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Question First underwater swim today

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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grarena

Active Member
Jan 19, 2019
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Let me set this up. I’m 62. Good swimmer but not a competitive swimmer. 6 months ago started playing with dry static apnea. Reached a 6 min hold as pb. Now today I decided to do underwater on 1 breath in Olympic length pool.

For weeks now since no access to a pool I’ve done walking apnea. Managed a 2 min walk but that’s the limit. Most 1:05 with 20 sec recovery X 8.

Now today I did a 25 meter swim on first attempt. After some warming up managed with much difficulty a 50 meter swim on 1 breath. Pleased. It was the limit. I had a spotter. It took 1:06.

Now to improve I’d love some opinions on what’s next. Goal. 100 meters which seems impossible at the moment.
 
These things contribute to long dynamics: neutral buoyancy, sleek wet suit, technique, relaxation, practice. Of these things, technique is probably the hardest - you've got to learn efficient stroke and long glide.
 
I tried to get more efficient in my short stint and found i did with practice. I tried to slow it down. In fact the slower I swam the longer and further I could go. I used a bathing suit. No wetsuit but I imagine that would help. Buoyancy I was able to stay below the surface despite a pretty full breath. I’m 6 feet and 175 so not much fat so that probably helped keeped me submerged. As for relaxation that was key. The more I did the more I realized I’m ok despite horrible diaphragmic contractions. Is there any secrets to long and efficient stroke and glide? Thanks for response.
 
Watch youtube videos to see how the pros do their stroke. Then try it yourself. Get a gopro camera and video yourself - observe your mistakes and make corrections - repeat. The main thing for beginners is to keep your head down/level - there is a natural tendency to look forward to see where you are going - but you must fight this tendancy and look at the bottom - use lane lines to judge where you are.
If your swimsuit is loose fabric boxer/surfer style then try a tight speedo style - you'd be suprised the drag caused by fabric flapping in the water.
You say you are able to stay below the surface - but maybe try to better measure that. Take a full breath, go to the bottom and see if you float up at all. If you are floating up, then when you do dynamics you will be wasting effort with each stroke in pulling yourself back down. You may not really be aware of this wasted effort until you try a weight belt and get truly neutral. I was amazed when I got my first weight belt in how much easier and relaxed I was underwater. I highly recommend getting a weight belt.
Are you doing dynamics with or without fins?
 
What a great response. No fins. Loose bathing suit. I am watching the bottom line of pool so good there. I’m sure I’m wasting energy staying down and don’t realize it. Weight belt would help I’m sure. 1-2 pounds? What do you use? Since I’m lean and slightly muscular I won’t need much to keep me down. A person with a lot of fat will tend to be more buoyant. I’m 6 foot 175. These are wonderful tips. I was very pleased with 50 meters underwater first time out with no training and those additional things you added to my reportoir will be beneficial. Fins I’m sure would be great but seems like a cheat?
 
Regarding buoyancy - it varies alot from person to person, I don't really understand why. I float like a cork unless I'm weighted - even when I was young and skinny. But I've seen videos of people doing statics on the bottom of the pool in the "lotus position" with no weight - they can stay on the bottom without any motion or effort. So bouyancy is a personal thing and you have to find your own neutral point.
For me, when I don't have my wetsuit on I use about 3 or 4 pounds for dynamics at about 8 feet deep.
I addition, when doing pool work you are in very shallow water and even slight changes in depth will have a large effect on whether you are neutral or not.
If I'm in the 10 foot lane and then have to move to a 5 foot lane I have to add weight to keep neutral.
So you have to do this - find the depth you want to do dynamics in and then stick with that depth. Then using that exact depth, take a full breath, add some weight and see if you stay neutral at that depth - add or remove weight to find your neutral point. And then if you change depth later on then you will need to change weight again.

Regarding fins - dynamics are done 3 ways, and using fins is not "cheating" - however with proper technique you will be able to go further with fins.
The 3 dynamic styles are: 1. no fins, 2. bi-fins (fin on each foot),and 3. monofin (both feet in a single dolphin style fin).
With bi-fins you can do flutter or dolphin kick.

Here's a fun thing to do hone your dynamic skills - try to see how few strokes you can use to do a 25 meter length.
The idea is to stroke and glide efficiently as possible. You have to bring it all together to be good at it.
You push off, do a stroke and then glide as far as you can and only stroke again when you have stopped gliding.
This will also highlight buoyancy because you won't be able to glide very far if you float up or sink down.
I saw a video of a guy do this in one stroke - he did an efficient powerful push off the side, glided to the middle of the pool, did one kick/arm pull and then glided to the other wall. I've done it three strokes.
 
Wow. Let me tell you how inefficient I am. It took 12 strokes to get to 25meters which makes me wonder not just about my inefficiency of stroke but also poor buoyancy which is worse than I realized I think. Also I dont use a wet suit. These factors combined would help. I’m assuming 1 stroke for the guy on video and your 3 stroke to 25 meters was fin aided? I guess with my inefficiency all things combined I should be happy with my 50 meter performance.

I don’t swim much. Never really. All my training has
been with apnea walking. I think it did prepare me somewhat and it’s a good useful tool I’ll continue using. In addition I’ll start weight training to mimic the muscle use of breast stroke for upper body. I guess squats and lunges good for legs. You have been a great help. Thanks again. Can you tell me your pb for static, fins, no fins?
 
Well, me doing a 3 stroke dynamic is hard and I can't do it every time - even 4 is hard. And yes to do this I had wetsuit and weights. I did it no-fins. The thing with fins is that they get you moving and keep you moving efficiently - but for gliding they actually cause drag.

Yep, 50 meters is very good for someone who has never really tried and doesn't even have all the good equipment.. If you practice, get a wetsuit, fins, weights, you will be at 75 in no time. All they exercise and weight lifting is good. To be a good freediver also requires flexibility - most of the pros do yoga.
And the very best thing to do is get underwater. No amount of out of water drills can match what you learn in the water.
I'm no freedive expert - just enjoy being underwater. My personal best static is 5 minutes in bed, 4 minutes in water. I've done 75 meters dynamics a few times (bi-fins, dolphin kick) and 50 meters ( no fins, like you). My new goals are are 100 meters and a 5 minute in water static. But I need a buddy!
Wish you lived nearby!
 
Yes. Finding people like us is hard lol. So my best static is 6 min. I think I can get to 6:30-7:00. It was dry. I assumed a wet static would be better with diving reflex but maybe I’m wrong? I’m 62. Just truly started playing with this 6 months ago. I do lots of statics dry. Like most days at least a 5 min dry static hold. Usually that’s on the 3rd or 4th try. Like I’ll do a 2 min hold warm up. Rest 1 min. Do a 3 min. Then turn it loose and do 5 or 5:15. That’s 3-4 days a week.


CO2. I’ll do it as well sometimes same day. Today 1:30 hold. 1 breath only. 1:30 hold. 1 breath again. 8 times. So 1:30 8 times 1 breath between. This isn’t easy. I play with different Co2 tables. I get bored with them. Never bored with a long hold. I like it. Its relaxing and finally a big urge to breath I’ll look at my watch it’s 4 min. Then it’s how long do I want to suffer and hold on lol. Usually by 5:15-5:30 I’m done. I think I can break 6 min but it’s been tough.

I’ve done traditional Co2 tables too they as I said they are boring. I’ve tried all kinds of variations. I know is it’s a good workout. I’m dying it was a good one. Maybe a slight exaggeration.

Thanks again. My name is Gregg Arena. I’m an anesthesiologist. No water training really. Used to run long distance races so maybe that past helps me but I’m such an infant in this.
 
Hi Gregg - John Campbell here- age 64. Your 6 min statics are unusual - most people, including me, will never get there. I like doing statics too - very relaxing/meditative. Also like CO2 tables - "one breath", like you do. You may or may not find water statics easier. Everyone is different and has a different dive reflex. For me being wet does not seem to help much, but depth does - the pressure seems to do it.
 
It’s a pleasure buddy. If you follow football you guys just signed Mark Ingram to ravens. I’m a big saints fan and LSU fan. I appreciate your input. Have you ever participated in events? I wouid consider competition especially a wet static. If I couid reach 7 min consistently I’d do it. It might be breaking 6 min will be harder than I think tho. I was always naturally good at breath holding. 3 min was easy but never pushed it til 6 months ago. You like the 1 breath too I see. What’s your hold times? I’m assuming 1:00-1:30
 
Nope, don't follow football much.
I never did a competition. I do my one-breath on 1:20 counts. I should probably bump it up to 1:30 because I usually can finish a set of 6-8 of these.

If you could do 7 mins in competition that would put you in rare company. When you did 6 minutes, were you blacking out at the end, seeing stars, ringing in the ears, gurgling bowls? If not, then you probably still have some capacity left. In competition you actually want to push yourself to blackout - but not actually blackout because then you are disqualified. Also in competiton you have to state your goal, and if you can't make it then you are also penalized. So the key is to know yourself and your limits.
 
1:20 is good with 1 breath. Those last 1 breaths like 7th and 8th are less relaxed and controlled aren’t they lol. Try 1:30 at least the first 2-3 then switch to 1:20.

When I did 6 min I had no weird things like that. Didn’t feel I would black out. My goal was 6:00 min so once I get there I was so happy I quit although didn’t feel I couid go longer but I’m sure I couid. No doubt 6:30 I will achieve. I’ve never blacked out actually. I just hoped in a competition with diving reflex I couid add another 30 sec or more? You didn’t find it helped you in water tho. After a short time doing this I think getting to 7 min might take at least a year. Not sure. I love doing this. People ask me why I do it? Because I can. I wanna say because you can’t lol. 2 things I’m focused on. 7 min hold. 100 meters underwater. Both will take a year I think.
 
Yeah, the last two in 1 breath table are hard! But it's weird, the 1 breath tables kind of feel good too, I just sort of go with the contractions and they sometimes are almost pleasnat - I think its because you get to take a breath every so often. And yeah, I get off on long breath holds too. Not sure why - just feel compelled to do it.
 
Do you ever apnea walk? I’m curious. It’s the only training I’ve done for my 50 meter swim which is lame lol. The best I can do is a 2:00 min apnea walk and I’m about to pass out. I realize to get good in the water I need to be in the water but that’s not possible often. I can apnea walk at work as an anesthesiologist between cases lol. Also when swimming at what point do you go for your best that day? Like 25 meter warmups about 2-3 and then go for it?
 
I tried apnea walks a couple of times, but it doesn't really appeal to me. I don't remember how long I went but I'm sure it wasn't 2 minutes.
For my best 75 meter dynamics I would warm up with some 25s then 3 or 4 50s and then went for the 75. After doing 75 I'm really wiped out - too tired to try more. I want ot be able to do 3 or 4 75s consistently, then move onto 100s. I guess doing apnea walks in a hospital is pretty safe, lots of help there if you pass out and fall over. I'm sure the other anesthesia providers would be shocked at your low O2 sat! Intubate this man!
 
Haha yes. After my 50 meter swim I was done. I tried to do a static right after for fun. After 1 Minute I had to come up. I was shocked. Yes people look at me funny doing apnea walks. Look doing a 75 meters is badass. Good job
 
Wow. That’s impressive. Thanks for sharing.
Yesterday I did 2 breath holds of 5:15. I feel like in the next month I hope to beat my PB of 6:00 and get to 6:30. The 5:15s weren’t easy but I felt I had a good bit left on me so I’m pleased with the progress.
 
5:15 is awesome as far as I'm concerned - my best being 5:00. I did some tables yesterday too ending at 4:00, which for me is probably the same as you doing 5:15! I also was playing around with the one breath tables - decided to try 1:30 but instead taking 3 breaths - so really a 1:30 3-breath table. And it was pretty easy. So it seems that the difference between venting just one breath versus three has a dramatic effect on your recovery. Next time I want to try two breaths.
 
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