I agree. I believe that the direction that all technological augments which people create are going in, whether they see it and succeed, or miss it and fail, is toward creating materials/devices which give us greater power/speed/efficiency with the greatest degree of freedom, control, environmental feedback, and with minimal bulk. You just have to ask yourself, "does this remove me too far from the goal of what I am doing?" For instance, exposure to the environment--the water is a large part of the goal in any swimming activity.
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Extreme Dolfinism G2
- Thread starterREVAN
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I don't get all the pessimism before things have even started really... There are so many sub-genres to freediving, and reasons to dive, that it almost doesnt make sense to talk about technology and freediving as one single thing. But I recognize we all have different perspectives 
To me this thread and fin development doesn't need brakes at the moment - just the opposite.
By the way, I just happened to see this funky kayak showing the power of foils, and it blew my mind. Not for practical reasons, but just in itself
To me this thread and fin development doesn't need brakes at the moment - just the opposite.
By the way, I just happened to see this funky kayak showing the power of foils, and it blew my mind. Not for practical reasons, but just in itself
By the way, I just happened to see this funky kayak showing the power of foils, and it blew my mind. Not for practical reasons, but just in itself
Just... woow! It's one thing to see foil-based speedboats, but seeing this on a paddled kayak just took my socks off [emoji15]
Regarding efficiency - if feels to me like body drag is the main limiter - not so much drag from the fins - not even passive drag. I get up to a certain speed and it feels like I hit a point of diminishing returns. I wonder about breakthroughs in suit surfaces - and possibly some simple inserts to reduce turbulence along the back, etc.
All this reminds me - the X20 is superior to the Waterway Nemo - which is my fav recreational fin. (I think I forgot to say that). If you want a comfortable and very efficient recreation fin that won't break - well; there ya go. My comparisons have focused on really good hyperfins.
I'm headed out this morning to commune with the Salmon. West Bay has been fluctuating wildly in temperature, (between 34f and 70f in as little as 6 hours) but it looks to be about 65 this morning, which should be good with my 3 mil suit.
I have to agree there-the times I've gotten to swim with a full skinsuit and a monofin were magical boosts of speed. I haven't taken the leap to shaving off all body hair (daunting task!) and our pool is too warm to swim with a skinsuit even. I may do some swims in the lake to experience the speed difference, but in open water it is much harder to judge as there are no little tiles zooming by. If I could somehow make my body more hydro...yes it would help!
I had the air conditioner go out in the shop this week, and that put me back a few days while fixing it. It is rather uncomfortable this time of year in the workshop without cooling, so that took priority over other things.
As for the Orca2 development, we are in the home stretch now. I've got all the tooling and templates finished and I am working through the first batch of production. I need to pick up more screws and hardware to finish them all off, but it is basically about done. To limit risk, this is a small production run, but it demonstrates the production process and has worked out all the problems that surface when transitioning from development to production. After this, production of the Orca2 should be a fairly smooth process.
On the fun side, I got in the pool again today with the Orca2. Every time I get in the pool with this monofin it puts a big grin on my face. It is nothing short of awesome. In my opinion, performance diving and recreational diving really should go together, because when you get down to it, nothing makes freediving more fun than performance. The new foot strap system is comfortable on the feet and solidly connected. I think it is a big improvement over the original Orca straps. I can hardly wait to start sharing this creation with others.
As for the Orca2 development, we are in the home stretch now. I've got all the tooling and templates finished and I am working through the first batch of production. I need to pick up more screws and hardware to finish them all off, but it is basically about done. To limit risk, this is a small production run, but it demonstrates the production process and has worked out all the problems that surface when transitioning from development to production. After this, production of the Orca2 should be a fairly smooth process.
On the fun side, I got in the pool again today with the Orca2. Every time I get in the pool with this monofin it puts a big grin on my face. It is nothing short of awesome. In my opinion, performance diving and recreational diving really should go together, because when you get down to it, nothing makes freediving more fun than performance. The new foot strap system is comfortable on the feet and solidly connected. I think it is a big improvement over the original Orca straps. I can hardly wait to start sharing this creation with others.
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I picked up the hardware yesterday and finished up the first 6 production Orca Mk-2 monofin bodies today. It took a little longer to get parts than anticipated because they had to be special ordered. They were out of both the screws and the washers that I needed. After much anticipation, here they are in all their glory:
I'll pair these with the fin blades later when shipping.
So the good news is, I have the most important things figured out. I have a design that works really well, and I can make it in reasonable volume. Now, I need to get the paperwork ready, update the website, work on marketing, etc....
I'll pair these with the fin blades later when shipping.
So the good news is, I have the most important things figured out. I have a design that works really well, and I can make it in reasonable volume. Now, I need to get the paperwork ready, update the website, work on marketing, etc....
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Looking good Ron.
Like that I can see the construction, and can see the "mechanics" of the structure... Congrats!
For customers and for sales consider also an option with a paint job looking like the "old" ORCA wich was also very beautiful looking
Like that I can see the construction, and can see the "mechanics" of the structure... Congrats!
For customers and for sales consider also an option with a paint job looking like the "old" ORCA wich was also very beautiful looking
Thanks guys. It has been a lot of work to get this done. I started the Orca2 project last October, so it takes about a full year to develop a new design, field test it, work out the issues and then bring it into production.
Thankfully, I had no major issues this time around. From prototype to production, I made some changes to the frame to make it fit the fairing a little better and added isolation washers and zincs because it seemed like the right thing to do. The X-20 and Orca1 have been doing fine without the added corrosion protection, but it was not too expensive to add this and it "should" make the hardware last longer (though it may take 5 to 10 years to know for sure). Plus, I had not been able to find zincs of appropriate size before, and I finally found a viable solution; I make them here.
I also did another upgrade to the foot straps, and I'm glad I did. The first ones worked quite well, but I like how much easier the new design is to work with. The beta testing indicated I was going to need 2 different strap sizes and selection would depend on the customer's foot size when ordering. Choose wrong and it may not be an optimum fit. Now, both strap sizes are done with the same foot strap and there is a spacer to use to switch from the larger to the smaller sizes. With the new strap design, the customer can just switch the setup if they need the straps to be larger or smaller. There won't me any re-ordering of foot straps because they guessed the wrong size when submitting their original order. Just set it and forget it!
Initially, it will be the twotone smokey black and light frost clear for the fairings. I'll have to see how successful the product is before I branch out, but with enough volume of sales the design can certainly support other colors and custom paint schemes like I had done with my 2012 Orca for the World Championships. So if you like what I'm doing here, please consider supporting these efforts with your voting power as a monofin consumer, and let me know you think I'm doing good and useful work.
More pictures to come....
Thankfully, I had no major issues this time around. From prototype to production, I made some changes to the frame to make it fit the fairing a little better and added isolation washers and zincs because it seemed like the right thing to do. The X-20 and Orca1 have been doing fine without the added corrosion protection, but it was not too expensive to add this and it "should" make the hardware last longer (though it may take 5 to 10 years to know for sure). Plus, I had not been able to find zincs of appropriate size before, and I finally found a viable solution; I make them here.
I also did another upgrade to the foot straps, and I'm glad I did. The first ones worked quite well, but I like how much easier the new design is to work with. The beta testing indicated I was going to need 2 different strap sizes and selection would depend on the customer's foot size when ordering. Choose wrong and it may not be an optimum fit. Now, both strap sizes are done with the same foot strap and there is a spacer to use to switch from the larger to the smaller sizes. With the new strap design, the customer can just switch the setup if they need the straps to be larger or smaller. There won't me any re-ordering of foot straps because they guessed the wrong size when submitting their original order. Just set it and forget it!
...Like that I can see the construction, and can see the "mechanics" of the structure... Congrats!
For customers and for sales consider also an option with a paint job looking like the "old" ORCA wich was also very beautiful looking
Initially, it will be the twotone smokey black and light frost clear for the fairings. I'll have to see how successful the product is before I branch out, but with enough volume of sales the design can certainly support other colors and custom paint schemes like I had done with my 2012 Orca for the World Championships. So if you like what I'm doing here, please consider supporting these efforts with your voting power as a monofin consumer, and let me know you think I'm doing good and useful work.
More pictures to come....
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I got the X-20 allready, and since it seems to be a solid piece of work, I'm "stuck" with it for a long while...
But let's see what happens, this is definitely a step up the latter towards the "dream-fin".
The main functional difference is that the Orca2 floats and the Orca1 did not (unless modified like Eric Fattah's fin). This has several subtle advantages, from reducing breath-up effort at the surface, to adding stability during CWT freefall, to not losing it if it gets dropped in deep water.
The second most prominent difference is the improved design of the foot binding straps. The new straps have a more repeatable fit, hold the feet more securely, should last longer due to less wear & tear on the velcro and they are more comfortable than the original straps.
The third upgrade is better streamlining. So, less drag combined with more leverage (made possible by the better binding straps) means slightly better performance.
Perhaps most importantly, this is a design that I can actually make for people who want it. I won't be turning potential customers away because I cannot afford to make it for them. Eventually, I had to stop making the Orca1 because I could not find anyone else who could make it without losing money in the process. The skills needed to make it combined with the time involved did not make it an economically viable product, inspite of the fact that it worked really well in water. I think the Orca2 will be an economically viable product.
As for the foil, it has not really changed much. Only the foil's suspension system has changed. The new suspension system has a smoother action and is quieter than the original. Usually, the only noise I hear anymore is the sound of turbulent water rushing past my ears. I had tried several different fin concepts and shapes, but nothing tried so far has worked better than the original. So, I'm sticking with what works until I can find something that is actually an improvement. I guess it is a pretty good design, because finding that has been proving difficult.
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Thank you for explaining that. I now understand yet more of the whole Orca philosophy, if I may call it that.
Not sure how much you can or would wish to explain, but the suspension system you use is a point of particular interest. Could you say a bit more in regards to how it functions ?
Also, I know a few people have in the past expressed a wish for different sized fins (which you have done to a degree) but also various shapes. If I understand correctly, you have experimented with various fins and have found the present ones to work the best ?
Not sure how much you can or would wish to explain, but the suspension system you use is a point of particular interest. Could you say a bit more in regards to how it functions ?
Also, I know a few people have in the past expressed a wish for different sized fins (which you have done to a degree) but also various shapes. If I understand correctly, you have experimented with various fins and have found the present ones to work the best ?
The suspension system functions the same as in the Orca1. The difference is just in the parts that do the job. The Orca1 had a metal to metal mechanical angle limit that made an audible click when the parts made contact. That has been replaced with a metal to elastic spring angle limit that feels much smoother and more continuous through the time domain and makes almost no noise. The change also eliminated the metal spurs that stuck out on the Orca1, so the fin looks a bit cleaner now.
I have experimented with, probably about a half dozen, different shapes and sweep angles for the fin. I'm not saying that the foil I have is the best possible foil. I just have not been able to find anything that actually works better for propelling a person through the water. Who knows what I may find in the future? But, I'm using the best system I know how to make right now. Fundamentally, I think it is a good fin design that works really well, is extremely durable, feels good across a broad range of stroke amplitudes and swimming speeds, and it can be made in customized sizes for customers to meet their individual needs. I think people will like it once they are using it.
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Thank you so much for your clear explanations regarding the fin. Word of caution though, people like myself have an endless stream of questions... : )
Having said that, I think I will let you get back to work on your creations and let those do the talking directly in the water.
As always, more pictures are always welcomed. And good luck on the website update...
Having said that, I think I will let you get back to work on your creations and let those do the talking directly in the water.
As always, more pictures are always welcomed. And good luck on the website update...
Ron,
I'd love to get a chance to compare my x18 with the new Orca. If anybody in Florida has one already, could you pm me a name and contact?
Could you compare the relative ease and speed of getting into the Orca compared to the bike shoes of the x20?
Connor
I'd love to get a chance to compare my x18 with the new Orca. If anybody in Florida has one already, could you pm me a name and contact?
Could you compare the relative ease and speed of getting into the Orca compared to the bike shoes of the x20?
Connor
Personally, I like the straps better than shoes. The straps provide a more positive connection with the feet, they last longer and they dry much more quickly. However, shoes look good and they sell pretty well. Also, people already know how to put on shoes, but shoes on a monofin frame, wet and while wearing neoprene gloves are not as easy to work with as when they are separated and dry and using bare hands.
In short, the shoe solution is good from a manufacturing and sales perspective. Straps are better from a user perspective, but that is assuming the user knows how to setup and use the straps.
Here is a short video that shows just how quick and easy it is to adjust the foot straps to customize them for the size and shape of the feet and then put on the Orca Mk-2 monofin. I think this demonstrates a new level of utility and confidence in the fit and function of a high performance monofin that freedivers have not seen before.