• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Extreme Dolfinism G2

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
opps, something not right with the comment section on the review. I posted, but it did not take. Monitors move the post below if that makes sense.

There are several things that I did not mention in the review that are worthy of comment.


The surface diving ability of my Dol-fin is outstanding. This probably extends to the Orca, I just haven't tried it (yet!) My diving dates back to that prehistoric period before longfins. We used Jetfins, short, stiff and heavy as heck, which surface dived very well. For all their advantages, switching to longfins was a pain from the surface dive point of view. The diver has to balance a very long floppy lever up in the air before he finally sinks. Its also harder to get that long draggy fin quickly up in the air to maximize the effect of the surface dive. This takes attention and energy that could be much better used in the dive. Most divers have known nothing else and so do not recognize that things could be better. Things are much better with a Dol-fin. It is stiff, small, relatively short and fairly heavy in the air, just like Jetfins. Accordingly, the surface dive is easier and much much more stable. Once the fin is in the water, it has much less drag than other fins, bi or mono, so the diver maintains speed for longer and gets deeper with the less effort. All for the good.


Customizing is where the Dol-fin really gets interesting. We are just beginning to explore the customizing ability of the Dol-fin series; there will be lots more of this. I've been working on adding buoyancy to my fin for a while(getting it right is amazingly difficult), primarily to make it easier in a vertical descent. Eric is ahead of me, as usual, in figuring out different buoyancy amounts for different activities. I'm pretty sure that buoyancy is going to be a very personal thing, dependent on both the diver, the gear he is wearing, and the activity, but developing some general rules will be super helpful for most divers. .


One area where the Dol-fin is radically different from other fins is drag. It has far less than anything else out there, because the blade is both so small and so thin. This has a multitude of impacts, some have been commented on, like long glides, different level of feedback, feeling of effortless kicking, etc. There will be others we have not thought much about, some are probably unknown at present. Impact on descent is one of the ones we know about. The fin is so slick that it wants to fall faster than the rest of you and you may find yourself falling sideways unless you keep kicking just a bit, not something I like to do. Thick wetsuits on the legs minimize the issue. A neck weight helps(its critical when using a Dol-fin) but the issue is still there. Eric and I have added buoyancy to the fin to counter that tendency. My technique isn't all that good and I'm wearing minimal wetsuit, so, (I think), the issue gives me more trouble and I am now experimenting with a whole lot of incompressible buoyancy, balanced by adding a bit of weight to my belt and/or neck weight. Still experimenting.


Another area that bifiners will notice is the tendency for the fin to sink and fall out from under the diver when he/she is sitting still on the surface. The unmodified fin is negative and even after adding considerable buoyancy, mine still falls because my legs are negative. Bifins are also negative, but its easy to counter with a minimal scull that the Dol-fin can't do. This won't affect all divers, since many are wearing considerable wetsuit on their legs, but I dive in tropical waters with little or not suit on my legs. I'm experimenting with a wrap of wetsuit material around my ankles. This is going to work, but I haven't got the details straight yet.


An area where I may get some disagreement is undulation. IMHO, if you don't want to go fast and your undulation technique is poor (and/or your back is as stiff as mine), it will be more efficient to use your ankles plus just a bit of pelvis to drive the fin. Your knees can be nearly straight, stroke amplitude is small so the whole system stays very streamlined and the energy expenditure is small. That will get you something more than 1 m/s, plenty fast enough for most open water diving activity. .



All in all, a fin that truly engages your brain. It works great straight out of the box, but the possibilities for technique improvement and customization are nearly endless and will keep you thinking for a long time to come.
What error message did you get? I'm not aware of any issues so do let me know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
it depends a bit on what you want. The absolute efficiency and probably speed of the 20 is greater than the 18, what most people are interested in, but the 20 might not be quite as maneuverable or have as much torque.
 
No, not quite! Mine has "x-20 experimental" written on it. Ron can have the final say on whether they are the same model. But 20 is better than 18 is it not?

Connor has the original concept prototype that you used in Vancouver, summer of 2011. You have one of the first batch of X-20s produced.
 
Stephen: Tried to post on the review (part 3) but it would not take it. Maybe comment is too long?
 
No worked fine - all comments go under review if you are not registered with the site (main site not forums). I just approved it and it now appears.
 
Connor has the original concept prototype that you used in Vancouver, summer of 2011. You have one of the first batch of X-20s produced.

Ahh, so mine IS better! Whew.

In all seriousness, it's a great fin. Curious to try the new orca at some point. Looks great, especially the improvements in the foot interface. Nice work, Ron.
 
I just returned from 7 days of hard diving and spearfishing with the Orca2. The fin performed well for me in the harsh boat environment, getting banged around, never cleaned, intense sun and salt, etc.... I wore a very thin 1mm dive sock and never had any cramps or blisters. My feet emerged from the experience completely normal. :)

However, I learned from one of the other divers on the boat, if you have flat feet and bunions, the stock Orca2 straps may not work very well for you. If you have these foot conditions, a fin model that uses shoes might be a safer bet for you. The biggest issue is that bunions change the shape of the foot in such a way that the straps cannot fit properly over the foot to secure it and still be able to get the foot in and out of the straps. This condition requires a strap design more like the old Orca1 strap that is open when the foot is inserted (placed on the footplate) and then cinches down tight over the top of the foot to conform to the shape as it sits in the fin's frame. Shoes operate like this, so they can still work with bunions. When I get back to the shop, I can look to see if the Orca1 straps can be mated to an Orca2 to accomodate this special case.
 
Thanks for coming Ron, Great to have you on the boat.

I'm the poor unfortunate who has screwed up feet and could not get the Orca2 to fit. BUT I WANT IT, BAD!!! The thing has so much more power and, as far as I could test, no down side compared to my x18, at least none that I could not work around fairly easily. I was more than a little skeptical that it could be much better than the fin I had. Boy was I wrong! More later.
 
Last edited:
Flat feet and bunions @cdavis - sometimes we learn things about each other on the forums we never expect :)
I had left my comment as an anonymous diver... didn't want to write personal info about someone else specific; just the info that pertains to the monofin.
 
Great looking video, good lines.
Narration felt a bit flat, but hey you're an engineer ;)
Audio mix can use a touch up, as the back ground music come on harder in the middle making it more difficult to listen to your speech.
Advance audio editing tip: lower the 1000 hz band on the music, so the music leaves more space for your voice to shine through.
Love the visuals, it looks spacious, gracious, and delicious, to bad you had to miss the tasty fish.
 
...to bad you had to miss the tasty fish.

I got enough in the Bahamas, so no worries. I had no cooler or any any way to clean the fish or cook it at that part of the trip. So, I just gave it a little scare and left him a slightly wiser hog snapper.
 
Nice vid, Ron.

Loved the way you go rocketing by the tank divers, and you are not even going fast.
 
As promised, some more info on the Orca2. For comparison discussions, my x18 is very similar in performance to the Pilot.

Even though my feet had problems, I wore the Orca2 quite a bit. The most obvious difference between my x18 and the Orca2 was the power. The Orca2 is far, far more powerful than my fin. I used it with the same foil as my fin( medium, 30 inch) and with a smaller foil that was non standard. Both had much more power than my fin. I think I would prefer the smaller blade, maybe even one smaller than I used. With the same foil, I seemed to lose some of the "soft fin" feel that is so nice with my x18 and when I really put the power to it, it felt too stiff for my old muscles. Fonduesets advice--don't get the big blade-- is right on. I don't move around fast, but the extra power was very noticeable (and welcome) coming up from deeper dives.

I had added some more flotation to my fin so that I could lie flat on the surface without moving. The Ora2 can be ordered with internal flotation (I was using it) that had the same characteristic. VERY nice for my style of diving. This also solved the issue of the fin wanting to fall faster than the rest of me.

I tested the shorter blade carefully against the x18 in current. Ron is claiming about 10% efficiency increase with the Orca2. I could go much more than 10 percent farther with the same number of strokes, more like 20 percent+. I was trying to keep the strokes the same in number, form and effort, but that isn't exact. Since the fin is "stiffer" I was putting a little more effort into each stroke, but it was clear that the Orca was much more efficient.

Surface diving was very interesting and a little chalanging. I usually surface dive well with my x18, but was having some trouble getting my legs up in the air straight. The Orca2 was even harder, but still gave me slightly better penetration(about a foot with the same weighting.) Either one gets me to neutral buoyancy (15 ft) with no arm pull. Ron can do a perfect surface dive with his Orca2, so its just practice.Both fins weigh about the same dry, but the Orca2 entrains some water that has to be lifted along with the fin. At first I thought this was a disadvantage, since it would be draining out while the fin is out of the water. Close observation of Rons did not show any significant loss of water (and its weight), which should be great for surface dive penetration. Given good technique, the Orca2 should surface dive substantially better than my fin (mine is very good). It will take some practice, though.

The Orca2 is more difficult the move around in the boat when you have it on. The fairing is slick and provides no purchase. Ron solves this by getting in the water with the fin half on and getting out with it off. That doesn't suit my style, so, to me, this was an issue. Ron came up with the perfect solution. I need to slightly modify one side of the boat to allow a backwards entry, like a scubie. should work fine.

Overall, I was highly impressed with the performance of the Orca2. I really like my fin, but the Orca2 is definitely better. It is something of a "sports car" and isn't quite as "no brainer" as my fin, but boy, is the extra care worth it.

Now to figure out how to get my feet to work with the Orca2.

Ron, the power of the Orca2 is so much greater than my fin that it sure seems like more than just increasing the lever arm. Did you do anything to improve the hinge or otherwise improve the angle of attack of the blade to the water?
 
Ron, the power of the Orca2 is so much greater than my fin that it sure seems like more than just increasing the lever arm. Did you do anything to improve the hinge or otherwise improve the angle of attack of the blade to the water?
It is a combination of longer, and stiffer plus streamlining. The Orca2 has a solid aluminum foot plate that does not flex and has excellent power transfer compared to cycling shoes. The suspension system for the fin is different from your X-18 as well, but I think the others are the main contributors.

Here's a little taste of our boat trip to the Bahamas.

 
Last edited:
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT