Float Comparison

[w3ac]

I think I might be the biggest advocate for the RA floats. I absolutely love em! Low drag, good visibility, foam filled, eh.. right on brah! I posted earlier that I saw a Picasso inflatable folded almost in half by the run of a 30 pound Ono (wahoo). That in itself turned me off about inflatables. True that they're easy to travel with but I would hate to see them dragged under water. Oh, I forgot to mention that the Piccaso was still on the surface and was already deformed. Foam filled lifeguards are sturdy, high vis, bouyant, but frickin heavy! I would stick with the RA's, two or three depending of what you're hunting, and a bungee for blue water. I can't afford my 100 foot Norprene bungee yet but this combined with three RA's and I want to see just how big the fish will be that will stretch 300 feet and then pull 3 RA's under. As far as connecting them, I used to use a section of thin latex tubing (the kind for a hand spear) stretched over about 3 feet of parachute chord, then clip one in front of the lead float and between the lead and second. This worked but I have since done away with the shock absorbers between the two and just clip the two floats together. The first mini bungee will take most of the shock of hitting the end of the line. I heard that line "I just stone em" before. Props to those who stone most of their fish but this is pretty hard considering the spine is usually about as thick as a finger and the brain shot from the side is about twice the diameter of a quarter. Combine these and a 15-20 foot shot at a moving target in the blue and again props to those who stone em. Whatever you decide, good luck and make sure you got enough flotation.

Brad :martial

 

[ivan]

hi

Totally agree cant beat ra foamies.

cheers

 

[icarus pacific]

you knew it was coming...

Sure you can... just get a Riffe.

Actually, the trick way to use an inflatable float for differing situations is to increase or decrease the amount of air in them. Leaving a bit of air out will keep the thing's profile down- always good when the wind is hootin'. Blow the beejeezus out of it when you hit some open water or you need to skip the thing over the kelp or have the thing fend itself off a structure.

This will act like a bungie too where the less air in it lets the fish submerge it a little bit easier and maybe help the shaft from tearing out on the initial rush(es). Having a fully blown up float is akin to the shaft being stopped by a panic break, and with white sea bass and soft fleshed fish, and those inevitable mis-hits, that's the last thing you want.


sven

 

[Griff]

inflatable floats

Does anyone have any idea what pressure you can blow up an inflatable foat to? I've seen the rob allen inflatables and they have a car tyre valve for inflation. it seems like a good idea because if you can blow it up to about 3 or 4 bar, thats a long way down before the float will compress.

 

[Iyadiver]

Griff,

Thats a good question, 3-4 bar. I am sure the car tyre type of valve can handle that but can the seam and joint on the inflatable material of the float handle that ? 45-60 psi is a lot of pressure.

It is interesting if say it can even handle 45 psi, meaning it will not change shape or shrink at 60 feet or less.

Anyone can confirm RA inflatable float pressure rating ??

 

[icarus pacific]

yeah, but who wants to stop off at the gas staion to fill your float? And again, you fill a float too much and it acts like a kite in the wind, and there's already to much going on...


sven

 

[Griff]

Im implying for those travelling who want a float that you can flatten and pack away, but wont compress at depth.
also, i dont see how inflating the float too much will make it like a kite, unless it really bulges from the pressure, and gets bigger. once the float is fully inflated, like its reached its full size, the 3 bar extra pressure will make it heavier, albeit probably negligible

 

[fuzz]

Originally posted by Griff
i dont see how inflating the float too much will make it like a kite, unless it really bulges from the pressure, and gets bigger. once the float is fully inflated, like its reached its full size, the 3 bar extra pressure will make it heavier, albeit probably negligible

You're right on with the size comment. A fuller float sits higher in the wind & the added wind resistance can be a pain in the butt at times.


As for air being heavier

 

[Griff]

Originally posted by fuzz




As for air being heavier

like i said its negligible, shadowkiller can probably work it out , but whats important is that its not lighter

 

[icarus pacific]

wha? :head


sven

 

[fuzz]

I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume by "negligible" you mean "non-existant" :hmm

 

[Iyadiver]

Typical float of 11-17 liters with 60 psi of extra air won't weight any extra............. too little to count. A 3,000psi tank with 80 cubic feet equivalent of air weighs only about 1.5kg extra of air weight.

It will be quite a surprise if RA uses car tyre valve type, I thought all inflatable only use oral inflation type of valves ?? However it will be a good technical spec if it can be pump at 45 psi, but then as Sultan Sven says, you need at least a bicycle pump to do it if not a gas station. Bicycle pump is cheap anyway.

I think non collapsible float has its place as long as space permits and not for common travelling.

I have seen and mess with only 3 types of floats, a Picasso, an Omer with jacket material ( model I don't know ) and a Riffe. Of all three I will use a Riffe ( I own one anyway ). The Picasso is the worst toy like unit, the material is the kind my baby float uses and the air valve is also the cheapo toy like. Omer ( the one I seen ) is basically the same as Picasso but it has an outer cloth jacket to take the load of a running fish. I think it will survive a pull better than a Picasso. I have never load my Riffe float with any decent size fish but the scuba BCD type material it is made of seems the most strong of all three.

To think of it, IF the price difference is only US$100 extra among many brands of float, I will choose the most robust money can buy. Simple calculation, my 60" x 3/8 shaft + Riffe Ice Pick and 8 meters of 500# coated cable cost at least US$ 140. There is no room for error if I calculate the $$$ I will loose if the float ever fail........ I loose more in the long run.

I never have experience using a float but I have seen 450# dacron line of the 5" bungie broke from a fish pulling the shaft and I will not take any chance. I have previously mentioned that being a bubble blower I have the chance to push the rigging of the shooting line to the fullest. Any freediving spearo with a 17 liter float even when pulled at the fastest speed of a fish, will not introduce a loading of anymore than say 50 kg of drag on the float and line set up. The float will sink anyway if a drag is above 19kg in saltwater, the rest of the drag comes from the speed the fish pulls, a.k.a hydrodynamic drag.

As a bubble blower I do not have the luxury of beautiful brake effect of a freediver float. All I can hope for is the fish to tire when pulling me in full scuba gear and the spearhead not to break loose. In fact now I beefed-up my only weak link............. the 450# dacron line of the 5" bungie on my Riffe. I parallel install a 1000# Kevlar together with the 5" bungie. If the 5" bungie ever break ( it did once ), I have the 1000# Kevlar to take the load. There are only two options now I have as a bubble blower, loose the fish or loose the gun.

I really wish to have a float ready and useable for scuba hunting but my mobility been hampered a great deal by a float and a float line if the current exceed 1.5 knot and in some location, a float can NOT work for me because of the surface rock lay out.

Attached is my current beef-up 5" bungie set up :

The other way to do it is to replace the Dacron 450# line in the bungie and use the 1000# Kevlar instead, I did this for a friend. Mine is an emergency set up which I improvised on the field the moment a friend broke the 450# Dacron. Afer that I am too lazy to make anymore modification. Up to date, my friends or I have not broken any 450# Dacron line again but we learn from mistakes.

 

[ivan]

hi Iya

With the cost of all your gear that you mentioned you had better be careful if you spear a monster sized doggie. It will take your float to depths. I will tell you a story about Australia's most experienced Bluewater hunter Greg Pickering. Out in the Coral sea Greg was using a Steve alexander tuna gun with a 1 or 2 riffe inflatable floats he speared what was estimated to be a 80-100kg Dogtooth in 30metres the fish had both floats whistling into the depths before he made it half way back to the surface. He lost all of his gear and being our most experienced Blue water man he was surprised at the incredible power of the Dog tooth tuna. A couple of days later Ian puckeridge landed the current wr doggie at 83kg the orginal shot was with the pranger.

cheers

Ps this is not the only story, one of the Collins boys lost all their gear to a doggie using a inflatable float

 

[andrsn]

Iya,

Here's my 35L RA float. I believe it has about 70lbs of lift at the surface. And, it has the tire valve for inflation. It's pretty sweet but loses air over a couple of days if inflated to the max.

Later guys...

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi Ivan & Anderson,


I feel that one day I might loose my gun. I can't bear the load a Riffe float line is pulling me, the float itself is OK but the fat float line is no fun to drag at 1.5 knots current or more. I will use 100+50 feet ones. At one time a freediver friend tried to scuba hunt with me and he is so used to a float, he used my 50 feet float line + his 100 feet Riffe bungie and float. The current was almost 2 knots. He could not even swim to the location with all those drag on him, he drifted away and got lost instead. That is why my float system is such a waste of investment, cause I never get to use it.....yet. I have it just in case the yellowfin tuna start to feed this March, hopefully. The YF tuna will feed in about 1000-2000 feet of water. Average size is 30kg only. I have witnessed an ocassion where the feeding frenzy is so OBSCENE ( I was only fishing those days ), if I ever jump in the water, I might get my ribs broken by being bumped by them. If I ever shoot a YF tuna, this will be the time.

In the meantime my current solution to the roller coaster ride will be a reel since the water depth I hunt is about 160 feet deepest where the sand meet the deepest rock. In my tuna pinacle, if I get dragged out to seaward, the water drop to 300 feet and deeper some 200 meters from the rock.... I hope I will never get dragged to that area...

I think if I ever land a YF tuna even a 30kg, that 35 liter RA float might look good as a second float .......

 

[Griff]

Originally posted by fuzz
I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume by "negligible" you mean "non-existant" :hmm

thanks for the benefit, yip, engineering term, negligible means small enough so i dont have to worry about the calcs, or non-existant for practical purposes

Iya, does your gun float? its seems very risky for you because it the fish runs up, you risk being bent, or if the fish runs down, you get narked or even O2 poisioning. it would be good to have a system that doesnt mean that if you let go of your gun, you loose it. what about hammerhead's breakaway CO2 cartrige system?
it must be hellava hard to let got of the gun + trophy attached to the spear.
otherwise a breakaway reel so that you can keep the gun at least.

 

[Iyadiver]

Hi Griff,

That's the problem with scubahunting in deepwaters without a
float. I am already so slow and noisy with tanks, I just hate the extra load of the float line & float. Looks like a reel is the closest thing I can do, but I personaly never yet fight a big fish with a reel. It has always been a tug of war between me and the fish with the existing shooting line, that's why the 450# Dacron gave away.

I can stay down as log as my tank permits but I am more exposed to lung rupture, narcosis and bend compared to a swift freediver. The challenge for me is not only trying to get close to a wary fish with all my bubble noise, landing any pelagic above 10kg is the greater challenge. I am more exposed to fishes flesh tear off because me being drag around on scuba gear does burden the fish flesh to a greater degree than a 17 liter float, if the fish pulls fast. I once shot a mere 20 kg Trevaly near a wreck, grabbed it but failed and had the shooting cable running around my neck almost killing me. The shooting line and shaft got stuck at the wreck and it was trying to break free from a detachable JBL Tri Cut spear tip. With 4 tugs, I witness the 500# ss cable snapped in the middle, not the crimp. Damn a 20kg fish breaking a 200kg ss cable with just pure pulling strength still confused me till today. That is an incredible 1:10 power ratio. It was shot in the least fatal zone, I was using only 2 bands, so I can't aim the head area, my favourite.

Of all the fishes I shot un-stoned but quite in a fatal zone, I noticed the first 2-3 minutes are the worst energy pull from the fishes like Doggie and Giant Trevaly. The Spanish Mack is good only for the first 1 minute, my limited experience.

 

[Shadowkiller]

Originally posted by Iyadiver
, my limited experience.

I wish I had you "limited" experience..:hmm

Must be hard shooting all those doggies and mackeral...

 

[rigdvr]

as for the floats I can now vouch for the effectiveness of the 11 liter foam blown floats on wahoo...

 

[icarus pacific]

aww, you're killin' me Mike!


sven