First Post, Newbie Experience - The Virgin Shot

[Blesum]

Hi all,

I've been reading here for a while now ever since I picked up a cheap JBL gun and started splashing around in the ocean off of Southern California. I used it a couple of times where I got a halibut and a few Calicos. I read here that the JBL was wimpy and that the "cool" thing to do was to swap out the stock bands for heavy duty bands. Well, I wanted to be cool!

I ordered up the thicker bands. I was hoping that my trigger mechanism would still work, but I never got to find out because I broke my muzzle trying to shove the new bands in... band first! I now realize I was supposed to slip the wishbones through the muzzle and then slide the bands around. THAT should be a sticky for the incredibly dense like me. :head

Well, it turns out that nobody stocks the JBL muzzle around here (has to be ordered) and that the hammerhead reef muzzle (which was to be my next upgrade) doesn't fit into the barrel. There was only one thing left to do... Get a new gun! :inlove

After a spearo named Mark in a store near the San Diego airport informed me that he would sell me a Rob Allen gun for 30% off, I made a beeline for home and scoured the posts here for reports on this gun. Once I determined that it was indeed a good gun, and that the 90cm size would be ideal (all-around reef gun) I went back to make the big purchase. I also got a float line/buoy to go with the gun as I was scared of losing the gun.

After buying the gun, I headed directly over to the Scripps Pier at La Jolla, and swam out, expecting to just get a feel for the new gun in the water and learn to shoot and load it up a few times. I saw a couple small rays, some schools of sardines on my way out. Some starfishes and perches hanging out on or around the pilings.

I then tried to load up the gun. Good God, how the hell do you guys do it? I'm pretty strong if I don't say so myself. I add on weight plates to my dipping belt for doing pull ups at the gym. This was hard! And these were the 16mm bands. I've read that some of you guys run 20mm bands. Holy Mackerel! I could only get the forward band in. :martial The shootling line was in the way of getting the 2nd band into the notch and I gave up on that. Or maybe I wasn't getting it all the way to the 2nd notch. I don't know - I couldn't see it with the handle pressed all the way into (felt like it was going through) my chest. Okay, fine, one band it is!

Less than 15 minutes later, I was at the end of the pier and in about 18' of water. Visbility was about 10'. I was trying to figure out how to properly make a U-turn without causing problems with my floatline when out of the depths, a shape emerged...

It was an yellowtail! I didn't even know if the gun would work and shoot. Would it shoot high or low? Sideways perhaps? Maybe even explode? Like a gun slinger in the old west under a harsh noonday light, I casually raised the gun and my trigger finger tightened.

Bang!

The spear flew through the water, striking right behind the gill plate and going through the spine. No fight whatsoever, it just started sinking while shivering.

28 pounds. Virgin shot. Newbie.



Pleased to meetcha.

-Blesum

 

[Mr. X]

...I then tried to load up the gun. Good God, how the hell do you guys do it? I'm pretty strong if I don't say so myself. I add on weight plates to my dipping belt for doing pull ups at the gym. This was hard! And these were the 16mm bands. I've read that some of you guys run 20mm bands. Holy Mackerel! I could only get the forward band in. :martial The shootling line was in the way of getting the 2nd band into the notch and I gave up on that. Or maybe I wasn't getting it all the way to the 2nd notch. I don't know - I couldn't see it with the handle pressed all the way into (felt like it was going through) my chest. Okay, fine, one band it is!

...
28 pounds. Virgin shot. Newbie.



Pleased to meetcha.

Please to meet ya too Blesum! Wow what a super first fish!

I have a similar speargun to you, same size too but with just a single 16mm rubber (Sparid rather than Tuna). Loading is largely down to technique, although some brute force certainly does no harm. The Rob Allen website includes instructions on loading & there is a video with similar footage on the internet too. Also the Len Jones book shows two techniques. The basic idea is that you grab a band, place the handle into your chest pad, grab the other end of the band with the other hand and pull together (for v. longer gun, you might need to walk the first hand up after getting the second hand in place). I am able to load to the second notch w/o problem now, although it doesn't seem necessary for our relatively small fish so I usually load to the first. I think the difficulty with the second notch (apart from the spear line) is not so much the stretch of the bands but how close in it is to your chest. I have a spare 20mm rubber but would prefer another 16mm -- I don't see any lack of power and loading might become hard (although you're supposed to use a longer band with thicker rubbers ...and as Pastor recently reminded me: technique!). We've been discussing bands for the RA over here: [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=606505"]When do you change your rubbers? 20mm vs. 16mm[/ame]

Rob Allen loading instructions link: http://www.roballen.co.za/load.html

 

[miles]

Hiya

FABULOUS fish!!!

With a first fish like that, seems like your gun is destined for great things!!

Regards
miles

 

[schlegs]

Blesum,
Nice work. Questions: What was the range on your shot and what model Rob Allen gun do you have?

I'm here in Japan, Okinawa to be precise, which is an island well south of the mainland. We have tons of reefs here and I routinely see 30lb snapper and grouper - problem is, I'm "undergunned".. They are always just out of range of my little Beuchat Arka 500 reef gun (I'm also a newbie and lacking in any technique whatsoever other than the newbie flail)..

Looking for an all around reef gun that must be maneuverable and have great velocity and range - the water is very clear here. Would you recommend the Rob Allen?

Schlegs

 

[Blesum]

Thanks everybody for the welcomes.

Mr. X, your posts were mostly what convinced me the 90cm RA gun was a good buy. Also when I realized that I wasn't able to load the 2nd sling, I remembered that you were running just one 16mm sling on yours and seemed to be happy with it. So I continued into that Yellowtail. :friday

My chest is tender - I don't have a chest pad since I use my regular 3mm surfing wetsuit. There has got to be a less painful way to do this.

Yesterday evening I went out again, and noted that I can't turn the safety back on. I did not get an owners manual with the gun, and am stumped on how to turn it back on. In my garage I gently tried to pry the safety tab back forward with a screwdriver but it still wouldnt move forward (it still will recess into the gun, but not forward) Any advice?

I'm also curious about regular maintainence - would it be a good or a bad idea to squirt some WD-40 (water displaying oil spray) on the gun after using it to prevent rust and to help lubricate moving parts?

Schlegs, this is a good gun, but bear in mind that the shootling line is only 10' or so, which is pretty much the max of what the visiblity is like around here. If you have much better visiblity, you could always go with a longer gun which will give you more range but be less manuverable. My impression of this gun so far is that it has excellent velocity. With both bands notched (I was able to manage it twice yesterday evening), there is a strong recoil, and a strong jerk when the spear gets to the end of the shooting line which indicates there's still a lot of power when it gets to the end of the shooting line. With your arm, the length of the gun and the length of the spear, I figure you're looking at about 15-17' max range before the shooting line stops the spear dead in it's tracks.

-Blesum

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks everybody for the welcomes.

Mr. X, your posts were mostly what convinced me the 90cm RA gun was a good buy. Also when I realized that I wasn't able to load the 2nd sling, I remembered that you were running just one 16mm sling on yours and seemed to be happy with it. So I continued into that Yellowtail. :friday

Really ..wow, glad it worked out so well:friday

My chest is tender - I don't have a chest pad since I use my regular 3mm surfing wetsuit. There has got to be a less painful way to do this.

Re. loading pads: I tried a few things (like mousepad & computer wrist rests) but the best advice I got was to use the sole of a flip-flop/thong-sandal. It actually works better than a loading pad being thicker & stiffer (at least the one I was given was). I suspended it from a bandalier made of 1" tape (from a car roof rack rachet system, it's like climbing webbing but much thinner) under my wetsuit. I have an Elios wetsuit now, which I made sure came with a loading pad!

Yesterday evening I went out again, and noted that I can't turn the safety back on. I did not get an owners manual with the gun, and am stumped on how to turn it back on. In my garage I gently tried to pry the safety tab back forward with a screwdriver but it still wouldnt move forward (it still will recess into the gun, but not forward) Any advice?

I'm also curious about regular maintainence - would it be a good or a bad idea to squirt some WD-40 (water displaying oil spray) on the gun after using it to prevent rust and to help lubricate moving parts?

The best advice I received was DO NOT USE THE SAFETY CATCH - after all, the only safe gun is one with slack rubbers. I missed my second fish, a decent bass, because I had ignored that advice & put the catch on. Lesson learnt. This is discussed by those much more experienced than myself on at least one other thread...so we're talking about all band guns. [The RA safety is hard to use with gloves on (& gloves are recommended for spearing) -- it was probably designed not to get in the way...it's the sort of feature that sounds necessary when you first look for a speargun (& is therefore required to sell) but really isn't a good idea in practice.]

Re. maintenance, you might want to check with RA but the distributer told me no maintenance of the trigger mech. is required when I asked the WD40 question. I think it is all stainless steel & plastic (I believe they also upgraded the type of s/steel used in some parts with the new handle). Just rinse all your gear in fresh water after diving, at least that is what I do. I try to keep the trigger mech out of the sand as I have heard other spearguns makes have had problems from sand. The trigger mech. is removable & replaceable, but I have never removed & don't expect to. Just enjoy it!

Schlegs, this is a good gun, but bear in mind that the shootling line is only 10' or so, which is pretty much the max of what the visiblity is like around here. If you have much better visiblity, you could always go with a longer gun which will give you more range but be less manuverable. My impression of this gun so far is that it has excellent velocity. With both bands notched (I was able to manage it twice yesterday evening), there is a strong recoil, and a strong jerk when the spear gets to the end of the shooting line which indicates there's still a lot of power when it gets to the end of the shooting line. With your arm, the length of the gun and the length of the spear, I figure you're looking at about 15-17' max range before the shooting line stops the spear dead in it's tracks.

-Blesum

If Schlegs has v. good viz, perhaps a 110cm RA (their original size I am told) or a classic SA 120cm might be an option?! Miles posted a good series of articles on this (or check out the cool table on the Sumora website).

 

[Blesum]

Dang, and I just threw away a pair of flip flops! I'll try that out with another pair. Thanks for the tip.

I already emailed RA about the safety and spraying oil. Oh well.

I grew up around guns (the kind that shoots bullets) and put a big importance on the safety. It just makes me feel comfortable.

At the end of a diving session, do you unload the sling or do you just shoot it off? Yesterday I found that I couldn't unload the slings so I ended up just shooting it off into empty water.

-Blesum

 

[Mr. X]

...I grew up around guns (the kind that shoots bullets) and put a big importance on the safety. It just makes me feel comfortable.

To some extent, that's true for me too. I was brought up on "A Father's Advice". However spearing is different. Here is one of the discussions on the safety catch issue, starts half-way down the page: http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=572197&highlight=safety#post572197
(I believe one of the contributors is a former UK champion & another is on the sport's national governing body. However, I was originally given the advice by a very experienced SA spearo.)

...At the end of a diving session, do you unload the sling or do you just shoot it off? Yesterday I found that I couldn't unload the slings so I ended up just shooting it off into empty water.-Blesum

I unload. It hasn't really occured to me to fire, the thought of having to put the spear back & sort the spearline out...It can be a bit like pushing out that last rep. though & I probably grimace at the thought of it. I guess with 2 bands, I suppose you'd have to do it twice:hmm. Best thing would be shoot a fish while on the way back in I suppose!

(Let us know what the RA Divefactory say about the WD40 question)

 

[Blesum]

Do spearo tourneys require a functional safety? Are there any laws or regulations on having a safety?

I recall reading somewhere about some people who take out the safety assembly on their guns to use it as a place to put a part of their breakaway systems.

I pretty much only shoot what I really want to eat. Every time I dive I see 20-40 fish that I could shoot and eat, but they don't appeal to me as I'm picky.

I'll let you all know what RA says once I hear back from them.

-Blesum

 

[IB Boyd]

Nice fish! I think the RA 90 is a great gun for shore diving San Diego. I have a 90, as well as a 120 and 140 for boat/kayak use. As far as the trigger, I just wash mine of realy well with fresh water hose. I also pull the spear out and shoot some water into the mech to flush it out. Sand can get in there on the shore dives, as you crawl out of the water. that is probably jamming up the saftey. Have heard various opinions about wd40, I do squirt some on my spear from time to time, just for rust prevention purposes. As somebody else said, I beleive there is a gun loading tutorial on the RA website. I think the important thing is to get that gun but all the way up in the center of your chest. Some kind of loading pad definetley helps. Once you get the hang of things, loading is a snap. I have most of my bands shortened a bit. Congrats on a sweet fish.
Boyd

 

[Blesum]

I've been looking at the gun and thinking...

Since the spear almost penerated all the way through a thick YT with just one sling, and 95 of my fishing will be done on thin halibuts and the rare calico/sheepshead when I feel like shooting, I'm thinking about going to just one 16mm band to improve manuverablity and reduce the likehood of breaking a spear on rocks, or a bad riochet off of the rocks.

Yea or Nay?

If yea, the next question is, which one of the two should I remove, and which notch should I use.

For manuverablity, I think I should remove the forwardmost sling. But for that additonal bit of insurance power-wise, I should leave the forward sling in and try to pull that one all the way into the rearmost notch on the spear.

What do you guys think?

-Blesum

 

[Blesum]

I'm also thinking of peeling off that big-ass sticker on the barrel of the gun that says Tuna 900, Rob Allen, Rail Gun. I would think that having only a black barrel would improve the steath and hiding ability of the gun. Any reason why I shouldn't remove that sticker?

-Blesum

 

[IB Boyd]

I would leave it at two. Look at it this way...if you hadnt stoned that fish, and the spear wasnt all the way through, he probably would have pulled of in the fight. But with two bands on, it might have gone through. How close were you? My gun is set up w 2x16 bands. If you are fairly close to a calico or sheephead, and worried about dinging your shaft on a rock, just put it through his head, that will slow the shaft down. I shot a 16 inch calico this weekend from about five feet from the muzzel, and it didnt string him.
Sticker? totaly ok to take it off, if you are so inclined

 

[BatRay]

Great job! Don't worry, I too struggled with my JBL Custom. I sat there wondering how the band would fit through that little gap

Looking forward to hearing more of your hunts.

 

[Blesum]

Allright Iboyd, I'll leave both bands on. Thanks for chiming in about that.

BatRay, now I feel better.

I got an email back from Rob.

Hi XXXXXXX,

You wrote...

I purchased a new 90cm gun two days ago. I did not get an owners manual with the gun and I am wondering if the store was supposed to give me one?

Sorry they don't come with an owners manual, actually no one has ever asked. I'll look into a small swing tag info for all our guns sometime.

I also can't seem to get the safety to turn back on. I can still press it into the top of the gun but it will not slide forward. I nearly folded my thumbnail trying to slide it back forward. Please advise.

We have had a few that seem to have slipped through with this problem, easy to fix though, speak to Matt on mjones@aquastralis.com

He can send you a replacement cassette which you can easily replace yourself. If that is a problem and you are mechanically minded, you can fix it yourself. If you want to attempt this I'll send you info on how to do it. Here in South Africa most don't want the safety to work and block it off so it can't go on. They feel there is nothing worse than seeing that trophy fish and not being able to pull the trigger because the safety has been left on. This happens to most new divers at some stage who keep the safety functional. From a safety point of view it is always best to make the gun safe by unloading the rubbers and not to rely on the safety itself.

Also I can't seem to find any maintainence information on your website. Would it be a good idea to spray any kind of oil into the trigger assembly once in a while or grease anything? Or should I just leave it alone?


The only thing you need to do is wash well in fresh water and leave to dry before packing away. Any oil or grease in the mechanism will cause dirt and sand to stick inside and can then cause a jam up.

Regards,
Rob.

Below his response was an email from Matt:

Dear XXXXX

Further to the email from Rob Allen on 21 August 2006 please be advised we can arrange a replacement mechanism for your 90cm gun.

Kindly supply details of the store where you made the purchase as well as you address and phone number and we will arrange a replacement mechanism immediately.

Please contact me if you have any further queries.

Kindest regards
Matt Jones

Well, talk about excellent customer service. :inlove

I think I will go ahead and replace the safety mechanism once it arrives, and then install a tab of some kind in there so that the I won't make that mistake everybody talks about with a prize fish. That way if I ever sell it, or if I travel with a service, or dive at an event that requires a functional safety, I can just pop the tab out and activate the safety.

-Blesum

 

[Mr. X]

Looks like IB Boyd can offer you some good advice for the type of fish you are encountering.

However, I will try to answer your questions in case you have some other reason to remove a band (e.g. visit the UK!...although judging by the plentiful fish you describe there, it seems more likely that we'll be visiting you!).

The Sparid (& Caranx) version of the RA railgun has the double muzzle but only one band the top one (/front one), like in this picture: http://www.roballen.co.za/guns.html

- so I would use that one. Although it might be easier to add & remove this one, which I think has a slot that you could slip the wishbone through without breaking the band loop (if you wanted to be able to switch from single to double band, or vice versa, quickly). You can load to either notch. I use either notch, probably the first notch most (it seems to manage full penetration of fish upto 5.5lb without any problem) but I am increasingly using the second notch, as I get more adept at loading.

Of course there are a couple of other options. The Caranx approach - fit a single 20mm rubber. The power should be somewhere between a single 16mm & double 16mm in theory (I think one recent thread called this into question). Several spearos expressed a preference for a single 20mm band in threads last year, mainly because you only have to load one band, which is less hassle and faster.

I think I would stick with what you've got for now. It's a v. nice, flexible, powerful set up and you will gradually find & develop your own preferences. If you decide to take one band off, it could become a spare (some suggest storing them in a sealed bag in the freezer to maintain their elastic properties).

 

[Mr. X]

...
I think I will go ahead and replace the safety mechanism once it arrives, and then install a tab of some kind in there so that the I won't make that mistake everybody talks about with a prize fish. That way if I ever sell it, or if I travel with a service, or dive at an event that requires a functional safety, I can just pop the tab out and activate the safety.
...

Makes sense, you'll have a spare mech. too! How bad was the safety? Was is very difficult to engage or impossible? I don't think it is an issue for comps. the guys suggesting this on the other thread take part in international competitions (I believe one post actually suggested entirely removing the safety mechanism in one case, can't recall the make of the gun).

 

[Blesum]

How bad was the safety? Was is very difficult to engage or impossible?

Impossible. After the first time I used it, I could never get it to engage again.

-Blesum

 

[surfinsd]

Hey Blesum. (It's David from Encinitas). There's tons of info on here.

 

[Blesum]

Hi David,

I went out to CR this afternoon but didn't see you out there (unless you were the guy on the lifeguard foam surfboard with the handles). Didn't see much, but bagged a decent calico for dinner anyways.

-Blesum