gold coating vs open cell

[pfeffinski]

hello, im a beginner freediver, i do fun dives in shallow waters from the shore (not below 10 meters, though in near futur i might go until around 20 meters) and plan to get my very first wetsuit. i've been in contact with elio sub and they propose me some interesting suits. i'm quite sure i will go for a 5mm yamamoto 45 with superstretch lining outside. (warmth and comfort is very important for me) inside i need to choose between classic open cell and gold coated cell.. i read some older posts about the gold coating, seems most people didnt have a good opinion about it, but many of them didnt try it themself..

could someone tell me if the gold coating is worth it?

elio sub assured me that the coated version is just as warm and adherent as normal open cell, that it is nice slippery, way easier to put on and it would last for several years before it flakes off and turns into a normal open cell..

btw how many years lasts a soft yamamoto wetsuit with outer lining anyways, if i dont use it very regular (max. once per week) and wash and store it properly?

thanks!!!

 

[vrokhlenko]

I had an Elios gold lining suit and switched to Polosub because a) I wanted to try something new and b) they had a website at the time that was easier to navigate. In my opinion the most important is the fitment of the suit - the more unusual body shape you have - the more important the fit becomes. I have a huge chest so the off-the-shelf solution does not work for me. For some people a custom suit is an overkill. Going back to your question - no I did not observe any benefits of Elios over Polosub. As far as warmth - the suit must correspond to the water temperature. I use 5mm top/3mm bottom open cell in - nylon out Polosub in a 23 degrees water with termocline to probably 16 degrees. Too warm for me - I am opening the jacket periodically to let water in. Polosub does not disclose the maker of the neoprene but the 5mm jacket is indestructible. As far as Yamamoto - 'soft' means compressible. So if you start going deeper - it will become thinner and colder. Based on my research Yamamoto 38 is the best compromise between resiliency, warmth and longevity among Yamamoto rubber. But my Polosub is PROBABLY Heiwa and I do not need a better suit. Also the measurements are extremely important, especially as thickness is going up and strechability down. So a 3mm piece is way more forgiving as 5mm - measure several times!

 

[pfeffinski]

thanks allot for your answer!! im sure i want a custom made wetsuit, as im quite skinny and tall. (i havent tride any open cell yet but with dobble lined rental suits in standard size i made a quite horrible and claustrophobic experience) plus i want a pee valve, as i pee kind of non stop when being in water

i also wanted to go for polosub first, as their website and the more limited options seem easier for me, but elio can make me a female pee valve in form of a crotch zipper, while polosub would put me the same tube as for boys, just in different location.. the tube might be better option to avoid water flushing in, but i think i will not feel comfortable with it

anyways.. so the gold coated cell keeps the water out and warmth in, just same as a normal open cell? and is it really that much easier to put it on? and did the coating last a while or it flaked off quickly?

regarding yamamoto 45.. can you tell me at which depth the compression will be significant?

and regarding temperature, i live in barcelona, will dive mainly in meditarrean sea (14-24 celcius) and canary islands (around 20 celcius) thats a wide range, i know and i guess earlier or later i will get 2 different suits, but for now i want one which can be used most of the time and i suppose thats a 5mm.. also i get cold very quick, so i might be good in 5mm even in warm waters, only practise will show that i guess..

anyways, im really thankfull for any suggestions and i will definitly read more about the yamamoto 39, thanks for the hint!!

greetings

 

[pfeffinski]

yamamoto 38 you said, not 39.. just realized it

 

[vrokhlenko]

Well, about Yamamoto. I am going from memory but I looked into that extensively. There was a lot of info on it in the Ukrainian sites and I speak both Russian and Ukrainian. 45 is a superior rubber - low compression, good warmth and flexibility, expensive. 39 is soft but compressed faster - for shallow divers. 38 is the best compromise including costs. But what custom suit makers in Ukraine complained about - the sheets of Yamamoto would arrive inconsistent in shape and thickness so they would get less useful material from a sheet. There was also a comparison between 38 and some Taiwanese neoprene and the difference in performance and durability was negligible. Now, as far as your situation - you need 5 mm. In my opinion either Polo or Elios would be a good choice. Pissette is something I am unfamiliar with. My personal record is 7 times in 4 hours so I just wash the suit well. Honestly I would have gone in your case with a skin in nylon out - Elios or Polo do not use bad rubber. For more flexibility you can go skin in and out but it is prone to tears. Like I said before,other key is measurements. For example you can get a tight croch if you measure your pants incorrectly or the jacket is too short so the beaver tail applies pressure down south

 

[pfeffinski]

you mean smooth skin inside? is it more comfortable then open cell? but open cell us warmer right?

outside i will probably take superstrech lycra lining.. sounds like a good mix of flexibilty and strength.. smooth skin outside i dont wanna try as a beginner.. im afraid to destroy it, also i dive allot from shore and will definitly come in contact with rocks and stuff sometimes..

thanks for all the advices!! and yes i will messure several times, thats for sure

 

[vrokhlenko]

you mean smooth skin inside? is it more comfortable then open cell? but open cell us warmer right?

outside i will probably take superstrech lycra lining.. sounds like a good mix of flexibilty and strength.. smooth skin outside i dont wanna try as a beginner.. im afraid to destroy it, also i dive allot from shore and will definitly come in contact with rocks and stuff sometimes..

thanks for all the advices!! and yes i will messure several times, thats for sure

Smooth and open is the same thing. Open cell is actually an incorrect term - an open cell foam is not waterproof. What they mean is naked rubber or unlined. For the shore dive lined outside is the best. Also learn how to glue neoprene. When you order your suite - ask them to include a 2 mm thick piece of neoprene, preferably UNLINED on both sides, but at least on one. As large as they can throw in for free. Useful for repairs - sometimes just gluing the edges of the tear is not enough and you need a patch. The key here is that the patch can NEVER BE LESS STRETCHY than the material you are patching. So I suggest a 2mm unlined patch - it is stretchy and thin. Obviously the patch has to be glued inside and unlined to unlined rubber. Cut a patch oval or round in shape - no angles. Cheers!

 

[pfeffinski]

nice, great advice thanks allot!! i will definitly ask them for some extra rubber thanks again for your time!!

 

[hteas]

Forget the gold. Metals reflect heat if there is a gap with air in it between the surface of the metal and your skin . In direct contact with your skin it will suck off heat in small amounts, because metals generally transfer heat aw3ay from a heat source (your skin).

Smooth skin and open cell are very different. Smooth skin is the surface of the rubber when it is made. Open cell is basically a process where a special machine fillets the rubber sheet into 2 sheets half as thick and one side of each sheet being skin and the other as open cell. Nylon may or may not be glued to the skin side. Neoprene foam is made with closed cells, so the open cell structure is a whole bunch of tiny suction cups against your skin. The suction cups hold the warmed water in place, keeping you warmer.

 

[pfeffinski]

thanks allot for your advice and explanations!! makes sense to me.. yeah i think i will skip the gold coating and go for "normal" open cell with lining outside.. and get used to lube my wetsuit anyways as i read in a older thread, the coated one still needs some lube as well to put it on, so not so many benefits for big money

 

[marco15499]

Smooth and open is not the same. Smooth you'll see slick and smooth. Open cell you'll see the inner side of the wetsuit kind of "porous" as it has been cut through the bubbles. Gold lining makes the suit easier to wear, but you'll need lube anyway so, if you have to pay a premium for that, I'll save that money.
Alway use soapy water when wearing the wetsuit. Just make sure it is dilluted to avoid skin irritations.
Elios suits are great and durable, and they know their stuff. Follow their advices and you can't go wrong. You won't regret buying from them.
As for durability, if you dive up to -10 meters, your wetsuit won't compress. If you dive to 20 meters consistently, it will. Normal life for a good wetsuit is 3-4 years, but you can stretch it maybe to 5 years. It doesn't mean that after that it will disintegrate, but all of them eventually will loose thickness.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Smooth and open is not the same. Smooth you'll see slick and smooth. Open cell you'll see the inner side of the wetsuit kind of "porous" as it has been cut through the bubbles. Gold lining makes the suit easier to wear, but you'll need lube anyway so, if you have to pay a premium for that, I'll save that money.
Alway use soapy water when wearing the wetsuit. Just make sure it is dilluted to avoid skin irritations.
Elios suits are great and durable, and they know their stuff. Follow their advices and you can't go wrong. You won't regret buying from them.
As for durability, if you dive up to -10 meters, your wetsuit won't compress. If you dive to 20 meters consistently, it will. Normal life for a good wetsuit is 3-4 years, but you can stretch it maybe to 5 years. It doesn't mean that after that it will disintegrate, but all of them eventually will loose thickness.

When you are talking a specialized freediving/spearfishing suit - they are all "open cell" which they are really not but are actually closed cell with some bubbles cut across that indeed aids suction. It is confusing but when you are buying from Elios/Polosub you will get quality (as long as you do not order internally lined stuff). My 5.5mm Polosub jacket is used for 30-40 days every year and probably is 9 years old. 3mm pants last 3 years at most - the knee pads start to get undone. Despite weak Euro against USD ordering from Italy is crazy expensive now - but she is in Barcelona - cheaper shipping but a lovely 20+% VAT . Whatever she gets - will be fine!

 

[pfeffinski]

thanks so much for your time and all the info!! so compression will not be a big issue for the moment as my dives will mainly stay below 10 meters.. deeper dives will (hopefully) happen too, but not as regular.. i will definitly go with yamamoto45 open cell and superstretch lining outside.. so excited allready