gliding phase with monofin or not?

[silvia]

we re discussing in our club actually the advantage and the disadvantage while swimming with mono- doing 2 fin beats and glide for 2 seconds or just swim without this phase and beat all the time. the ones who are convinced swimming wihtout gliding say, it would be too much physical effort starting after the gliding phase the whole technique??? so what do you think--- iam confused
best O2 regards
Silvia from Germany

 

[Kars]

Different people, different muscle types, different apnea levels, different optimal approach.

 

[fflupo]

with a good technic / less drag you will not loose lots of speed quick, it is really like gliding and focusing on relaxation but still keeping a streamlined body position..

if i am training sprints than i stay finning all the time and it is a hard ride

with the stroke and glide technic it is more enjoyable and gives me more total distance

do you have videos of your technics?

 

[monkeyhatfork]

Fredric Sessa has the current world record with a relatively fast contsant kick-though mullins has done a bit further kick and glide I think your approach to physical conditioning and what your body type can tolerate best makes that choice for you as well as what is more enjoyable for you personally but they appear to yield about the same result-yeah your saving some energy gliding but your also extending your dive time considerably without nessesarily extending the distance much at least in this case
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYtcKL_8LaM]YouTube - FRED SESSA - NEW DYNAMIC WORLD RECORD: 255m[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9ZkAJz8J7U]YouTube - WWC2010 - Dave MullinsDYN (257) .MP4[/ame]

 

[Bill]

A few comments.
If you accelerate/decelerate, the power required is greater than traveling constantly at the same average speed.
There is a significant difference in drag between the kick and glide phases.
Since two of the very best use such different techniques, you have to wonder if there isn't another, better, way.

 

[Mullins]

If you accelerate/decelerate, the power required is greater than traveling constantly at the same average speed.

Why do you say that Bill? The efficiency equation is simply the power you put in vs the drag you incur. The power you put in to overcome inertia with each stroke is no disadvantage, because you get it back again (minus friction) when you glide to a standstill again. Very different from other obvious sporting examples that come to mind, where people or vehicles are actively braking themselves.

 

[Simos]

Interesting discussion guys - I've often wondered what the optimal 'style' is myself so it's really interesting to see what you guys think; at least in theory (as in practice I'm sure it depends on so many other parameters that have to do with one's body).

If it was just about power efficiency, would it not make more sense to go slower? If I'm not mistaken, the power needed to overcome drag increases as the cube of the velocity.
Obviously it would take you more time to complete the dive but if you do have the capacity (i.e. static time) it sounds like the slower you can go the more efficient it would be... (but then again I'm sure there is something wrong with my reasoning!!!)

In practice, it sounds like striking the right balance for your body by trial and error might be the best way for us to go although I might be open to trying a bit more what Dave has to recommend... lol

 

[monkeyhatfork]

mullins, if you were to do a higher speed constant kick(as in the sessa record) how do you think you're training would change or would you stick with the short but high intensity sessions

 

[Bill]

Thanks for taking me to task Dave. Nothing like an old man rethinking something that he's accepted as fact for so long. I've run through some examples of why I believe that, and the best I can do is;

Assume one meter per second average and a 50/50 kick/glide cycle. (Exact numbers are irrelevant).
Assume one tenth horsepower for constant speed. (WAG)

It would take .225 hp to maintain 1.5 meters per second and average power for kick and glide will be 12.5% more than for steady speed (.225+0/.1+.1). If the drag coefficient is the same you would spend more time below the average speed than above it. More likely, if the drag coefficient at .225 output plus zero output is more than 10% less than twice that at .1 hp output, then I concede.

 

[silvia]

Thank u so much guys all your comments help me to take the courage to find out my own style!!