finished track gun pics

[jtkwest]

here are some pics of my 140 cm enclosed track gun. it is ipe and teak in a t laminate and it kicks ass!

 

[foxfish]

You can definitely build big powerful guns that look the part but when are you going to make a nice little pretty euro 90 style gun that us Europeans can drool over?
I bet you could if you wanted?

 

[jtkwest]

You can definitely build big powerful guns that look the part but when are you going to make a nice little pretty euro 90 style gun that us Europeans can drool over?
I bet you could if you wanted?

coming next. i already HAVE like 6 short and medium guns. and the big ones cost 1300 to 1700$ for the high end stuff. which i cant affford so i make them instead.

 

[nigelr]

Fantastic looking gun jt.
What did you use for the track?
Is that a Neptonics handle?
Which mechanism do you prefer?
What made you decide on the inverted 'T' laminate?
Regards, Nigel.

 

[jtkwest]

Fantastic looking gun jt.
What did you use for the track?
Is that a Neptonics handle?
Which mechanism do you prefer?
What made you decide on the inverted 'T' laminate?
Regards, Nigel.

hey nigel, i used a delrin insert for the track i got the handle, the trigger, the line release and line anchor from neptonics. i used them because i was told they are 1/2 inch wide and therefore easy to install. you buy a dovetail bit specific for this trackfrom neptonics,(28$ for bit 48$us for track) i have been using a diferent method for my next four guns: i mix west system epoxy with graphite and thickener andpour it in a 1/2" x 1/2" slot that i cut in the straightened barrel, this slot also fits the trigger, so i make a little dam with tape and fill the slot up with mix. except for last 3 inches which will be for the trigger. ken jones,(deathstick) taught me that. he was the one who convinced me to use neptonics.) you then cut your enclosed track into the epoxy/ graphite track i got pics of this in "DIY " section of DB check it out , better than an insert definately stronger! anyway, thanks for your kind words. check out my posts on my ongoing gun projects. oh yeah, i used inverted t lam because that is what daryl wong uses

 

[nigelr]

Thanks alot for your reply kt, really appreciate your taking the time.
I like the epoxy and graphite idea, I have seen it posted by other builders, the consensus seems to be that it is a great sysytem, and certainly more cost effective than the track method.
I'll have to give that inverted 'T' laminate a go, if Mr. Wong uses it, it would certainly be worth investigating.
Cheers and thanks again, some new ideas to think about!

 

[foxfish]

.) you then cut your enclosed track into the epoxy/ graphite track i got pics of this in "DIY " section of DB check it out , better than an insert definately stronger!

So you wont be using a derlin insert again?

 

[jtkwest]

So you wont be using a derlin insert again?

whats up fox? i am trying to do multiple guns at once now. i have 4 straightened barrels and epoxy tracks are poured,(with no bubbles, i might add) on these four, i am using the epoxy mix on this batch. the problem i have with the insert, is: i feel it detracts from the strenght of the barrel . on my guns , i have been trying to make them as horizontally thin as possible. i own a riffe euro, and i love that gun. it tracks,side to side very easily. so, when i cut a 1/2" deep dove tail groove, it is seriously weakening the barrel proportionately to the amount of wood removed,(right?) so now , when i take a 1/2"x 1/2" groove out of my barrel, i am filling it back up with graphite/epoxy mix, i think it makes it stronger than without it. When you take one of my barrelsand try to flex it now, it seems stiffer than before. And all i am removing is approx. 5/16 " tube down the track, which is alot less material removed than with the dovetail. i dont know for sure. i figured i would do this batch this way and see how it goes. so far i have encountered a couple problems: on the first two tracks, when i poured them , i put maybe too much graphite. now i am worried they will dull my new ball mill bit ,(custom, neptonics) when i cut the tracks. it seems that you need to add just enogh to turn epoxy black, i think i put around a teaspoon in each of the first two. on the second two, i put 1/2 that much and the color of the tracks are more like black plastic looking, whereas the fist two are a nice steel grey/black color, but when i put them through the big table saw at work,(with a brand new avanti trim blade too) it SCREAMED! kind of a high pitch whining noise, sorta disturbing. it didnt DO anything to the saw or blade that i could see, but i worry for my ball bit(i paid 48$ and waited 1.5 months for it) so i am doing the other two first and those last. next i have been having trouble getting the barrels really truly straight(i am anal om this point) i have been diong my routing on a table with a fence, so without a perfectly true barrel, your track will mirror the imperfetions, so what i am making is a router slide, i could try to desribe it, but i will post some pics when i put it together again on sunday to do these tracks. i uss about 25 clamps to hold my contraption together, since i dont want to drill hole in my expensive straight edges. essentially what i am doing is making a slide jig, where the router rides down two aluminum straight edges, clamped to a true straight aluminum box beam, also two more stright edges dowm the sides to keep it slidingtrue in the horizomtal plane, and the two vertical ones clamped underneath provide a true vertical plane for the router to slide on. then you simply clamp your barrel underneath thetrack atboth ends , perfectly centering it, using the point finder router bit then a monkey could run a PERFECT track! just turn it on and slide it down till it hits the stop block that i clamp at the approriate stop spot. i put it together last weekend but i was waiting for the ball bit to come. with my system, you could run a straight track in an obviously bent piece of wood. seems like it to me anyway. i had to take it apart because i dont have a garage and i didnt want to leave all my clamps out in the weathe while i waited for the bit to arrive. now it is here, so i am ready to go on sunday,(today i am going spearfishing on my boat. the wind is nne at 8 mph now, which is good for nearshore killing. see y'all later.

 

[jtkwest]

I'll have to give that inverted 'T' laminate a go, if Mr. Wong uses it, it would certainly be worth investigating.
t!

i am pretty sure that is where i picked that up. he didnt tell me personally or anything, i think i read it on his website. i laminated 14 barrels with about 1/2 are t lams with the others vertical lams only. i think the t lams are a little stiifer. if you used a t lam, right side up, the cut a groove down the center, you have removed the center of your top horizontal laminate. that cant be good. seems like it defeats the purpose to me. i try to think of an i beam in construction, it is stronger than a box i think? right ? anyway later man.....

 

[foxfish]

You might consider using a composite "T" section - maybe carbon or ally, that would add strength & rigidity to your stocks. (although they look very strong to me anyhow)

 

[nigelr]

i think the t lams are a little stiifer. if you used a t lam, right side up, the cut a groove down the center, you have removed the center of your top horizontal laminate. that cant be good. seems like it defeats the purpose to me. i try to think of an i beam in construction, it is stronger than a box i think? right ? anyway later man.....

Yeah makes good sense kt, I'll give it a go on my next glue-up.
Your sliding router jig sounds like a winner, great idea.
Cheers.

 

[jtkwest]

You might consider using a composite "T" section - maybe carbon or ally, that would add strength & rigidity to your stocks. (although they look very strong to me anyhow)

yeah, thats kinda the next level. i was checking out sea sniper guns,(awesome) he uses a perforated steel plate in the center of his laminates.THAT sounds to me the best idea. but to do it, you have to rout two laminates to recieve it.part of me wants to do it , because it is the maximun possible thing to do.it just seems hard to come up with the proper metal piece and stuff. when you say composite, what do you mean?(i know the LITERAL meaning, i just am wondering precisely what composite you were thinking of? carbon fiber , laminated like fiberglass could work, but i have NO experience with this. i have done some fiberglass work on my boat and it is pretty easy, but i would try to locate an autoclave to do it,(the maximum!) see what i mean? i kinda am obsessive. basically, if i can think it i can build it, i usually can. so far i just have not gotten my brain around the whole carbon fiber thing. mostly i spend days and nights thinking about this router slide. when that is over maybe carbon fiber will be next obsessive compulsion. BTW: my 15 year old son got a nice black grouper today, his biggest fish so far. 34" and about 20#, we had grouper tacos last night,pics are in florida/ spearo section of DB. you guys killing anything across the pond? later............

 

[jtkwest]

Yeah makes good sense kt, I'll give it a go on my next glue-up.
Your sliding router jig sounds like a winner, great idea.
Cheers.

nigel, good luck, post some pics of your stuff, when you can, i would love to see them. BTW my name is jason t or dickhead or whatever..LOL... i made this stupid email address and now everyone thinks my name is kt or jk or something..LOL.. anyway, its jason or j or jt or something along those lines.
peace out....

 

[foxfish]

I was thinking about making a "T" out of carbon fiber matting & epoxy resin, pretty easy to make I recon.
You would just need a very simple jig or mold IE a couple of bits of wood covered in plastic sticky tape & clamped together.

DeeperBlue Forums
That is a ally T but carbon would be better.
I would then screw the first stock lams to the T & then glue the rest in place.

 

[nigelr]

No worries Jason, keep up the excellent work man, good to hear your son got a nice fish. My 18 yo is outdoing me now, but at 52 I'm happy enough with that!
Cheers and will post some pics when I've got something to show, our season is just about to start hear, the long-awaited clean warm water is drawing closer each day!

 

[jtkwest]

I was thinking about making a "T" out of carbon fiber matting & epoxy resin, pretty easy to make I recon.
You would just need a very simple jig or mold IE a couple of bits of wood covered in plastic sticky tape & clamped together.

DeeperBlue Forums
That is a ally T but carbon would be better.
I would then screw the first stock lams to the T & then glue the rest in place.

do you think that carbon fiber is strong in that configuration? what about just putting strips of CF between the laminates? and then again do you even need it? is it just overkill? seems like it could be useful if it allowed you to make a horizontally slimmer barrel ? BTW:is that stuff expensive?

 

[foxfish]

Like you I am not that sure about using carbon either but I am very familiar with fiberglass & I think using thin strips might help the gun lateral rigidity but considering they make bows & fishing rods from carbon I dont see it helping the gun from flexing?
However a T section made from carbon will be very rigid & light.
Probably not necessary but o so coool.

 

[jtkwest]

i'll try it if you dont,(providing the stuff doesnt cost too much) west system epoxy is expensive enough. do you treat it just like fiberglass? should i use polyester boat resin, instead of epoxy? its alot cheaper. i had an idea of making the outer most laminates in my 6 piece vert. lam about 3/16 longer than the center ones, leaving a little pocket on the bottom of the gun, where i could lay strips of CF. the problem,(as i see it) with this plan, is that it lays the CF horizontally, instead of verticall, which may not provide flex resistance in the correct plane. what you think about that? also, your idea of a t shape would work definately, my only worry is it seems to do it correctly, you would need to press it HARD! plus maybe an autoclace to get rid of all air bubbles. it is my understanding that stuff laminated through an auto clave is exponentially stronger than not. how about making a rough T and actually cutting the perfect T shape out of your finished product?

 

[foxfish]

Jason 2" carbon cloth is not expensive 1 - 9 mt rate (ent mt req) 50mm Carbon Fibre plain weave tape - 200g fibreglass, glassfibre, epoxy, polyester resin, fibreglass supplies, grp suppliers & you would only need a small quantity of epoxy.
I think it would be really cool to at least try & make a 4' length of carbon T just to see how stiff it would be.
You wont need to much pressure just moderate force on a G clamp.
I would mechanically fix the first lams to the carbon.

 

[jtkwest]

i'll get some and try it out.