be done by simply cutting the threaded section off the wishbone end, inserting beads into the ends of the bands and then using constrictor cord to trap them?
I understand that the last stage would be to smooth out the existing grooves in my spear with a needle file and polish.

On another note, can anybody recommend any paint for making my gun camo?!

 

[watermandrew]

Alternatively could I just swap the existing steel wishbone for a length of Dyneema rope? I have removed the existing wishbone and photographed it, marking with blue lines where I intend to cut the steel for removal. Then I will thread dyneema through the threaded plastic caps and washers and tie off. Tada
simples

 

[martin366]

Alternatively could I just swap the existing steel wishbone for a length of Dyneema rope? I have removed the existing wishbone and photographed it, marking with blue lines where I intend to cut the steel for removal. Then I will thread dyneema through the threaded plastic caps and washers and tie off. Tada
simples

Yes, why not, i use same method Works very well and its very practical. You can easily change dyneema.

Good luck!