Fins like they used to be

[Mr. X]

I recognise the pair with the swift logo for some reason - are those still available? The ones I recall most from the 70's are jetfins but I know quite a lot of divers still use them (OMD, Foxfish, military,...). I love those violet(?) Japanese fins - they're so good at making stuff - & the blue/white "mimetec" Ukranian ones.

DRW do you ever get consulted by movie/TV companies/costumers looking to get period-correct equipment?

 

[DRW]

You list them as hard compared to the Delfins but my seem very soft. Perhaps its vice versa with the Delfins being the harder of the two? I wouldn't mind investing into a pair od somewhat harder all rubber fins and might consider getting the Delfins if they're indeed the stiffer ones.

There are two types of Delfins, similarly shaped but made by different manufacturers in different colours. One is the multicoloured kind made by Alphaplastic of Moscow. It has a very soft foot pocket and a flexible blade:


The other Delfin is made in solid black by Yaroslavrezinotechnika. I don't know how flexible this fin is, but it looks much stiffer than the Alphaplastic one:


As for the Akvanavt, the light blue pair that I own have a soft foot pocket, but the blade is quite stiff, certainly much more rigid than the Alphaplastic Delfins I also own. Of course, individual fins of the same make and brand can and do vary in stiffness, depending on the blend of rubber used.

 

[DRW]

I recognise the pair with the swift logo for some reason - are those still available? The ones I recall most from the 70's are jetfins but I know quite a lot of divers still use them (OMD, Foxfish, military,...). I love those violet(?) Japanese fins - they're so good at making stuff - & the blue/white "mimetec" Ukranian ones.

DRW do you ever get consulted by movie/TV companies/costumers looking to get period-correct equipment?

Mr. X: I love those Japanese fins too. They come in a wide range of solid colours, including white. They are indeed still available, though distributed only in the Far East. I have a pair of black Gull "Hard Mews" which I obtained through the good offices of a contributor to ScubaBoard Forum. The logo on the Japanese fins is a seagull: the company which makes them is called Gull MSC. They have an illustrated catalogue in PDF format, downloadable from their website at
GULL ---???????-- -

As for the blue/white marbled fins, those are Russian-made Alphaplastic Delfins. Ukrainian fin-makers cut them up to create soft foot pockets for monofins. Other people just remove the base of the heels of the Delfins to create open-heel bi-fins. I like mine just the way they are, closed-heel and closed-toe, and that's the way some Russians like them too:


Jetfins were developed as full-foot fins in the early 1960s by Beuchat of Marseilles then marketed as open-heel fins in the USA by Scubapro. They remain indeed the choice of many divers four decades after their invention, in spite of, or perhaps because of, their weight and stiffness.

And no, I've never been consulted by anybody in the media on the subject of the period authenticity of diving gear. I can certainly spot anachronisms in films, though. One Hollywood movie set in World War II, whose name escapes me, had a team of divers wearing Jetfins, twenty years before they were invented!

 

[Mr. X]

...The gist of what I'm saying is that here in the West modern diving equipment manufacturers tend to narrow choice by making their products mostly out of oil derivatives, while other parts of the world can still access articles made from natural materials. Taking street clothing as a point of comparison, it's as though every tailor in the country had decided to discontinue pure wool suits, concentrating instead on the manufacture of polyester suits.

I'd like to see more choice so that I can pursue my hobby with fins that continue to be made the way they used to be.

Interesting points. Although wool is greener is some respects, many synthetic materials are long lasting and have lower energy requirements for cleaning, for example, some suit can be now be machine washed rather than requiring expensive dry clean with noxious chemicals, like carcinogenic (i.e. cancer causing) carbon tetrachloride.

Although usually a fan of natural products (rubber for fins makes a lot of sense - as you may recall I have some fins that are almost 34 years old & still useable), I am more sceptical of wool and cotton than most. Both have been heavily promoted for clothes over an extended period with expensive advertising campaigns - to such an extent that most people buy into it, even when their own experiences contradict it. Some might argue that sheep destroy fauna (they appear to have eaten all of the local, protected cowslips) and cotton is generally produced using huge amounts of oil-based agro-chemicals. That's not my gripe though. My own conclusion from years of mountaineering is that natural fibres have no place on the mountains (even though George Leigh Mallory's tailored Everest tweed suit and silk longjohns performed impressively well, even, compared to modern materials). They're heavy, hold sweat/rain/damp, cause blisters, often coarse, often "hole", deteriorate, often hard to clean, hard to dry, not windproof, not waterproof. Although, strangely, synthetics often smell worse with use (Helly Henson tops - poohy!) unless treated with anti-bacterial/fungal chemicals .

 

[DRW]

I'll take your word for it, Mr X, when it comes to mountaineering gear! I'm glad you've taken up my point about natural versus synthetic materials. I hope my original post didn't sound too Luddite; I actually love new science and technology, so long as it is directed at improving the human condition or extending knowledge of the world in which we live. Where I part company with certain of today's manufacturers is when they automatically equate innovation with progress. Now I'm retired I've become a little sceptical about the idea of progress, because on closer analysis some technical innovations turn out to be a trade-off, a compromise, one step forward and two steps backwards, rather than a win-win quantum leap.

 

[Mr. X]

... I actually love new science and technology, so long as it is directed at improving the human condition or extending knowledge of the world in which we live. Where I part company with certain of today's manufacturers is when they automatically equate innovation with progress. Now I'm retired I've become a little sceptical about the idea of progress, because on closer analysis some technical innovations turn out to be a trade-off, a compromise, one step forward and two steps backwards, rather than a win-win quantum leap.

Too often these days I see new "innovations" which are actually backward steps (e.g. halogen bulbs vs. fluorescent tubes ) or significantly deficient (we were discussing shutter delay times on digital cameras yesterday for example). Of course there are many useful innovations (more medical science & computers/internet seem the big things in my lifetime) but there is a lot of duff stuff too. It's amazing what can be sold with clever marketing & expensive advertising; I saw somebody selling high price seaweed based cosmetics products on TV yesterday -- no doubt bought by folk who wouldn't touch seaweed it you gave it to them for free!

 

[chrismar]

trux, I stand corrected then! Any idea how to get hold of a pair here in the decadent west?

I'm not sure how good the Gull fins are for UWH. I've only seen one player with a pair locally and it looks like the blade area just isn't big enough for hockey. I'll see if I can pinch them for a swim some day though.

 

[Aldan]

Great topic. I also remember and used Najada fins. I had a great luck to be a military scubadiver during my military service in 1996-7. Najada fins were in my standard diving equipment (SP20), as well as old rubber mask (I don't remember the name), very rigid neopren suit (if it was neopren)... All the things were quite old-dated, still working though. Obviously I survived... .
2-3 years later the military scubadivers got better equipment if I remember well.

 

[trux]

trux, I stand corrected then! Any idea how to get hold of a pair here in the decadent west?

Well, as DRW wrote, a Hungarian company makes repliques, and even some sprint variants (that did not exist then) - you can order them here: Debreceni Búvárklub

Martin used the original Najade (AFAIK). The closest to them, at the Hungarian company, are the Najade Standard at the bottom of the page, although the original was black. However, the original Najades were relatively soft, so for UWH the sprint variants may be better. I used the original Najades for UW rugby, but it was just because there was practically nothing else available in that time.

 

[DRW]

trux, I stand corrected then! Any idea how to get hold of a pair here in the decadent west?

I'm not sure how good the Gull fins are for UWH. I've only seen one player with a pair locally and it looks like the blade area just isn't big enough for hockey. I'll see if I can pinch them for a swim some day though.

If I may step in . I presume you're referring to Hungarian-made Najade fins. You can order them from the Debrecen club. There are two models, one open-heel (Speed), the other full-foot (Standard). The latter is a replica of the Naiade fins used in the GDR. Here's the club's English-language web page about the fins, with an email address to place an order:
Debreceni Búvárklub

As for the Japanese Gull fins, the Gull Mews are quite long and Hard Mews have particularly stiff blades. Warp fins are even longer. I've included photos of both models in post 8 in this thread.

 

[EcchiK]

Thank you very much for teaching me of this really cool japanese company! I love the fact that I work for a japanese company. There's always someone going to Japan for some reason or another, so I know I can get some stuff pretty easily....now I just need to decide what I want :t

Now, regarding the topic of the retro-fin. I'm far too young to be aware of any of these fins...wonder what the next 25 years will bring...

EDIT: Umm......38.000 yen (400 euro) for their Gull barracuda line of fins.....I think I'll pass. For that money I can get a pretty decent monofin to play with.

 

[DRW]

Thank you very much for teaching me of this really cool japanese company! I love the fact that I work for a japanese company. There's always someone going to Japan for some reason or another, so I know I can get some stuff pretty easily....now I just need to decide what I want :t

Now, regarding the topic of the retro-fin. I'm far too young to be aware of any of these fins...wonder what the next 25 years will bring...

EDIT: Umm......38.000 yen (400 euro) for their Gull barracuda line of fins.....I think I'll pass. For that money I can get a pretty decent monofin to play with.

It's a pleasure to share my online research. The Gull Barracuda is Gull's most expensive line in fins:


By way of contrast, Gull's Warp fins cost less than half the price of the Barracudas, while their Supermews and Mews cost much less than even that amount.

 

[chrismar]

Cheers guys. Those look like they're worth considering for underwater hockey. Mind you, I've got a pair of Breier glass fins now that they'll be hard pressed to top...

 

[DRW]

If anybody's interested, here's an update on the long-bladed all-rubber fins I mentioned at the beginning of last year's thread, still manufactured by the Turkish company Adalilar Kauçuk, probably using the original Mares Concorde moulds. Back then I only had access to a low-resolution picture of the fins, but I have now chanced upon a much higher resolution image. The fins are priced at 95 Turkish Pounds, which is about 45 Euros, and available in five sizes, 38-40, 40-42, 42-44, 44-46, 46-48. I have no idea whether these fins can be purchased outside of Turkey.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Lazuli]

Wow, wicked fins.
I've always dreamt of getting hold of some all rubber fins as I like very soft blades.
Part of me always wanted to get a pair of black rubber Voit DUCK FEET fins for the sheer retro frogman look. Seems like they are pretty rare outside the US though.

 

[DRW]

Wow, wicked fins.
I've always dreamt of getting hold of some all rubber fins as I like very soft blades.

The beauty of all-rubber fins is that you have a choice of hard, medium or soft blades. I once tried a pair of the original US Divers Otarie fins (below in a tricolour version), not their softer modern incarnation, and found the blades as stiff as boards:

Part of me always wanted to get a pair of black rubber Voit DUCK FEET fins for the sheer retro frogman look. Seems like they are pretty rare outside the US though.

Do you mean these Duck Feet fins:

Buy $69.99 Voit UDT Fins Duck Feet Vintage Scuba Diving Masks
Vintage Scuba Supply in the States are selling brand-new Duck Feets at the sale price of $69.99 and they can be ordered online from abroad. I've purchased several items from the company over the years, all of them shipped inexpensively for me to the UK.

 

[Lazuli]

:inlove:inlove:inlove Bingo!:inlove:inlove:inlove

They are the ones!

Thanks for the link. I'd love a pair.

However, Duck Feet do look like murder on the feet, probably stiff as hell with chafing to boot.

What do you reckon....?

 

[DRW]

:inlove:inlove:inlove Bingo!:inlove:inlove:inlove

They are the ones!

Thanks for the link. I'd love a pair.

However, Duck Feet do look like murder on the feet, probably stiff as hell with chafing to boot.

What do you reckon....?

I'm sure you're right, but the fins have, or at least had, many enthusiasts. I believe Swimaster/Voit tried to get round the problem of skin abrasion in the pioneer days by (a) making "flipper slippers" to wear under the fins:

and (b) by making a softer full-foot version of the fins:


Some users of these fins had their own solutions, including wearing thick hiking socks under them.

 

[Lazuli]

Spoke to vintage scuba. About $118 Dollars - £74 for Duckies to the UK including shipping. If I was more of a connosieur of retro I'd fork out.

 

[bilgeh2o]

I have the modern version of the Voit Duckfeet. Got them at Ebodyboard.com. They are the fin of choice for big wave body surfers. I have not had any issues with chafing etc. Wear them barefoot for pool workouts and with a 4mm sock otherwise. Very comfortable. I like them better than my Cressi 2000's or Picassos for comfortable fit. Lots of power.