Seb, I apologise for my last post. It was 2.30am in the morning and I was angry and tired and did indeed not spend enough time trying to read what you had to say. I should have also waited until I calmed down before replying, and therefore may actually had something a little more constructive to say. Anyway, thank you for your explanation I do understand it a little better now. Brett sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion earlier from what you were saying. I think Ben may have started to realise what I was getting at. I should also not have attacked the concepts and techniques of FRC diving itself as I do not understand enough about it to make judgements and it may indeed provide benefits to others. If people wish to use it that’s their own choice. I do not have problem with exhale diving, as I said it’s something I do myself. I will say for the record that I do feel uneasy that it be used by recreational divers but that is something I may have to get used to and is only my own opinion. Again it’s up to personal choice.
I would like to calmly attempt to explain why I got so wound up over this whole topic, and what may help in future to avoid other people doing the same. What got me upset started with the original post when Brett mentioned he wanted to change to exhale diving to reduce the chance of Samba or Blackout. To me this made no sense because I was comparing what would happen on a single dive ie same depth & duration inhale vs exhale. Ben then mentioned that with FRC there is a whole change in style and approach in technique. Again I had no idea what he was talking about. It wasn’t until several posts later that Ben finally mentioned that he does actually reduce both his depth on time on any single FRC dive. (I do see now that Seb did indeed mention this in his post.) To Ben and Brett they already knew this and probably thought it was implied. As an outsider I was missing this extremely vital piece of information ?!
Did I wildly jump to a conclusion ?
Well can anyone on this forum seriously tell me that as a beginner they did not want to be able to dive longer and deeper ? (and hopefully safer)
Sure with any new technique there is a learning phase and people shouldn’t always try and set PB’s straight away. But what seems to be unusual in this case is that a newcomer must make significant reductions, and possibly even never increase their max depth/time whilst on FRC vs inhale when you are talking about any single dive. In any case this is the very thing that got me so upset, specially in Brett’s case where he would definitely have to reduce both his depth & time on a single dive whilst being in the learning/adapting phase. If not he would have been greatly increasing his chance of blackout. So as you can see when I saw a discussion of exhale diving, and people mentioning that it is safer, in my mind when comparing identical dives it was the complete opposite……..
To help break down what I believe is one of the biggest confusions on this subject I would just like some honest opinions now. Eric mentioned that with FRC it slightly decreases your max dive compared to inhale. Wouldn’t that only be the case for advanced divers ?
So for most people wouldn’t they have to make a significant reduction in both depth & time on any single dive?
(I’m not sure if someone has already done a poll on this on DB, the stats may be useful for future discussions.) I’m not asking this to payout on FRC diving. As Seb and Eric mentioned this trade off may be greatly outweighed by other advantages such as much shorter rest intervals and therefore with FRC the overall bottom time can be increased in any one diving session. This along with other examples such as the one Eric pointed out where he was able to do more dives at a specific depth because of the reduced risk of DCS.
As for my suggestions of discussing this technique in future:-
I am sincerely asking everyone, please don’t use short statements on exhale/FRC diving such as “exhale diving may reduce the chance of Samba or Blackout.” I believe that most people without knowledge of FRC diving will interpret this to mean they can dive to the same depth and or time on a single dive and do this safer. (People other then myself have definitely made this very interpretation before). To me Ben was little more correct with the statement:-
My own thoughts are, if you wish to explain that this whole style of diving may help reduce BO, then please also include something along the lines of – “ in most cases both the depth and duration of any single dive is reduced, but rest intervals are greatly reduced therefore the net result will be an increased bottom time in any single dive session……..”
Clearly mentioning that depths & times on any single FRC dive will be reduced in most cases may help others with diving experience but not FRC theory from getting overexcited and people getting angry at each other. Not to mention reduce the chance of a possibly dangerous misinterpretation. I see this as no different to when talking to beginners about static technique. If you don’t know the person I think it’s often courteous to include a quick “please don’t do a static in pool without a buddy”. They may probably know this already but it doesn’t hurt to make sure. It doesn’t take a lot of effort and may help increase the safety of others. While we are all enthusiastic to point the advantages of our favourite technique to others I think it’s responsible to also point out any potential risks.
Thanks a lot,
Wal
P.S. Seb regarding your theory of me seeing you as a competitive threat - this is not the case. When you did your dynamic record attempt in Brisbane I sent you an email to congratulate you. I also asked you and was hoping you wanted to compete in the AIDA cup in Hawaii (2002). You told me then you were not interested in competition. Up until recently I have always thought it was a pity you do not compete because someone at your level would have given an Australia team a really good chance of placing well in a freediving team competition.
I would like to calmly attempt to explain why I got so wound up over this whole topic, and what may help in future to avoid other people doing the same. What got me upset started with the original post when Brett mentioned he wanted to change to exhale diving to reduce the chance of Samba or Blackout. To me this made no sense because I was comparing what would happen on a single dive ie same depth & duration inhale vs exhale. Ben then mentioned that with FRC there is a whole change in style and approach in technique. Again I had no idea what he was talking about. It wasn’t until several posts later that Ben finally mentioned that he does actually reduce both his depth on time on any single FRC dive. (I do see now that Seb did indeed mention this in his post.) To Ben and Brett they already knew this and probably thought it was implied. As an outsider I was missing this extremely vital piece of information ?!
Did I wildly jump to a conclusion ?
Well can anyone on this forum seriously tell me that as a beginner they did not want to be able to dive longer and deeper ? (and hopefully safer)
Sure with any new technique there is a learning phase and people shouldn’t always try and set PB’s straight away. But what seems to be unusual in this case is that a newcomer must make significant reductions, and possibly even never increase their max depth/time whilst on FRC vs inhale when you are talking about any single dive. In any case this is the very thing that got me so upset, specially in Brett’s case where he would definitely have to reduce both his depth & time on a single dive whilst being in the learning/adapting phase. If not he would have been greatly increasing his chance of blackout. So as you can see when I saw a discussion of exhale diving, and people mentioning that it is safer, in my mind when comparing identical dives it was the complete opposite……..
To help break down what I believe is one of the biggest confusions on this subject I would just like some honest opinions now. Eric mentioned that with FRC it slightly decreases your max dive compared to inhale. Wouldn’t that only be the case for advanced divers ?
So for most people wouldn’t they have to make a significant reduction in both depth & time on any single dive?
(I’m not sure if someone has already done a poll on this on DB, the stats may be useful for future discussions.) I’m not asking this to payout on FRC diving. As Seb and Eric mentioned this trade off may be greatly outweighed by other advantages such as much shorter rest intervals and therefore with FRC the overall bottom time can be increased in any one diving session. This along with other examples such as the one Eric pointed out where he was able to do more dives at a specific depth because of the reduced risk of DCS.
As for my suggestions of discussing this technique in future:-
I am sincerely asking everyone, please don’t use short statements on exhale/FRC diving such as “exhale diving may reduce the chance of Samba or Blackout.” I believe that most people without knowledge of FRC diving will interpret this to mean they can dive to the same depth and or time on a single dive and do this safer. (People other then myself have definitely made this very interpretation before). To me Ben was little more correct with the statement:-
My own thoughts are, if you wish to explain that this whole style of diving may help reduce BO, then please also include something along the lines of – “ in most cases both the depth and duration of any single dive is reduced, but rest intervals are greatly reduced therefore the net result will be an increased bottom time in any single dive session……..”
Clearly mentioning that depths & times on any single FRC dive will be reduced in most cases may help others with diving experience but not FRC theory from getting overexcited and people getting angry at each other. Not to mention reduce the chance of a possibly dangerous misinterpretation. I see this as no different to when talking to beginners about static technique. If you don’t know the person I think it’s often courteous to include a quick “please don’t do a static in pool without a buddy”. They may probably know this already but it doesn’t hurt to make sure. It doesn’t take a lot of effort and may help increase the safety of others. While we are all enthusiastic to point the advantages of our favourite technique to others I think it’s responsible to also point out any potential risks.
Thanks a lot,
Wal
P.S. Seb regarding your theory of me seeing you as a competitive threat - this is not the case. When you did your dynamic record attempt in Brisbane I sent you an email to congratulate you. I also asked you and was hoping you wanted to compete in the AIDA cup in Hawaii (2002). You told me then you were not interested in competition. Up until recently I have always thought it was a pity you do not compete because someone at your level would have given an Australia team a really good chance of placing well in a freediving team competition.
