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Extreme Dolfinism G2

Discussion in 'Monofins' started by REVAN, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. baiyoke

    baiyoke Well-Known Member

    Local Time:
    11:25 AM
    Nice first video RON... Pure freediving tech-p*rn... :) Looking good...
     
  2. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Got out to the pool on Friday and got some more time in the water with the fin. I did somewhere north of 65+ laps U/W with the fin attempting to undulate and experiment with various kicking styles. I had an interesting phenomenon crop up a few times that I'm curious about. There were a few (and I mean just a few) times while kicking when all of a sudden, I thought the fin had come off or broken or something. There was suddenly almost no resistance at all. . . nearly identical to kicking bare-foot. It actually made me look back to make sure it was still there and that nothing had happened to it. The strange thing was that nothing was wrong with the fin at all and it continued to propel me at the same rate through the water. These events were just a handful of kicks long. . like "kick, kick kick, gone" or "kick, kick, gone", but I'm wondering: is this what "proper" monofin technique feels like with the Dolfins? Effortless? I ask because otherwise the fin is more work than my bifins and am just curious if I had a few glimpses of going in the right direction regarding technique.

    Thanks all!
     
  3. Kars

    Kars Well-Known Member

    Local Time:
    12:25 PM
    Sounds like you've been hitting the sweet spot :)
    See if you can reproduce it. - Take notes, take video, share. And -foremost- ENJOY.

    Indeed when the rhythm, movement and timing align, dynamic feels like effortless flying.
    Others describe it as going in between the water.
     
    Triton1715 likes this.
  4. cdavis

    cdavis Supporter Supporter

    Local Time:
    11:25 AM
    Same experience, and it is falling into the sweet spot. With practice, you can stay in it.
     
  5. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Thanks CDavis. I appreciate the confirmation. I know I've been quite chatty in this forum, but out of curiosity, do you happen to know about how fast you can do 25 yds with your X-20?

    Thanks!
     
  6. cdavis

    cdavis Supporter Supporter

    Local Time:
    11:25 AM
    -Embarrassing question. I'm slow, not strong enough and poor technique, plus, mine is an x18, less fast than an x20(but I don't think that is the issue). 15 seconds for 25 yards. With practice, I could probably get that down to about 13, but I don't work much on speed.

    On the subject of sweet spot. I found other monos to have a very well defined, i.e. narrow, sweet spot, with an equally narrow speed range, and one that I could fall out of very easily. My x18 seems to have a much wider sweet spot, not as well defined. I suspect the x20, being tuned for pure freediving, will fall somewhere between mine and a traditional mono.

    Connor
     
  7. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Perfect Connor! That was exactly the information I was hoping to hear. It means that I've got a long way to go before I am even remotely getting near the fins true abilities. To put this in perspective, I was experimenting with it on Friday and wanted to just see what kind of times I could get with it . . .crummy technique and all and compare it to my bifins. With the X-22 (30" blade), the absolutely best I was able to manage was maybe about 15-16seconds. Most were usually in the 19 range. Contrast that with my bifins with which I can routinely get in the 11-12 second range (dolphin kicking) and it was starting to give me a bit of concern. Knowing that you are able to do so well despite the smaller fin and lack of emphasis on speed helps me realize how much more potential the fin has once I get my technique right. Thanks!
     
  8. Fondueset

    Fondueset Carp Whisperer

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    A reminder that it's about energy for distance with these fins. The Dol-fins are not sprint fins - they are cruise fins. In fact my hyperfin is not a sprint fin. I can do 25m in 16seconds dolphin kicking with no fins - but the energy expenditure is massive.
     
  9. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Very true. It's just that when one is starting from scratch and flying blind, like me, it is helpful to have as many metrics as possible to better gauge progress. (At least for me. . .I'm a numbers guy to a certain extent and like knowing where I'm at and where I'm headed).

    25m in 16s with no fins? Yeesh! I'd be lucky to do 25m in 16 minutes! With one exception, I just can't move much dolphin-kicking with no-fins. I know it's all in the technique. . . and that should illuminate exactly how much technique I've got . . .zilch. At least it's nice to have something to work towards though. :p
     
  10. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Here's a little update on my end:

    1. I took the fin apart (taking Ron's advice) and installed a bumper on the back of the float to help cut down on wear when pushing off the pool wall. Works like a charm!

    2. Spent some more time in the pool with the fin. I can't quite seem to find the ludicrously easy feeling that I had glimpsed a during my last session and am chalking up the experience to supercavitation due to my flailing attempt to sprint ;). However, I am having a bit more luck, I think, in getting undulation to occur and the kicks are definitely getting easier. The down side is the my front half has to move as well (hands and all) to get it to occur, but I figure once I get the hang of it, I can always try to dial that back. In the meantime, it seems that my best efforts at being relaxed and going at a decent clip have me doing 25yds with the fin in around 24-25 seconds.

    (I should note however that this time is based off my D4i which means the first 3 yds or so don't register yet as I'm not deep enough to trigger the dive mode. Also, upon reaching the wall, there is an additional 3 seconds or so that get recorded as I surface from the bottom. It's not precise, but I figure the two ends somewhat cancel each other out and it is probably more important that I have consistent starts and ends rather than try to adjust the watch timing to compensate for the discrepancy.)

    I have no idea where this time falls with regards to ideal DYN speeds/rates, but for the time being, this seems to be my wall. I did 60 dives to day and the last 30 were all within 1 second of each other in this regard. I'm nothing if not consistent. . .even if that is consistently bad. . . .at least it's predictable :D.

    Nonetheless, I switched over to my bifins and found that currently I'm about 2-3 seconds faster in bifins for the same perceived effort (and attempting to use the same monofin technique I'm using for the X-22). What I take this to mean is that my technique is still favoring "pushing the water" than flying through it. . . a carry over from years of improper dolphin kicking with bifins. An odd thing I discovered was that though you can dolphin kick with either the mono or bifins, the two sets of fins seem to favor different techniques. For example, the monofin was more efficient the more I tried to emulate the proper dolphin kicking technique with full body undulation whereas the bifins became less efficient the more I attempted to do the same. For some reason, it seems that my bifins favor bending the knees a little more and "pushing" the water away when dolphin kicking rather than full undulation with straight legs approach (not that I'm an expert by any means, just my own experience with my limited abilities). Has anyone else experienced this?

    Finally, I had one more question which I was not able to find a satisfactory answer to in the forums: Regarding dolphin-kicking, I know that swimmers use the same or a similar technique for swimming. After watching a number of tutorials and videos on line, there appears to be a slight difference in the technique between what is used by swimmers and that employed by freedivers. The problem is that I don't know enough to know if this is a true difference of technique or just simply variances in technique by individuals that happen to coincide with the different disciplines. Can anyone perhaps clear this up for me? Is there a difference in the technique for swimming vs. freediving or am I just seeing things?

    Thank you all once again!
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  11. Kars

    Kars Well-Known Member

    Local Time:
    12:25 PM
    Hi Triton, thanks for your lovely detailed update.
    To me it's clear you're learning, feeling your way around into the unknown territory.
    The glide in between water feeling comes when your ass rises and your upperbody totates forward. However often beginners fall into the trap of swimming like a snake. When you shoulders become more flexible, you'll find it easier to keep the arms horizontal, and just let your ass and upper back move up. What really helps is also to make small undulations, within your flexibility range.

    For monofinning there are many different swimstyles. Glad you're noticing, another sign you're learning! Goran has a much more leg technique then Alexey (very flat full indulation). People diving deep often use bigger undulations to efficiently snake through the positive and negative buoyancy. People doing monofin competitions are really streamlined, and their movements fall within a triangle through the horizontal axes from the hands: Hands level, shoulders up and down, hips more up and down, fintip about 1m up and down.

    I suggest downloading the youtube files, and study them frame - by - frame, what muscles are they using in what order?
    When you have cool video, you ask a fellow pool user to compare your and the model's technique, using an phone or tablet.

    What also helps to learn, is to have a small board in you hands, to help them staying level.
    Try slow and fast.

    I this helps and I'm looking forward to your next report, it sounds like you're heaving fun exploring!
     
  12. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Hi Kars,

    Thanks for the encouragement. You are correct that right now I am definitely swimming more like a snake, but I have to at the moment to get the undulation to occur. Once I get used to the motion, I plan to focus on it more in my abdomen and hips and work on eliminating the upper body movement.

    I'm very happy to have you confirm my suspicions regarding differences in monofin technique dependent upon discipline. That definitely helps me a lot as I now know that my initial approach to monofin training was a bit misguided for what I am looking to do.

    I'll keep you posted on my training and how it is progressing. Thanks again for all the help!
     
  13. REVAN

    REVAN The Right Stuff Supporter

    Local Time:
    4:25 AM
    I got a visit from one of my customers last week. I was pleased to see that after 3 years of use and traveling around the world, his Orca still looked to be in great shape. From the looks of it, his Orca will last for a long time to come.

    I think it is safe to say that he was impressed with the Orca2 and liked several of the new features being incorporated into the design (particularly the new binding straps and the poly-carbonate fairing). However, one thing he brought up while he was here was that he prefers the negative buoyancy of his Orca1 to the positive buoyancy of the Orca2. Everyone has a preference, right?

    Anyway, the Orca2 prototype in the video at the head of this thread has an integrated structural float within the fairing that cannot be removed and still have the fin attached. So, I've been taking the past couple days to see if I can design an all aluminum frame for the Orca2 that would appeal more to recreational freedivers and anyone who likes their monofin to sink instead of float. So far, the float-less frame looks pretty good.

    Negative buoyancy will make surface swimming easier, positive buoyancy makes competition diving easier (especially CWT diving). The all aluminum frame Orca2 will have a lighter overall dry weight as well (about 4.5 to 5 pounds vs. 6.5 to 7 pounds).
     
    Kars, Triton1715 and lil jon like this.
  14. Triton1715

    Triton1715 Active Member

    Local Time:
    6:25 AM
    Finally got back into the water today after nearly a month of being high and dry. Making some adjustments to my technique from last time, things seemed a bit easier today. I focused more on the glide element of the fin as was quite amazed at how flight-like it felt. Once you're up to speed, just an occasional little flick of the ankle or leg seems to keep you moving quite well. I only had a short time today, but it felt really good to get back in and I'll be excited to play with the fin more hopefully on Friday.

    Still have a pretty steep climb to get up the mono fin hill, but at least I think I'm starting to see the right path rather than continually ambling through the brush. ;)
     
  15. REVAN

    REVAN The Right Stuff Supporter

    Local Time:
    4:25 AM
    Equalizing has been dicey for me, so I don't know what kind of deep diving I'll be doing in the coming weeks here in Hawaii. Also, the past 2 years without training has clearly taken it's toll on my abilities. I managed to squeak out a painful 5:45 static the other day. That is where I started 4 years ago at Freedive Paradise in 2010. So, I've clearly got some work to do to get back in shape for diving.

    I did get out to do some 'fun' swimming with the Orca yesterday. It is impressive just how fast and far it is possible to go with the new Orca when you get on it. So far, the Orca model with the float is working well. The Orca without the float is making an annoying popping sound that I need to solve. Other than that, the performance of the fins seems to be very good and inline with expectations.
     
    Triton1715 likes this.
  16. REVAN

    REVAN The Right Stuff Supporter

    Local Time:
    4:25 AM
    It's unfortunate that it took 2 years to get around to making another proximity free-glide video. But, here is a new piece of salty candy to get your freediving juices flowing:

     
    Azrael3000 and HydroApprentice like this.
  17. cdavis

    cdavis Supporter Supporter

    Local Time:
    11:25 AM
    Great timing, Ron. Gives me something to compare with. I'm headed back to the
    Bahamas next week for a month of serious Dol-fin diving. Got my buoyancy dialed in; very much looking forward to gliding the walls in San Salvador and Rum Cay.
     
  18. REVAN

    REVAN The Right Stuff Supporter

    Local Time:
    4:25 AM
    If you build a fixture to hold a camera off to the side, it would be cool to get more video instalments of free-gliding. I actually use an old fin blade to hold the camera out at a decent perspective angle to film the diver, but any relatively streamline strut will work. You could cut something from a sheet of plastic or even plywood (though added weight may be needed). Just try to avoid round poles, because they will have significant drag and hurt your glide performance.
     
  19. cdavis

    cdavis Supporter Supporter

    Local Time:
    11:25 AM
    Time is short, I probalby won't be able to make anything. My buddy has the gopro, so I'll put him to work.

    How deep were you when you started the glide in the video?
     
  20. REVAN

    REVAN The Right Stuff Supporter

    Local Time:
    4:25 AM
    Probably about 8 meters, maybe 10. We had more weight than usual to get more glide energy at the shallow depths. I was wearing half of a 3mm suit and carrying 10 pounds between my neck weight and belt. A surface float, noodle, or pillow can be handy for the breath-up, as you are not real floaty at the surface.