Wednesday, June 19, 2019
  • Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 40,000+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 496,000+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,300+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

GeckoSub Mirage Evo - And Adventures in 3D Printing Speargun Parts

OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
A photo would be good as is, I am sure the set backs are only minor. A quick fix may be double "O": rings as Mares tried that themselves, not necessarily the same size, one stacked behind the other.
You mentioned double o-rings on the power regulator rod in the handle. Originally, I think it's supposed to be one o-ring and one backing ring (a Parker 8-006) but, at least, one of my Mirages came with just two regular o-rings. Those backing rings are not easy to get your hands on so maybe someone servicing the gun just used two o-rings instead.
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
You mentioned double o-rings on the power regulator rod in the handle. Originally, I think it's supposed to be one o-ring and one backing ring (a Parker 8-006) but, at least, one of my Mirages came with just two regular o-rings. Those backing rings are not easy to get your hands on so maybe someone servicing the gun just used two o-rings instead.
No, that gun was straight from the factory and had never been opened. The workers either used their initiative or made mistakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Diving Gecko
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
No, that gun was straight from the factory and had never been opened. The workers either used their initiative or made mistakes.
Oh, I meant that my gun would likely have been serviced as it was old and used when I got it. Didn't know your new one came like that. That's interesting - could very well be assembly "error" or perhaps at some point, Mares made the move to or from backing rings to regular rings? It would explain why one of mine came like that, too.
I don't have the time to go through all the different versions of the manual now (you know why, haha) but maybe there's a clue in there - at least in one of them there should be a reference to the backing ring (8-006). A few years ago, I must have seen that, googled it, checked the dimensions and made the connection (there's a chance I am mixing things up, but I think it was in relation to the Mirage....)
 
Last edited:

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Oh, I meant that my gun would likely have been serviced as it was old and used when I got it. Didn't know your new one came like that. That's interesting - could very well assembly "error" perhaps at some point, Mares made the move to or from backing rings to regular rings. It would explain why one of mine came like that, too.
I don't have the time to go through all the different versions of the manual now (you know why, haha) but maybe there's a clue in there.
As I said some time ago the "Mirage" assembly line was probably somewhat chaotic and the workers had a lot more to do in assembling the gun. A Mares distributor said that they dreaded seeing a "Mirage" brought in for service, although he thought that they would all be returned for repair eventually if they had not been thrown out beforehand. This probably explains the later versions not being sold here, only the 80 cm guns as they were measured back then, later on as an 84 cm, but never sold as that here.
 
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
3rd Assembly - Almost In The Clear
Yesterday, at the 2nd assembly test, something gave in the bulkhead when I took the gun up to 33 bar (it worked great at 20 bar).
So, when I took it apart today I was really worried but nothing seemed broken. No structural damage, no stripped plastic screws, no unseated seals. I didn't really bother to take pics because nothing would have shown anyways - and I am too busy trying to fix this gun.

Troubleshooting a leaking bulkhead is by far the worst thing to have to deal with in a Mirage as there are so many potential leak paths and no way to see where the leak is.
I did change two things. I adjusted the position where the power regulator plug sits in the bulkhead at the low power position and I made a new peg for the pumping barrel. Both seemed kinda ok, but the latter was a little off when it came to the compression of the o-rings that I am aiming for. Also, it actually had a little room to move forward which could lead to a leak so I adjusted that and I also managed to fit in two o-rings on the rear part of the peg.

Then I assembled the gun again for the third test and besides a small and slowly increasing leak in the bulkhead, it worked.
I started at 26 bar and did three rounds of waiting and reloading. And finally, I took the gun up to 33 bar which is where things went bad yesterday but it worked today.

This time I used a pressure gauge and the leak in the bulkhead is not too bad though it is not ideal. It's about 0.5-1 bar/min so if it stays like this, I have plenty of time for a full reloading sequence but I can't take a low power shot before getting in the boat for a break and then expect to be able to load the gun again at low power when I drop back in. But since I really have no idea about where the leak is, I am deciding to let it rest for now. In theory, it could even be through the plastic material itself this time. If I am lucky, it's just that the gun is a bit under lubricated since I didn't add oil this time.

Also, at no point in almost ten loading cycles since I made the new power regulator plug has the o-ring been blown off, so I solved that problem and I am fairly confident that the issue was the small shoulder on the original plug. It's a nice feeling identifying a problem and solving it in one try for a change:).

I'll take the chance and let it be for now and move on to working on some modifications to the handle.

I promise I will shoot pics of the whole gun and all it's individual parts later on. Probably at my friend's place in Thailand in a few weeks. I am beginning to think I will be working on customizing the handle there, too as I am running out of time to do it here. I will try to get everything that needs machining done here before I leave, though.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nico66

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Ideally the pressure itself should seal the "O” ring as that is how they are intended to work. The pressure gets in around the ring on one side and presses it up to seal on the leak path on the other side. The shore hardness is to stop the rubber ring extruding though any clearance which the rubber is intended to seal off. As long as the "O" ring cross-section cannot thin out sufficiently to pass through the gap then you have an effective seal.
 
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
Handle Modification
I mentioned that I wanted to do a small mod to the handle (besides making a custom grip).
This one is about improving the airflow through the bulkhead during the shot. The idea is to maximize how far back from the bore the power regulator plug can be pulled.
As it is from stock there's about a 4mm gap between the plug and the white bushing (the plug is my new DIY one but the gap is the same with the Mares plug) which also means the plug sits 4mm closer to the front wall of the bulkhead and bore than it has to:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_383_800PIX.jpg

(BTW, I think there used to be a spring in that 4mm spot but I tossed that early on. I think the spring is counter productive as it will force the plug closer to the bulkhead).

The idea is simple - extend the groove in the handle for the power regulator knob. Extend it 4mm longer to be exact as that is the size of the gap.
The cheerfully cheap and chatter'ish "mill" did the job fine - as long as the parts are plastic and you hold them down tight, this will get the job done:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_380_800PIX.jpg

GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_381_800PIX.jpg


And some before and after images:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_385B_1200PIX.jpg


GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_383B_1200PIX.jpg


Final pic of the three different plugs. To the left is the original Mares plug, in the middle my proof of concept tester and to the right the final, shorter one. (Remember, I had to make my own to stop the o-ring from being blown off the plug):
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_382_800PIX.jpg


I haven't had time to deal with the trigger friction (or design flaw) issue, yet.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: popgun pete
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
Nose Cone Repair
Despite countless hours of printing numerous parts, I actually only ever finished two fully working nose cones. Making jigs, arbors, etc, for work holding, indicating the parts and turning them on the lathe plus the epoxy sealing procedure takes a lot longer than you would think.
But frustratingly, the nose cone I liked the most broke when I assembled the gun the first time. The thin wall under the bottom of the pumping barrel bore cracked:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_387_800PIX.jpg


For the second and third assembly, I used the only other nose cone which I have done all the secondary machining and resin impregnation on and that nose cone works fine. But I would like to have a backup with me on the trip, so figured I would have a go at repairing the broken one. I felt repairing it would possibly take less time than making a new one from scratch - plus the new one might just crack in the same place again.

So, the repair had to be stronger than the original plastic and since I had the epoxy out already, I wanted to do the repair in carbon fiber.
First, I cut off the affected area - the crack shows up better here:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_388_800PIX.jpg

I ended up turning it down a lot more and took the cut all the way up to the o-ring groove at the front (turning down the most rear of the two grooves).

Time to lay up the CF, but it was messy so no pics. I didn't bother to vac bag the part, I just used electrician's tape for compression. A trick I used was to carefully wet out a piece of CF on some mylar film I have which releases fairly easy and then when the resin has set a little, cut a suitable strip and add it to the part. This way, the wet out is much easier to control and the CF (now slightly tacky) stays in place much better for when you start rolling the stretched tape on. It's kind of a poor man's prepreg and I actually put the rest of the wet CF in the freezer, should be good for a day or two;-). After taping up the part, I chucked it in my heated 3D printer enclosure and "baked" it at 45C for half a day. (I didn't want to go too high on account of the plastic but the elevated temps should help the resin flow out and bond properly).

Here's a pic after curing when I was taking the tape off (I think the tape did a pretty nice job):
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_389_800PIX.jpg


Then I put the nose cone back on the lathe to turn the CF down to the proper diameter:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_390_800PIX.jpg


A few more passes cleaned it up nicely. It actually machined a whole lot better than I expected but the dust is horrible and I was happy I had a respirator on:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_393_800PIX.jpg


I had a Delrin plug in the pumping barrel bore when I laid the fiber down, too but this one has o-rings on it as I was about to do a leak test.

I was busy padding myself on the back over how well this came out with very few pin holes and what seems a reasonably good ratio of fiber (not too wet) when I remembered my "promise" to run double o-rings as often as I can so back on the lathe to cut a new rear groove:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_394_800PIX.jpg


And finally it was time for a dunk test in the kitchen sink:
GECKOSUB_EVO_MIRAGE_395_800PIX.jpg


No bubbles at 30 bar and the repaired wall of the bore seems plenty strong so I think I managed to fix this one;-)
 
Last edited:

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Handle Modification
I mentioned that I wanted to do a small mod to the handle (besides making a custom grip).
This one is about improving the airflow through the bulkhead during the shot. The idea is to maximize how far back from the bore the power regulator plug can be pulled.
As it is from stock there's about a 4mm gap between the plug and the white bushing (the plug is my new DIY one but the gap is the same with the Mares plug) which also means the plug sits 4mm closer to the front wall of the bulkhead and bore than it has to:
View attachment 53370
(BTW, I think there used to be a spring in that 4mm spot but I tossed that early on. I think the spring is counter productive as it will force the plug closer to the bulkhead).

The idea is simple - extend the groove in the handle for the power regulator knob. Extend it 4mm longer to be exact as that is the size of the gap.
The cheerfully cheap and chatter'ish "mill" did the job fine - as long as the parts are plastic and you hold them down tight, this will get the job done:
View attachment 53371
View attachment 53372

And some before and after images:View attachment 53374

View attachment 53373

Final pic of the three different plugs. To the left is the original Mares plug, in the middle my proof of concept tester and to the right the final, shorter one. (Remember, I had to make my own to stop the o-ring from being blown off the plug):
View attachment 53381

I haven't had time to deal with the trigger friction (or design flaw) issue, yet.
Lengthening the travel of the selector gate is something Mares should have done long ago. As I mentioned some time back the “Mirage” had a long tunnel in the grip that would have allowed this, but the selector gate travel was too short. The only way around this situation would be to have some mechanism where the piston plug was not permanently fixed to the regulator shaft and could be pushed further in by some manipulation of the cursor knob. At a certain position the shaft and piston would be locked and at another released on the shaft. A “D” shaped hole could allow a stepped movement, the “D” on the piston plug and the regulator rod matching in alignment and the rod deeper in the piston plug, or the two D shapes abutting against each other making everything longer, however locking them together is a problem I have yet to work out. The simplest solution is to lengthen the gate as you have done and given the “meat” available in the "Cyrano Evo" handle makes that the best option.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Diving Gecko

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Nose Cone Repair
Despite countless hours of printing I actually only finished two fully working nose cones (the work holding and turning on the lathe plus the epoxy sealing takes a lot longer than you would think on these parts) and then the one I liked the most broke right when I assembled the gun the first time. The thin wall under the bottom of the pumping barrel bore cracked:
View attachment 53375

For the second and third assembly, I used the only other nose cone which I have done all the secondary machining and resin impregnation on and that nose cone works fine. But I would like to have a backup with me on the trip, so figured I would have a go at repairing the broken one. I felt repairing it would possibly take less time than making a new one from scratch - plus the new one might just crack in the same place again.

So, the repair had to be stronger than the original plastic and since I had the epoxy out already, I wanted to do the repair in carbon fiber.
First, I cut off the affected area - the crack shows up better here:
View attachment 53376
I ended up turning it down a lot more and took the cut all the way up to the o-ring groove at the front (turning down the most rear of the two grooves).

Time to lay up the CF, but it was messy so no pics. I didn't bother to vac bag the part, I just used electrician's tape for compression. A trick I used was to carefully wet out a piece of CF on some mylar film I have which releases fairly easy and then when the resin has set a little, cut a suitable strip and add it to the part. This way, the wet out is much easier to control and the CF (now slightly tacky) stays in place much better for when you start rolling the stretched tape on. It's kind of a poor man's prepreg and I actually put the rest of the wet CF in the freezer, should be good for a day or two;-). After taping up the part, I chucked it in my heated 3D printer enclosure and "baked" it at 45C for half a day. (I didn't want to go too high on account of the plastic but the elevated temps should help the resin flow out and bond properly).

Here's a pic after curing when I was taking the tape off (I think the tape did a pretty nice job):
View attachment 53382

Then I put the nose cone back on the lathe to turn the CF down to the proper diameter:
View attachment 53377

A few more passes cleaned it up nicely. It actually machined a whole lot better than I expected but the dust is horrible and I was happy I had a respirator on:
View attachment 53378

I had a Delrin plug in the pumping barrel bore when I laid the fiber down, too but this one has o-rings on it as I was about to do a leak test.

I was busy padding myself on the back over how well this came out with very few pin holes and what seems a reasonably good ratio of fiber (not too wet) when I remembered my "promise" to run double o-rings as often as I can so back on the lathe to cut a new rear groove:
View attachment 53379

And finally it was time for a dunk test in the kitchen sink:
View attachment 53380

No bubbles at 30 bar and the repaired wall of the bore seems plenty strong so I think I managed to fix this one;-)
These setbacks may try your patience, but they are valuable lessons in overcoming problems in a secondary pumping barrel pneumatic gun where everything is being so tightly squeezed together in a very limited space. One way to provide more room on a new generation gun would be to increases the tank bore to say 42 mm with a 44 mm tank OD, or use slimmer wall thickness barrels in stainless steel to increase the gaps between them and thus allow more plastic thickness in the nose cone bulkhead webs that separate the barrels.

Seeing as stainless steel barrels can be reduced to 1 mm (or even 0.5 mm!!) wall thickness in strategic places (e.g. the "Taimen" inner barrel) this provides a lot more space to play around with inside the gun. The downside is the inner barrel has to be turned down using an accurate and rigid machine so you don't get breakthrough on the barrels by failing to rotate the work on the same axis to that of the bore, especially when the job is turned around in lathe to machine the other end which formerly had been gripped by the chuck jaws.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Diving Gecko

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Why Mares put a return spring on the power regulator shaft is because it is a form of pressure indicator. If a gun has leaked out enough air then the cursor knob moves forwards in the gate being driven by the power of the spring, but if the gun is still under pressure then this pressure overwhelms the spring and pushes the cursor knob right back in the gate. Another reason for a spring is it provides some assistance to you pushing the cursor or selector knob forwards, however this is more of an issue in the "Titan" series where everything is reversed.

As for metal triggers, Mares seem to use them whenever they want to freshen up a design, or make some distinguishing feature for a model that costs more! For example at one time the "big banger" Super "Sten" guns had a metal trigger, unlike the plastic trigger on the other "Sten" models. Personally I prefer plastic triggers such as the one used on the Scubapro "Magnum" and the Salvimar "Vintair" which looks slimmer, but is reinforced at the rear edge by webbing and struts.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Diving Gecko
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
Why Mares put a return spring on the power regulator shaft is because it is a form of pressure indicator. If a gun has leaked out enough air then the cursor knob moves forwards in the gate being driven by the power of the spring, but if the gun is still under pressure then this pressure overwhelms the spring and pushes the cursor knob right back in the gate. Another reason for a spring is it provides some assistance to you pushing the cursor or selector knob forwards, however this is more of an issue in the "Titan" series where everything is reversed.

As for metal triggers, Mares seem to use them whenever they want to freshen up a design, or make some distinguishing feature for a model that costs more! For example at one time the "big banger" Super "Sten" guns had a metal trigger, unlike the plastic trigger on the other "Sten" models. Personally I prefer plastic triggers such as the one used on the Scubapro "Magnum" and the Salvimar "Vintair" which looks slimmer, but is reinforced at the rear edge by webbing and struts.
Good thoughts on the spring. I thought it was just to dampen the shock when the plug is pushed backwards after opening from low power to high power (and a little bit of forward assistance).

As for the metal facelift, I thought it would be cool. I was mistakenly thinking that SS would be great but there's definitely something to be said for low friction nylon/plastic parts as long as they are strong enough.
I know this is early days and perhaps I am too quick to pass judgment, but from the initial feel the Predathor trigger and line release is a whole lot smoother. Actually, I would go as far as to say that Salvi got that part right out of the box but Mares didn't.
I have heard of a few bandgun triggers where any real tension on the shooting line messes severely with the trigger pull but really didn't expect any issues from Mares on this one...:-(

Didn't you order one of the new 13mm Evos with the metal trigger, too? If you did, you can just put a little tension on the line release with a finger while pulling the trigger - the increase in force needed is substantial and easily felt.
As mentioned, I measured it in the dry as an increase from 700g to 2.5kg with medium tension on a dummy rigged shooting line...:-(
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Yes, I bought a Cyrano 1.3 (Mares dropped the “Evo” from the name) and my first impression was this whole gun line should have been called the “Devo” as it in my view is an ugly thing with an awful handle that ties it in with their band gun line. The obvious question is why do that as their band guns are nothing to write home about, but that is just my opinion. Anyway my first check was the synchronisation of the line release with the trigger, but unless they changed it I don’t like that rounded lip on the piston’s mushroom tail as at the wrong moment it is just as likely to let go as hold. The sensitivity screw on the trigger sure does not need being wound in or problems! I have a very strong trigger finger, or should I say fingers as I can shoot with either hand, so trigger resistance unless it is very hard means nothing to me having used pneumatic guns with 3 mm diameter trigger transmission pins from when I started using a “Sten”, the original model which you have seen in my gun photos.

I still use my Scubapro “Magnum” as I am used to it, I only bought the Cyrano 1.3 thinking of your conversion project and it was on special. After seeing my associate’s gun I think maybe I should have bought a Quasimodo from Cressi-Sub as it looks better than the Cyrano and has a more appropriate shape lower handle.

Mares should just make a finger grip over handle for the current “Sten” rather than change the gun to a side line release as it isn’t really worth the hassle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Diving Gecko

Vlanik

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2009
108
3
58
Sothi
[QUOTE = "popgun pete, post: 982931, member: 18674"] Эти неудачи могут испытать ваше терпение, но они являются ценными уроками в преодолении проблем в пневматическом пистолете вторичной накачки, где все так плотно сжимается в очень ограниченном количестве. пространство. Один из способов обеспечить больше места для пистолета нового поколения - увеличить отверстие в резервуаре, скажем, до 42 мм при наружном диаметре резервуара 44 мм, или использовать более тонкие стволы из нержавеющей стали с толщиной стенки, чтобы увеличить зазоры между ними и тем самым увеличить толщину пластика. в перегородках перегородок носа, разделяющих бочки.

Учитывая, что стволы из нержавеющей стали могут быть уменьшены до 1 мм (или даже до 0,5 мм !!) толщины стенки в стратегически важных местах (например, во внутреннем стволе "Таймень"), это обеспечивает гораздо больше пространства для игры внутри пистолета. Недостатком является то, что внутренний ствол должен быть повернут вниз с помощью точной и жесткой машины, чтобы вы не получили прорыв на бочках, не повернув работу на той же оси, что и ствол, особенно, когда работа разворачивается вокруг в токарном станке для обработки другого конца, который раньше был зажат кулачками патрона. [/ QUOTE]
Не стоит делать таких предложений, не просчитав конструкцию на прочность...
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
[QUOTE = "popgun pete, post: 982931, member: 18674"] Эти неудачи могут испытать ваше терпение, но они являются ценными уроками в преодолении проблем в пневматическом пистолете вторичной накачки, где все так плотно сжимается в очень ограниченном количестве. пространство. Один из способов обеспечить больше места для пистолета нового поколения - увеличить отверстие в резервуаре, скажем, до 42 мм при наружном диаметре резервуара 44 мм, или использовать более тонкие стволы из нержавеющей стали с толщиной стенки, чтобы увеличить зазоры между ними и тем самым увеличить толщину пластика. в перегородках перегородок носа, разделяющих бочки.

Учитывая, что стволы из нержавеющей стали могут быть уменьшены до 1 мм (или даже до 0,5 мм !!) толщины стенки в стратегически важных местах (например, во внутреннем стволе "Таймень"), это обеспечивает гораздо больше пространства для игры внутри пистолета. Недостатком является то, что внутренний ствол должен быть повернут вниз с помощью точной и жесткой машины, чтобы вы не получили прорыв на бочках, не повернув работу на той же оси, что и ствол, особенно, когда работа разворачивается вокруг в токарном станке для обработки другого конца, который раньше был зажат кулачками патрона. [/ QUOTE]
Не стоит делать таких предложений, не просчитав конструкцию на прочность...
As an engineer and a designer of many types of weapons I know exactly what I am talking about, so have no need of input from you. I suggest if you are bored go elsewhere as you had your chance here on numerous occasions and as the old saying goes, you blew it with your truculent attitude and “take my bat and ball home” actions. Anyone here can track back over your past posts and gauge your contributions to discussions and can form their own opinion. We are all hostages to the words that we write and you may regret some of yours as here attention spans are not limited to a few minutes as many have long memories.
 

Vlanik

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2009
108
3
58
Sothi
Очень жаль, что это говорит человек называющий себя инженером конструктором...Выдавая не проверенную и не просчитанную информацию, ты вводишь в заблуждения людей...
 
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
Yes, I bought a Cyrano 1.3 (Mares dropped the “Evo” from the name) and my first impression was this whole gun line should have been called the “Devo” as it in my view is an ugly thing with an awful handle that ties it in with their band gun line. The obvious question is why do that as their band guns are nothing to write home about, but that is just my opinion. Anyway my first check was the synchronisation of the line release with the trigger, but unless they changed it I don’t like that rounded lip on the piston’s mushroom tail as at the wrong moment it is just as likely to let go as hold. The sensitivity screw on the trigger sure does need being wound in or problems! I have a very strong trigger finger, or should I say fingers as I can shoot with either hand, so trigger resistance unless it is very hard means nothing to me having used pneumatic guns with 3 mm diameter trigger transmission pins from when I started using a “Sten”, the original model which you have seen in my gun photos.

I still use my Scubapro “Magnum” as I am used to it, I only bought the Cyrano 1.3 thinking of your conversion project and it was on special. After seeing my associate’s gun I think maybe I should have bought a Quasimodo from Cressi-Sub as it looks better than the Cyrano and has a more appropriate shape lower handle.

Mares should just make a finger grip over handle for the current “Sten” rather than change the gun to a side line release as it isn’t really worth the hassle.
Just in case there's no air in that dEvo could I ask a favor? Would it be possibly to measure the length of the trigger pin for me? I only bought the handle and it didn't come with a pin, I just assumed it was an 18mm long one like most of my other guns, so that's what I stuck in there.
But the trigger pull is awfully short - even with the adjustment screw backed all the way out. I don't mind shortish trigger pulls but this is a bit nervous and I would say almost unsafe for people who may just be picking this gun up for the first time. If yours is 18mm, too then I really think Mares made a mistake.

Ah, wait - I have a UBL piston in it, so I guess the diameter of the piston tail has a say, too... I might see if I also have the "Evo" piston and compare the two.
 

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Just in case there's no air in that dEvo could I ask a favor? Would it be possibly to measure the length of the trigger pin for me? I only bought the handle and it didn't come with a pin, I just assumed it was an 18mm long one like most of my other guns, so that's what I stuck in there.
But the trigger pull is awfully short - even with the adjustment screw backed all the way out. I don't mind shortish trigger pulls but this is a bit nervous and I would say almost unsafe for people who may just be picking this gun up for the first time. If yours is 18mm, too then I really think Mares made a mistake.

Ah, wait - I have a UBL piston in it, so I guess the diameter of the piston tail has a say, too... I might see if I also have the "Evo" piston and compare the two.
I have not depressurised it, but I think those spare parts sites have that transmission pin listed for the "Cyrano Evo" as it will be the same in all the "Evo" body guns with that high inner barrel. We know Mares pushed the barrel up in the gun to create a bigger transfer port in the partitioning bulkhead, but maybe more marketing spin than anything else.as the "variator" is a fatter piston plug and still sits in the airflow.

Another reason for the “nervous trigger” is that rounded mushroom tail piston lip I mentioned before. Combined with a pre-tilted sear lever, which I have remarked on in earlier threads at some length, the sear tooth only has to descend from the shank of the piston’s mushroom tail by a tiny amount and the gun shoots! That was a big mistake. When my subconscious sees the “planets aligning” the “shoot now” command causes me to haul back on the trigger instantly. I don’t ever squeeze the trigger slowly, yet I rarely miss. That is down to my many decades of bumping off fish and conserving my strength by keeping the gun reloads to a minimum on any dive, in other words each shot has to count.

If the “Cyrano” proves troublesome then I will not hesitate to throw away the rounded edge "Cyrano Evo" piston and replace it with a "Sten" piston and get rid of the pre-tilt on the sear lever, and if necessary replace it with the “Sten“ sear lever as well, although they may be identical. Shortening the “Cyrano Evo” trigger transmission pin is another option, although it does have to reach up further in the high inner barrel gun.
cyrano evo problems.jpg
 
Last edited:

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
2,938
571
153
Australia
Now I await the wrath (or thanks) of "Cyrano Evo" lovers. Meanwhile the Mares "old-timers" and pioneers are spinning in their graves at high rotation to see what has become of their beloved guns, although the quality is still there and the proven "Sten " is still in production, which made their name and continues to do so.
 
OP
OP
Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,261
303
138
Shanghai
Edo, the good man behind edosub.it, just measured an Evo trigger for me. He said it's 18.6mm. So, the pin I was using was pretty much the same. I'll measure the two different piston tails next and try to conclude on it, but as of right now, it's an extremely shallow trigger pull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk