Fins vs Flippers ;)

[ComputerBoy]

Hi there,
Is there any one here call those longies "flippers"?

As a freediver in particular and a diver in general, I'm used to the "fins" as a basic equipment. But got into the pool, many ones called my longies "flippers", which made me sad for a while Then I've come to a conclusion:

• Flippers are those shorties for swimmers, and
• Fins are those longies for divers. Again,
  • Long fins are those extra-longies for freedivers compared with those
  • (normal/short) fins for scuba divers.

Do you agree?

Please share your story about "fins vs flippers." Are swimmers in your region using (/calling) "flippers" or "fins"?

P.S. A little surprise when no one here on DeeperBlue talk about this topic while there are lots of such "Flippers LOL" topics on ScubaBoard.

 

[DRW]

Well, having earned a degree in modern languages 45 years ago, I like nothing better than talking about words and their meanings. I have to admit that I've never heard, at least here in England, of the term "flippers" being confined to swim workout fins. In my experience, since the pioneer age of "underwater swimming" in the 1950s, both terms have been in use, normally interchangeably, whether in the context of swim training, breathhold diving or scuba diving. And personally, I'm perfectly ready to deploy the expression "flippers" for my long-bladed fins when the circumstances are appropriate.

First, I'll reproduce my own message from that ScubaBoard thread you linked to:

Germany, Russia and Malaysia are three countries with national standards for fins/flippers:

DIN 7876. Tauchzubehör. Schwimmflossen. Maße, Anforderungen und Prüfung. Diving accessories for skin divers; Flippers, requirements and testing.

ГОСТ 22469-77. ЛАСТЫ РЕЗИНОВЫЕ ДЛЯ ПЛАВАНИЯ. Общие технические условия. Swimming rubber flippers. General specifications.

MS 974:2002. Malaysian Standard. Specification for rubber swimming fins.

The German and the Russian Standards use the word "flippers", not "fins", in the official English version of their titles. Only the Malaysian Standard uses the word "fins".

Furthermore, English is not the only language with two words for fins/flippers. For example, modern Greek has Πτερύγια-pterugia (fins) and Βατραχοπέδιλα-batrachopedila (frogfeet), while Brazilian Portuguese has nadadeiras (fins) and pé-de-pato (duckfeet). Both formal and informal words are used in both countries in diving equipment retail contexts.

When it comes to word pairs like these, I'm now very much on the side of the descriptive linguists, who examine people's usage in their geographical and historical contexts and report on what they find. The older I get, the less truck I have with prescriptive and proscriptive linguistics, which delights in telling other people which words they must or must not use. Let's remember too that the term "free diving" itself is just a translation of the French term "plongée libre", a coinage to distinguish all kinds of underwater swimming from standard diving with brass helmets, canvas suits, lead boots and surface air supplies. In the 1950s, therefore, "free diving" covered both breathhold and scuba diving:

All three books with free diving / divers in the title have pictures of scuba divers on the front!

Returning to the, I hope, forthcoming "fins/flippers" debate, one of the contributors to the ScubaBoard discussion pointed out that Cousteau himself was prepared to use the term "flippers" in his patent application. And I've heard the argument that fish have fins while sea mammals have flippers and we are mammals. But let's reserve judgement until we take account of the context in which either term is used:

 

[ComputerBoy]

DRW, thank you for your deep analysis about the term "flippers!"

So as a descriptive linguist, would you please share your experience about people's usage of the word "flippers". I don't ask you to judge, just share your objective knowledge plz.

My personal experience is that I never heard/read "flippers" in diving community, but usually in swimming community.

I know that originally "flippers" and "fins" are equivalent. But English is a living language and its usage is continuously changing every day. And when quantity change has been enough, the quality change naturally occurs. Maybe the diver community is strict about the consistency of the usage of the term because that's a basic equipment for them. And maybe the swimmer community doesn't care of the term's usage. So maybe early, but I propose to confine "flippers" to swimming short fins just to make it easier, at least for divers, to distinguish the fins, instead of the long phrase "swim training fins."

 

[ComputerBoy]

Oh @DRW, would you please make clear your "appropriate circumstances" for "flippers" in the following paragraph.

In my experience, since the pioneer age of "underwater swimming" in the 1950s, both terms have been in use, normally interchangeably, whether in the context of swim training, breathhold diving or scuba diving. And personally, I'm perfectly ready to deploy the expression "flippers" for my long-bladed fins when the circumstances are appropriate.

 

[DRW]

You're right, Computerboy, that usage changes over time and that was my point when I cited the example of "free diving". In the 1950s that expression wasn't specific to breathhold diving. Nowadays, particularly in its single-word form, freediving normally signals the more ambitious varieties of breathhold diving.

Usage relating to "fins" and "flippers", on the other hand, isn't determined so much by time or even by activity. My observations lead me to believe that usage depends on the individual and, crucially, on the context. People outside the diving and swimming community are likelier to say "flippers" because they may consider "fins" too technical or formal. Authority figures within the swimming community, such as instructors teaching student swimmers or divers, are likelier to say "fins" because the word sounds more "professional", "formal" and "scientific" and it is the term commonly found in swimming and diving manuals. However, that covers only a few contexts. There is the issue of peer to peer communication within swimming and diving and I would bet "flippers" would be the expression of many there and also when a diver/swimmer is talking to a non-swimmer/non-diver, e.g. asking a friend or sibling: "Have you seen my flippers?" There usage of "fins" might sound a little formal, if not pompous. Overuse of technical language by those in the know when conversing with those not in the know creates an unequal partnership and may build resentment.

I do occasional presentations for student teachers in an area other than diving but where there is still plenty of jargon. I often find myself circumventing the jargon when speaking to non-specialist audiences because it can easily sound bamboozling and take the audience's minds off the topic. The trick is to get the central message across without confusing or patronising the audience. In a diving context, if I found myself in a conversation about fins where everybody was using the term "flippers", I for one wouldn't be jumping in and correcting everybody's usage because it's likely the result would be the whole conversation ending at that point. An interesting conversation would be prematurely terminated simply because somebody wanted to be pedantic or score points.

All I've written above is opinion, of course, and hence highly subjective. To make up your own mind, do some research of your own and go on to YouTube and listen to the videos where swimming coaches discuss the benefits of fins/flippers. Then listen to what the swimmers themselves say in their "What's in your swimbag?" videos. You'll find that the coaches mostly say "fins" while some swimmers say "fins" and others say "flippers". There are no hard and fast rules.

 

[ComputerBoy]

DRW, thank you for your information!

Actually I haven't heard swimmers (athletes) call "flippers", but the laymen swimming in the pools. So it's clear to me that " 'fins' is too much a technical" as DRW suggested. Because I've never heard "flippers" in divers community, when I heard someone in the pool say something like "Oh, your flippers are so loooong! Your legs must be very strong, huh, bla bla..." then some sound popped up in my mind like "Oh dud, you don't know a thing! This is not flippers for leg training, it's pronounced 'long FINS'!!!", but I just smiled.

About YouTube videos, I've almost never watched swimming ones, except some videos in finswimming for referencing their monofin technique. And the most detailed tutorial on monofin technique is "Tutorial Training Monofin" where "Drills with flippers" are spelled out. Because the word "drill" is so "swimming", the word "flippers" thus imprinted in my mind an impression about "swimming" too. Anyway, watching "What's in my swimbag" videos, as DRW suggested, is so funny, not because someone call "flippers" but because some ones put all sort of (swimming unrelated) things in there!

 

[ComputerBoy]

Because the word "drill" is so "swimming", the word "flippers" thus imprinted in my mind an impression about "swimming" too.

Wow, reading my own post above reminds me about another word "drill." Just like "flippers", it should not be confined to swimming anyway, but that always sounds too much "swimming" or "soldier" to me! I think freedivers usually just simply do training or exercise... But now I re-think... maybe that because I haven't enter the competitive freediving regime. If someday I decide to "upgrade" from recreational freediver to a freediving athlete, I must do drills too. Hics, it sounds terrible to me... like a drilling sound in my head!

 

[SubCurrent]

Fins sounds so much cooler than flippers. As a free and scuba diver, I say fins. People who don't dive call them flippers. Do you call a fish tail a flipper? NO! You call them fins. [emoji4]

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[SubCurrent]

If you ask me about flippers, I'm going to assume you mean the remotes on the coffee table. [emoji6]

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