flushing sinuses and pushing limits

[billieball]

TRUX,
I removed my post with the article attachment. I figured since I pay for access to these scholarly articles (and oh boy...do I ever PAY$$$), then I wasn't violating any copyright laws by sharing one. I wasn't using the authors' words as my own, and I wasn't charging others to read them. My undergrad degree is in English literature, with my grad degree in Criminal Justice. I am quite familiar with copyright laws, especially when regarding scholarly journal entries. However, since it seemed to make you a bit uncomfortable (and in turn, your discomfort caused me discomfort), I removed the link. Everyone, just rest assured that the article was indeed quite good. Perhaps when I am through with my thesis, I can paraphrase some of these articles for my freediving buddies...and we can all share the knowledge!
--Billie

 

[billieball]

If they charge a fee for accessing the document, it means they do not want to let it in the public domain.

One more thing...the fee is not to keep an article out of public domain. The fee's purpose is not to keep such scientific information in only the hands of a few elite. Rather, the contents of such studies often make it into not only the sheltered world of academia, but also to the general public. Anyway, just thought I'd clarify.

 

[trux]

Billie,

Well, I am not an expert in US law, but I am pretty sure that publishing of a document that is not in a public domain, violates some laws, regardless if you charge for it or no. Even if non-commercial publishing was allowed (which I am persuaded is not), the additional problem is that this website is not entirely non-commercial. Although the incomes probably do not trigger any big profit, DB does have paying subscribers, and it does get some income from advertising too. It is not me who was uncomfortable with having the ripped document published here. I just wanted to warn you that its appearance can cause legal troubles to you and to the owner of DeeperBlue (Stephan Whelan).

If you are persuaded you do not violate any laws, you can put the document on your own website, put it on a peer-to-peer sharing network, or send to people by email, but I think it is wiser not putting others under the risk of legal persecution by putting copyrighted pay-for material on their websites.

Thank you (for Stephan Whelan and for the authors of the article) for removing the document. I am sure that it will once land in the public domain anyway, but as long as it can trigger some income to the authors, I think it is unfair interfering with their interests. And I do personally know of at least two DB members who already purchased the article, after seeing it referred in this thread. Likely there were many more who bough it without telling me. If you were quicker than them and posted the document earlier, it is quite possibly that some of them would not bother with the purchase - hence you would (and possibly did anyway) cut the income of the authors.

 

[billieball]

but as long as it can trigger some income to the authors, I think it is unfair interfering with their interests. .

Once again, I do not think you understand the purpose of scholarly journals. The authors of articles contained in them DO NOT get paid. As a grad student, I can speak for countless other PhD candidates...the whole point of getting published in a scholarly journal is for the exposure. So, I am not hampering the obtaining of funds to these authors.
Anyway, I do think it a moot point, as I diligently removed my link...at your behest. And veiled attempts at intimidation by dropping the name of the owner of Deeper Blue simply don't fly well by me. I have utmost respect for Whelan, and obviously for Deeper Blue. Believe me...I wouldn't want to jeopardize anyone's website with superfluous legalities (or illegalities, as you so gallantly point out). Thanks again for the heads-up, I do appreciate your concerns. Way to go in looking out for your comrades here at Deeper Blue by attempting to make a single, lowly freediver feel like an imbecile. Way to go...

 

[BennyB]

Ok, before this escalates into name calling and dummy spitting please keep the bickering to a minimum. Besides annoying each other it's detracting from the original subject.

Billie - thank you for removing the document. Copyright law is different around the world and can be hard to understand, however to keep it simple I refer you to the DeeperBlue Forum rules:

POSTING CONTENT FROM OTHER PEOPLE OR WEBSITES
Copying any content from another person's work, or another website, is not allowed without express permission from the creater/owner of the original work. Even if you attribute the article correctly it is still copyright infringement. Do not reproduce substancial parts of articles or news items from other sites in the forums. If you don't have permission to copy something then always err on the side of caution and simply post a link to the material at its original location, or quote a short excerpt only, indicating where the quote came from. DeeperBlue.net Ltd shall not be held responsible for member-posted information that violates copyright.

The forum rules can be found here: DeeperBlue.net Forums - FAQ: DeeperBlue.net Forum FAQ

Cheers,
Ben

 

[Erik]

I don't think any harm's meant from anyone about this. Billie thanks for trying to share info, hopefully we can see some of your work at some point?
Cheers,
Erik

 

[billieball]

Ben,
Thanks. I do tend to get a bit fired up at times when it involves what I feel to be a dig at my intelligence/knowledge. I appreciate the advice to cool down.

Erik,
Most of my graduate studies focus on underwater crime scene investigation, and not freediving. However, I did do an academic presentation on freediving training & its applicability to UCSI training. You know, stress maintenance, etc...? I'd be happy to share one day!

Everyone,
Have fun, dive safe, take care!
--Billie

 

[trux]

Billie, I apologize if I offended you, but I really did not dig at your intelligence at all. My note was not about intelligence, but about ethics, and as I wrote in my original post, I was sure you did it with good intentions and appreciated it. I just though that the publisher, the authors, and the owner of DB may not appreciate it in the same way as our fellow freedivers (BTW, I did not understand why you were upset by my mentioning Stephan's name - his name is well known here, and I do not think that using it is intimidating).

 

[billieball]

Whatever, Trux. It's over and done. I'll continue to enjoy my tedious perusals of scholarly articles. Take care, and tell Mr. Whelan I said "hello."

 

[Marwan]

Billie
underwater crime scene investigation? that sounds pretty cool, would freediving accidents be a possible venue for their work for example? i cant think of any examples, but maybe Audrey Mestre (not to open that subject, but just the example off the top of my head)

 

[billieball]

What we most often investigate are searches for evidence (weapons, bodies, etc...) tossed into water to avoid detection during an investigation. Sometimes, we are called in to do searches for supposed drown/accident victims...when things just don't add up. Cold cases, environmental investigations, and yes...dive accidents. UCSI combines the scientific method behind land-based forensic investigations with the unique requirements one encounters in the alien environment of "underwater." The majority of water-related crimes do not originate in the water, but on land. Therefore, it is important to not only understand how different things react when submerged...but also be aware of currents, tides, weather conditions, and all other marine-environmental issues. Whether as mundane as using side scan sonar to map the ocean floor (I only say "mundane" because it can be quite boring watching a computer monitor for hours on end whilst dragging a towfish), or as exciting as clawing through vegetation at the bottom of a swamp...UCSI is definitely a newly-emerging and exciting field. I don't necessarily think this the forum for this particular discussion...but I'm glad you asked. We've not yet been called in to investigate a freediving accident (those types of accidents--when body recovery is not the issue--are usually investigated based on water conditions and witness statements, and of course autopsy).

 

[Marwan]

ok i get it, the way i see it the producers of shows like CSI are wasting their time, you guys are way cooler
cheers

 

[billieball]

LOL! I don't know about cooler, but definitely more realistic!

 

[Erik]

LOL! I don't know about cooler, but definitely more realistic!

What? You mean forensic cops don't drive around in Hummers, get DNA tests done in 30 minutes, and kick the door down before the Tactical Team shows up?
rofl

 

[Marwan]

NOOOOO dont tell me, and they dont have the snazzy office with the fully made up babes running around and no smart face expressions by dave caruso!!!...im shattered here

 

[billieball]

No, and we women also don't run around in stilettos with cute little lab kits, speaking in catty witticisms (all the while with perfectly coiffed hair). The attached photo is from an investigation in a boggy runoff from Lake Seminole...and this is more how "we roll." Not real sexy, huh?
Sorry this thread has become a bit off-topic. I hope we don't get in trouble with the thread police! :naughty

 

[sanso]

Well, that is kinda sexy. Maybe it isn't for the intended audience of CSI, but You're among Your people here. We like that kind of stuff. :chatup

 

[Kars]

It's a cool picture!
Nice depth, coulours, posture, movement and intresting look of the eyes

Keep'm comming!

Kars

 

[apneaboy]

I hope we don't get in trouble with the thread police!

Oooh wait 'til i tell STEPHAN WHELAN about this!!

Stephan won't be happy, I just need to work out what the thread was about again and thats it i'm grassing you lot up to Stephan!!

At least everyone is getting along now, i think it was Benny B's fault all along.

p.s any ideas about how to flush this green stuff out of my sinuses i have at the moment, i want to go diving again :-( Cursed Man Flu from France no less.

The girls wouldn't understand how serious it actually is!!

 

[unobreath]

No, and we women also don't run around in stilettos with cute little lab kits, speaking in catty witticisms (all the while with perfectly coiffed hair). The attached photo is from an investigation in a boggy runoff from Lake Seminole...and this is more how "we roll." Not real sexy, huh?
Sorry this thread has become a bit off-topic. I hope we don't get in trouble with the thread police! :naughty

Nothing sucks more than doing a body job in the swamp. Vis is awesome at 3 feet. But you put a whole new out look on it for me. to bad all the people I dive/spearfish with are male.

I'm a navy diver/avid spearo/beach bum. Body jobs are well a part of the job and well its not like we do then often but every once in awhile when a plane falls out of the sky or a bridge collapses they give us a call and they are not fun. I do have a question for you though. Do u always wear an aga mask? Not to add to the already difficult job that you have but contamination is a big concern for us when dealing with dead bodies (whatever the case maybe) in the warm water of florida/georgia (lake seminole?). just curious? No need to worry but it is something to consider.

And you look surprisingly young to be a in the market for a PhD.