Fish are back

[Fondueset]

Awesome fish! Alot of my pictures are in Grand Traverse bay - which is largely sand - at least where I did most of my diving last year. The shots in Lake Michigan are mostly rock bottom - some Marl and large boulders but mostly rounded fieldstone like rocks about the size of a softball starting about 100 yards out - you can't see the muscles for all the green hairy algae but they become more evident with depth. It varies though - sometimes there are riverlike swaths of marl, sand or zebra muscle shells. It actually sounds pretty similar to what you describe - depending on where you dive.

I've heard the Zebras concentrate heavy metals and other toxins - hence not too good for ducks. I just read the quaga muscles carry botulism... A dnr guy I spoke with says drums have been eating zebra muscles for quite awhile - evidently they've got grinders in their throats.

I'll look into the quaga muscles - haven't seen them yet. Strange business these heavy ecological changes.

That lake seems really green!

 

[land shark]

Hey guys, how about a salmon tag! ya pay as ya go. Seeing how its suppose to be a sure thing according to the anglers.

 

[fleedermouse]

Well it was only a matter of time before the next big invasive was discovered. Salmon-alewif-shad-Zebras-ruffe-gobies-quaga.

These lakes have been declared dead in the past and they may well again but nothing's forever. This clearly sucks but I'm not ready to accept the fact there will be no fish:head. See, I'm just getting into freediving and spearfishing. I've been doing abalone/dungeness and rockfish for a couple of seasons here in Oregon/N. Cal and now I am heading back to Michigan. Was really hoping that I'd hear we could spearfish for any species but I think it's only carp.

Fondue-

Do you know all the rules up there. I'm probably moving to Grand Haven and I was thinking the same thing about shaking up the regs there. It wouldn't hurt to make some friends in the DNR and try to get something changed. Salmon are hatchery fish and it would be so freakin fun to hunt them. I doubt very many people would actually do it and the impact would be minimal. We have to be extremely diplomatic of course to make it work.

Maybe I should bring a few razor clams with me when I move back rofl. That would be an invasive I could live with.

Sorry if I hijacked this.

 

[Fondueset]

Carp, sucker, gar and bowfin. Bowfin are good for making thermometers. Gar can be hunted with a good pair of gloves, and carp are large, long-lived bottom feeders - good candidate for toxins not to mention not all that tasty. That leaves suckers and the rumour is they are not bad eating - fish advisory indicates they are among the cleanest depending on area - they don't even make the list up here.

It's not up to the DNR - it needs to get in front of the legislature - pm me your email and I'll pass my correspondence with them along to you. I'm definitely down with coordinating a movement to change the regs. There are so many salmon they are practically environmental pollution! My so far (such as it is) push has only been for lake michigan and adjoining waters. Alot of it is educating people - anglers in particular - about spearfishing.

 

[Jon]

As far as the fishing rules go, each state sets up it's own limits and species list. When it comes to the Great Lakes, like Lake Michigan, they take the most restrictive rules from ALL of the surrounding states (Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin) and apply them to the WHOLE lake. It will take more than just one DNR offic to approve of such a venture.

As I mentioned before, I've had a VERY long conversation with a local game warden, who is also a freediving spearo, and he HAS propostioned the powers that be with the idea of a slamon tag, single fish limit, while freediving only, and got no where with it. He basically asked them to come up with whatever silly kind of rules they wanted, just give us the chance to try it, but was ignored on the whole issue. In the end he does all of his spearfishing on trips down to Blieze and just does the angler thing up here.

Jon

 

[fleedermouse]

OK so how do the gar pike taste? Guess for the time being I'll have to enjoy the scenery and target practice with the carp. Sent you an e-mail.

 

[fleedermouse]

Wow, that is a disheartening story Jon. I remember the politics of the area and we are infinitely more open to public discourse here in Oregon. The multi-state and international mgt. of the big lakes makes things very difficult as well. Maybe it's futile but I can't help but look into it when I move.

 

[Fondueset]

My plan is to make a little noise about this and see if it starts to go anywhere. My main angle has been the uniqueness of the environment and the possibility of an - at-least-locally significant tourist business. This is a resort area so the locals are geared toward that - getting them on board could start sort of a snowball anyway. I'm not optimistic but it's worth a try.

Never tried Gar - they are way too cool looking and weirdly docile to shoot anyway.

 

[Jon]

Fonduset,

If you can get that opened to spearing Ted and I will come over and do it with you. I've dove over there on there wrecks more than once and it has been opened up quite a bit as a choice wreck diving spot- especially Whitefish Point. No reason why people wouldn't go there to be able to spearfish. I still won't hold my breath on that happening.

I wouldn't want to shoot, or eat a garfish. Drum are considered a rough fish over here and aren't too bad to eat if you don't want to eat a carp. I am not sure how Burbot rate on the rough fish scale, but they are basically a freshwater cod and very tasty to eat- but not too good after they have been frozen for some reason.

Politics are pretty screwy around here. Wisconsin used to be know as one of the cleanest political states in the nation, but ever since Tommy Thompson was governor thing have gone down hill pretty fast. Right now it seems as if all of our elected officals, form both parties, are facing at least some jail time. Not trying to make this a political debate, there are other websites for that, just not holding out any of hope to get anything changed for our benefit.

Actually, I've seen just the opposite. We used to be able to spear in Devil's Lake, once of the nicest lakes in the whole state, but that was outlawed about 3 years ago. Too bad because the fish tasted really good out of the lake since it was so much cleaner than our local ones.

Jon

 

[Fondueset]

Mark Labocetta has said he might show up too.

'Wecome to the Omer Midwest Open' (well, I can dream!)

Fleeder - I've forwarded you the i/o from the dnr.

I just wrote a local guy who's chairman of the game commission or something - we'll see what he has to say.

 

[Amphibious]

Burbot are AWSOME deep fried in a thic beer batter. Mmmm.........

if youca get permits for salmon on a spear I'll drive down too! would love to stick one of those things

 

[spaghetti]

Dear Jon and Fondueset, i'm sorry you have so many problems. In the lakes of northern italy, where my parents live and where i go spearing sometimes, we may spear any sort of fish, except during the reproduction period of each species (only sturgeon is protected and forbidden). We also have competitions: there's a national freshwater spearfishing championship; the best four qualify for second category national champ's in the sea.
Animal activists, scuba societies, professional fisheries and pole fishers sometimes try to set attack on us, but we have a strong Federation defending our rights. Lucky we are, the spearfishing federation is a branch of the same national pole fishers and scuba federation (FIPSAS: italian federation for fishing sports and underwater activities, all in one), so any argument is solved pragmatically as an internal affaire.
In exchange for being respected, we have to pay a license for spearing in lakes (60 euro per year), we must give our contribution in money to keep the stocks of fish (don't know how many thousands of eels and trouts are bought from breedings and dropped into the lakes), and we must respect a very "ethic" complex of laws:
-pay license
-no spearing during reproduction
-maximum 5kg fish per day
-no scuba hunting, no torch, no night spearing
-stay far away from beaches and ports not to disturb tourists and swimmers
But the main reason why they let us spear in peace, is mostly because the environmental situations is really f@@#d up in our lakes, and not for the fault of the spearos: millions of allogen pest fish are poured in every year for the business of professional fisheries and for the fun of pole fishers. Dams go up and down with no natural rationality, just for the needs of water from intensive agriculture and electricity plants. Everyone has so many ghosts in their room, that they don't dare to forbid spearfishing: that would open a public debate, call the attention of the people about what's really happening in our lakes. And those who hold the power would have too much to loose.

 

[Jon]

Hmmm......

Maybe when things turn really crappy around here they'll open things up to us?:head

Some of the stuff I've seen from the "sport fishing" crowd is pretty bad. The bottom of the lakes are filled with beer cans and bait containers- out of site out of mind. One of the worst things I saw happened when diving along the breakwater in Lake Michigan. We have "smelt fishermen" who use dip nets to catch these little fish called smlet- which are really good if you deep fry them. They do their fishing at night and attract the fish with bright lights powered by car batteries. When the batteries burn out the just toos them into the lake- nothing screws a lake up faster than a used battery. On one dive I counted 17 car batteries thrown in by fisherman- the same people who would bitch about me spearing!

Paying a fair share in stocking costs and licensing fees, plus whatever 'sane' restrictions they want to put on us, would be fine if they just gave us the opportunity to give it a shot- pun intended.

Jon

 

[spaghetti]

But isn't there a federation or something like that aht could be officially entitled to make a try to change the rules for you?

 

[fleedermouse]

The problem is the structure of the system in the USA. Money has come to control more than it ever should here. Lobbying and interest groups matter only if they have the $ and connections. Our only resource is public opinion. This means bad news for spear fishers. It is all too easy for the sportfishing groups to paint us as bad in the eyes of the public because we are an obscure group who shoots fish for fun. The fact that we are getting our protein in a relatively ecological way is benign to the American public in general. Things are especially complicated with Great Lakes management issues because there are let's see...8 states (I think) as well as Canada with dibs on the resource. Demi-Rant over.

 

[Baka]

are there any tournaments for rough fish over there in Wisconsin? Here in Washington at my little town there are two or three carp derbys a year to try and keep the population managable, and these are all funded by the anglers, no politics or legislature involved

 

[Jon]

Hey guys, how about a salmon tag!

I see now that our own Vice President doesn't bother to get the extra tag for what he hunts so I wonder what would happen to us if we try that?rofl

Baka,

I don't know of any offical tournament, but some friends of mine and I have been holding our own unoffical, but still legal, one for a few years now. We have just called it a "carp shoot" in the past, but Brian might be onto something with this "Carp-A-Palooza" thing.

Jon

 

[unirdna]

But isn't there a federation or something like that aht could be officially entitled to make a try to change the rules for you?

The problem isn't lack of organizatoin, it's lack of interest. As Jon mentioned, we get considerable "resistance" from fisherman. They consider it cheating. Truth is, if spearfishing was the primary way of harvesting fish, hook and line would be cheating. And if spearfishing was the ONLY legal method to harvest fish, our gamefish populations would be considerably more robust.

Despite the (ironic) U.S. obsession with professional sports and Olympic gold, this is a fat, sedentary country. You have a federation, because you have interest, because you have a population of people who do not eat themselves into a wheelchair.

 

[Jon]

"Despite the (ironic) U.S. obsession with professional sports and Olympic gold, this is a fat, sedentary country. You have a federation, because you have interest, because you have a population of people who do not eat themselves into a wheelchair."


That's so funny you say that because I was just listening to a chariman of the US winter olypmics talking about how the US has never gotten a medal in the Biatholon. He thought that a country such as ours, with such an extreme love of guns, could put together a couple of guys who could shoot straight and win something. Maybe it seems that there are guys who can shoot straight (just not our V.P.) but they can't get off their butts to do the skiing part.rofl

Last time Ted and I went spearfishing in Pearl Lake I ended up having a big argument with some richboy, dumbass, who thought he owned the whole lake. He wanted to call the cops on use for spearfishing, which was totally legal, and I would have let him expcept it was the end of the day and we had to drive 2 hours home. I was pretty ticked that I had to leave and wasn't able to let the cops explain the LAW to him. He probably thought he won that argument when we just simply ran out of time.

Hmmm..... I think I just figured out a GREAT spot to have our fall fish hunt- right in front of his million dollar lake home!

Ted has even more examples of idots we run into out on the lake- the guy dropping "F-bombs" in front of his 7 year old is one of my favorites. :t

Jon

 

[DeepThought]

What are F-bombs if one may ask?