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Freediver died in Davos attempting record under ice
- Thread starter Duracell
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
The most detailed information was in the interview with Peter. The safety put in place seemed not to be too bad - a guiding line and lanyards, multiple escape holes, scuba and freediving safeties. From what I understood, the victim was not very confident with himself about doing it to the 50m hole, and was advised to wait for escort. It was not written whether he ought to be escorted by a scuba diver or by another freediver. However, either he did not understand that (because of the hood), or decided to go anyway. Allegedly, a freediver from the 50m hole went to meet him at 20s after the immersion. When he did not see him, he came back (at 40s after the top) and a scuba diver went to search him. It is not clear whether the scuba diver was waiting on the surface, or whether he was on the way back from the last hole (125m?) after escorting Peter. I believe there were more scuba divers, so he was probably not too far. They found the victim easily (he was attached on the lanyard) and brought him to the surface at 2:45 after the top, and started the CPR.
Now, l can only speculate, since I know just the few details published in the interview, and in some other reports, but from the few details we know, it looks like the guy got into troubles very early after the immersion - otherwise the freediver who went to meet him would have to see him. From the times published, I'd tell that he had to search him at least some 10-20m back from the 50m hole. I do not know what visibility was there, but it could have been some additional meters, so it looks like the guy blacked out before 25m (my speculation only, not a fact!).
What is also strange, is that he died despite been rescued very quickly. Being 2:45 under water, and especially in cold water, does not sound too bad. I also understood he was stabilized during the CPR. I do not know whether they used oxygen immediately, but wonder whether he inhaled a lot of water and whether secondary drowning could have been the death cause, or whether his health complications were not the real root of the tragical end. I definitely hope we will hear the results of the investigation later.
It is also a question why he blacked out so early. Either he was under big stress and fear and hyperventilated more than usually. Together with the harder conditions (altitude, cold, thick wetsuit, weights, physical effort beforehand,...) he might indeed have an early BO shortly or just after the immersion. Another possibility again is that he had a health problem. Or perhaps something went wrong during the CPR and/or transport. Perhaps improper methods were used, but that's a huge and rather improbable speculation. Though, it happens too, so it can't be excluded.
The safety and the rescue were much better that it was the case a year ago, at the accident in France. In that case, they only found a freediver is missing practically at the departure. And since he had no lanyard, it took about a week of intensive search by police divers before they've found the body.
So if you plan organizing an event under ice, you have to count even with cases like this one, where the freediver due to the harsh conditions and heavy stress, or due to health complications, can black out just after the immersion or any time under the ice. On my mind lanyards are the absolute must, and the diver needs to be monitored from the moment of immersion to the surfacing - either by a scuba diver, or by a more experienced freediver, or from the surface (if the ice permits it). Having a reliable and freezing-proof and tested CPR incl. oxygen on the surface is certainly very important too. Equally important should be briefing, and a rigorous buddy system.
Now, l can only speculate, since I know just the few details published in the interview, and in some other reports, but from the few details we know, it looks like the guy got into troubles very early after the immersion - otherwise the freediver who went to meet him would have to see him. From the times published, I'd tell that he had to search him at least some 10-20m back from the 50m hole. I do not know what visibility was there, but it could have been some additional meters, so it looks like the guy blacked out before 25m (my speculation only, not a fact!).
What is also strange, is that he died despite been rescued very quickly. Being 2:45 under water, and especially in cold water, does not sound too bad. I also understood he was stabilized during the CPR. I do not know whether they used oxygen immediately, but wonder whether he inhaled a lot of water and whether secondary drowning could have been the death cause, or whether his health complications were not the real root of the tragical end. I definitely hope we will hear the results of the investigation later.
It is also a question why he blacked out so early. Either he was under big stress and fear and hyperventilated more than usually. Together with the harder conditions (altitude, cold, thick wetsuit, weights, physical effort beforehand,...) he might indeed have an early BO shortly or just after the immersion. Another possibility again is that he had a health problem. Or perhaps something went wrong during the CPR and/or transport. Perhaps improper methods were used, but that's a huge and rather improbable speculation. Though, it happens too, so it can't be excluded.
The safety and the rescue were much better that it was the case a year ago, at the accident in France. In that case, they only found a freediver is missing practically at the departure. And since he had no lanyard, it took about a week of intensive search by police divers before they've found the body.
So if you plan organizing an event under ice, you have to count even with cases like this one, where the freediver due to the harsh conditions and heavy stress, or due to health complications, can black out just after the immersion or any time under the ice. On my mind lanyards are the absolute must, and the diver needs to be monitored from the moment of immersion to the surfacing - either by a scuba diver, or by a more experienced freediver, or from the surface (if the ice permits it). Having a reliable and freezing-proof and tested CPR incl. oxygen on the surface is certainly very important too. Equally important should be briefing, and a rigorous buddy system.
Hi all
The interview with Peter isn't wrong but it doesn't tell the story in enough detail to draw conclusions about the way the accident had occurred. So the speculations of trux about the passing of the incident are therefore mostly incorrect (no offense!). Of course you may say now that it should be told how it really happened. But that is the task of the investigators, not mine (and I wasn't there eitherway). It doesn't make sense to speculate any further on the basis what's publicly known.
OK, even I don't like that this circus-thing of freediving distance under ice goes on, I will let you know some things to keep an eye on (apart from what trux said and all the things you obviously should do). What I tell now is not necessarily related to things that went wrong in this accident.
* Communication: Everybody involved has to know the installation, the detailed course of action, the possible emergency cases, his particular task in such an event. There have to be predefined plans for every imaginable situation which might occur.
* Test and warm up Dives: Same safety procedure apply for all dives.
* Dives over parts of the distance: They have to be conducted from emergency holes into the direction of the end of the line not the other way round. This makes it impossible to miss the targeted hole.
* Safety holes: Its very hard to even see them under ice. And you're looking down. Its even very hard to see something on your sides when you're on a concentrated swim. Mark the line at the position of the holes and hang down something clearly visible into the holes, such as a bright thick and long pole which can easily be seen when looking sideways under the ice. The holes are not visible if you're not under them (and then they're at your back)!
* Nobody goes down unplaned. For every dive it's got to be clear what distance it will be and how long it will take. The "supervisor" gives the OK and any other commands and coordinations. Also, he stops the time.
These are just a few of many other points.
For the end, a personal note: Freediving under ice ads just an unnecessary risk to (distance) freediving. I think the only reason so many people do it is because the guinness WR is at 100m+ which is well in reach for many. Everybody should ask himself if it's worth to add this risk to an otherwise unspectacular distance (which could be done with the same amount of "bravo" earned in a pool) just for this lousy guinness WR. This has been and still is my very humble opinion, not meant to kick any body's ass.
dive safe and have fun! Michi
The interview with Peter isn't wrong but it doesn't tell the story in enough detail to draw conclusions about the way the accident had occurred. So the speculations of trux about the passing of the incident are therefore mostly incorrect (no offense!). Of course you may say now that it should be told how it really happened. But that is the task of the investigators, not mine (and I wasn't there eitherway). It doesn't make sense to speculate any further on the basis what's publicly known.
OK, even I don't like that this circus-thing of freediving distance under ice goes on, I will let you know some things to keep an eye on (apart from what trux said and all the things you obviously should do). What I tell now is not necessarily related to things that went wrong in this accident.
* Communication: Everybody involved has to know the installation, the detailed course of action, the possible emergency cases, his particular task in such an event. There have to be predefined plans for every imaginable situation which might occur.
* Test and warm up Dives: Same safety procedure apply for all dives.
* Dives over parts of the distance: They have to be conducted from emergency holes into the direction of the end of the line not the other way round. This makes it impossible to miss the targeted hole.
* Safety holes: Its very hard to even see them under ice. And you're looking down. Its even very hard to see something on your sides when you're on a concentrated swim. Mark the line at the position of the holes and hang down something clearly visible into the holes, such as a bright thick and long pole which can easily be seen when looking sideways under the ice. The holes are not visible if you're not under them (and then they're at your back)!
* Nobody goes down unplaned. For every dive it's got to be clear what distance it will be and how long it will take. The "supervisor" gives the OK and any other commands and coordinations. Also, he stops the time.
These are just a few of many other points.
For the end, a personal note: Freediving under ice ads just an unnecessary risk to (distance) freediving. I think the only reason so many people do it is because the guinness WR is at 100m+ which is well in reach for many. Everybody should ask himself if it's worth to add this risk to an otherwise unspectacular distance (which could be done with the same amount of "bravo" earned in a pool) just for this lousy guinness WR. This has been and still is my very humble opinion, not meant to kick any body's ass.
dive safe and have fun! Michi
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Great comments, Michi! And sorry if my speculations were completely wrong, but I would be still interested in wich part. The basic speculation was that the victim blacked out very early in the dive and rather close to the entry hole. Is this speculation wrong too? The other speculation was that some health issues migh have been involved too - it is clear that this can be only confirmed or denied by the investigation and that we'll probably not know it any soon.
Hi Trux
Yes, this is wrong.
As you said, this is part of the medical investigation.
Michi
Yes, this is wrong.
As you said, this is part of the medical investigation.
Michi
This is true if the wetsuit is allowed. However if you consider the event where the diver must dive without any wetsuit or fins, I would say that this event is NOT IN RANGE for anyone except the most proficient. And so far there were only three records, 50m (Wim Hof), 57m (Wim Hof), and 76m (Stig).
