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Extreme Dolfinism G2

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Yes, there are more shoes available with the Look system. But, you only need one pair of shoes and the SPD shoes are adjustable on the frame to account for things like leg asymmetry. The Look shoes are easier to attach and setup (important when going with custom shoes), but the Look mounting holes don't adjust like the SPD system. So, advantages either way you go.

Anyone think one fin looks better than the other, or are they too similar to make a distinction? Anyone prefer the white shoes over the black?
 

Yep, that's a good point. I'd forgotten about that aspect of the SPD system. I have a pair of shoes (entirely unsuitable for a Pilot) that I use for my bike that use SPD to connect to Eggbeater pedals.

If, as you are, you sell the shoes with the fin then it's almost a moot point because you can provide the best package from your experience. If you're selling without the shoes then it's about providing the widest flexibility of choice for the purchaser.

I'm reminded of the words from James Blunt's song 'Same Mistake':

"Give me reason but don't give me choice. 'Cause I'll just make the same mistake again..."

People are apt at making the wrong decision when they're give a lot of choice so explaining your reasoning for why you've settled on specific make/model/interface would undoubtedly help the majority of people.
 

Good point:

I had originally gone with the SPD system because it was adjustable and the bolt plates in the shoes were removeable and replaceable. If it corroded, it could be swapped out without buying new shoes, just replace the one corroded part. I also stuck with shoes that use velcro closures instead of clips to avoid springs and small metal parts that would corrode and fail. Aside from that, I wanted to use shoes that were reasonably priced and streamlined. If you've got to use $200 to $300 shoes, it makes the monofin expensive.

There are only a few shoe products available with the SPD system that use velcro closures and don't have big cleats on the soles that have no purpose on a monofin and only create unnecessary drag. It made sense to just design the the X-20 to use those specific shoes and sell them together as an integrated unit, and that's why the X-20 and the Pilot come with shoes.

After working with these systems for several years, I've found that corrosion on the bolt plates has not been a problem. No nut plates have been replaced before the shoes eventually wear out for other reasons. The conclusion is that using the non-replaceable Look bolting system would probably not be a significant issue for customers. With the large availability of shoes that use the Look system, it is reasonable to sell the fin without shoes and allow customers to choose something they like from the vast pool of shoe suppliers. The only real disadvantage is the non-adjustable design of the Look system, but most people don't need to make adjustments anyway, so it's a non-issue for a large percentage of customers.

However, the other considerations for using velcro closures and cost still apply, and the Pearl Izumi Tri-Fly V shoe is a good choice and that is what I've been using with the Pilot2. It has enough rubber on the heels to make a good bumper for the pool. Its comfortable both with and without socks. It is made with material designed for use in a water environment and they drain and dry well. In my opinion, this is the most practical shoe available from Shimano/Pearl Izumi to use with the DOL-Fin Pilot2. If opting to use another shoe supplier, I'd encourage customers to look for a shoe with similar design features to the the Tri-Fly V.
 
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Reactions: Philip Fennell
Hi Guys, I own a Hyperfin which has sustained a large amount of abuse and now gladly retires.

I am now thinking of purchasing the first hydrofoil fin.
As a starter I plan to only invest on x-20 or a Pilot dol-fin.

Could you guys give me a description of the main differences between these two models?

Thanks in advance.
 
The X-20 has slightly longer struts than the Pilot (think of the X-20 as being in a slightly higher gear). Aside from that, the Pilot is a bit more compact in a suitcase and they look a little different. The Pilot2 has more shoe options that can be used with it.

The biggest difference is that the X-20s were more expensive for me to make.
 
Reactions: Marciano and Manger_83
Hey Guys


Between the X-20 and the Pilot Dol-phin,
What are the main differences in:

Performance

and

Comfort,
will I notice any big differences?
I would like to hear some thoughts of what the main differences between a Pilot and a soft Hyperfin.

thanks
 
Can't comment on the hyperfin, have not used one, but I have an x18, very similar to the pilot.

If you do a lot of dynamic and/or deep CW, the x20 should be more efficient, higher gear as REVAN says. If you have good technique, the difference is probably worth paying for. Comfort should be identical. For my use, I prefer the lower gear, higher torque. Its all in what you are looking for.
 
Took a peak at your profile. Why are you not considering an Orca? That one is closest to a hyperfin.

Comparing to a hyperfin, can't help you, never used one. I have an x18, very similar to the Pilot. The x20 should be more efficient, as REVAN says, a higher gear. If you intend it for competition use and have good technique, the difference in cost is probably worth paying. Comfort should be identical.

I like my fin, lesser efficiency also means higher torque, which suits my use. Its all in what you are looking for.
 

Marciano, the Pilot is going to be more in the class of a recreational mono fin - such as the waterway memo - though probably more efficient. I found the X-22 really great for recreational diving - but I did not seriously A/B it against my hyperfin. Comfort-wise it's going to be as comfortable as the shoes you get. I prefer them large - with room for socks in cold water.
 
Reactions: Marciano
Marciano said:
...Between the X-20 and the Pilot Dol-phin,
What are the main differences in:

Performance and Comfort,
will I notice any big differences?
Click to expand...

The X-20 and Pilot monofins are pretty close in both parameters. The lever arm to the fin is slightly longer on the X-20, so the ankle loads are slightly larger as is the amount of push you get from it. Personally, I think the Pilot is tuned slightly better for most recreational freediving activities. Like Fondueset had said, they are going to be as comfortable as the shoes you have on it. If you want a competition monofin, I'd recommend the Orca2. It has several features that are worth it for a competition fin. The X-20 will feel more similar to the Orca2, but without the streamlining, its performance will be closer to the Pilot series.

Marciano said:
...I would like to hear some thoughts of what the main differences between a Pilot and a soft Hyperfin?...
Click to expand...

The Pilot and X-20 have a very nice and efficient hydrofoil for propulsion. What they lack is a streamline foot attachment. So, the difference between these fins and the Orca2 is the drag profile of the diver. Fondueset's review of the Orca2 still has not been published, but I'm expecting it about any day here on DeeperBlue.com. I can't tell you the results yet. It is an independent review, and like everyone else, I still haven't seen it, though I do know it is with the DB editors as I'm writing this. What I can say is that the lack of streamlining on the X-20 and Pilot monofins accounts for about a 8% to 11% performance loss over the Orca2. When the Orca2 review comes out, I expect the Orca2 will be accurately benchmarked against a "best in the market" hyperfin. With that information, you should be able to get an accurate assessment of the Pilot relative to the hyperfin as well.

As far as a quick assessment goes, the Pilot monofins are recreational monofins. The design emphasis was on controlling costs to maximize the quality to cost ratio. I wanted it to be comfortable, and for a monofin, relatively easy to learn and use. I wanted it to be easy to travel with and durable. And finally, it needed to outperform bi-fins and other recreational monofins like the WW Nemo, and feel really good doing it. I think it achieves all these goals, and if you want a recreational monofin it will put a big smile on your face.

I don't think it will outperform a good properly tuned hyperfin. Competing head-to-head with hyperfins in a competition setting, where performance is everything, is the realm of the Orca2. Depending on your goals, you can certainly train and compete with a Pilot and have fun doing it. You can improve your freediving abilities in comfort and if you ever get to where you care enough about maximizing your performance you can upgrade to an Orca2 and get that extra 8% to 11% performance right out of the box.

I hope this helps to clarify things for you. Please feel free to email or PM me if you have other questions you want answered specifically be me. Otherwise, I'll try to let other independent voices here on the forum do the responding.

Ron Smith
- Smith Aerospace Corp.
www.smithaerospace.us
 
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Reactions: Marciano and HydroApprentice
The Review should be online pretty soon. I've finished my twe
 
While I didn't get as much time with the X-22 (a pre-Pilot prototype or; P3) I was really impressed with it. It was a really easy fin to get along with.
 
REVAN said:
Oh! How about that, the review just went up; well part one anyway....

https://www.deeperblue.com/dol-fin-lift-based-mono-fin-review-introduction/
Click to expand...
I've read parts 1 and 2 and think the review is very well written and objective. The most compelling statement,I think, comes fromthe end of Eric's video review where he says:

After 2 minutes at 35m, I feel as though I didn't even make a dive.
Click to expand...

From my far, far, more limited experiences I agree with this statement entirely.

I'm looking forward to part 3 tomorrow.
 
"It is also clear that this fin is the best candidate to set world records in constant weight, and it is only a matter of time before a depth record is set with it."

"The writing is on the wall and the days of the ‘Andronov’-style monofin are numbered."

[emoji15]

That was pretty clear. Congratulations Ron, it must be amazing to get this kind of feedback!
 
Reactions: REVAN
Well, 3 days to get the whole story, and it was all pretty exciting to read.

Many thanks to Chris Morey ( @Fondueset ) for putting all that together. Gear review is a difficult task to undertake and he was not compensated for this act of public charity.

I know he put a lot of time and effort into this, and during the process of transitioning from the Orca1.5 to the Orca2, the local authorities there in T.C. decided that freediving was evil and went on a campaign to stop it. Yet, he persisted and managed to complete the review in spite of these unforeseen difficulties.

We owe him a debt of gratitude. Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are a champ C.M.
 
Reactions: Philip Fennell

Glad you guys are finding the review helpful. Because Eric and Connor have more mileage on the Dol-fins I saw my role primarily as creating a framework for their impressions and summarizing.
 
Fondueset said:
Glad you guys are finding the review helpful. Because Eric and Connor have more mileage on the Dol-fins I saw my role primarily as creating a framework for their impressions and summarizing.
Click to expand...

Thanks to Eric and Connor as well. They have been using the equipment for some time, and it was very welcome and appreciated to read their accounts. You had to really go out of your way to make this happen. I feel like this was more of a chore for you.
 
Not at all, Revan, A pleasure Excellence is always to be celebrated! FYI - I've a training coming up in August - be good to have a Pilot on hand - it's mostly apt to be scubies!
 
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