Good static apnea bad dynamic apnea

[apnea newbie]

Hi there !

I began freediving 3-4 weeks ago. My freediving is so far just constrained to pool diving. Up in sweden this time of year the water isnt to warm.

I have gone from a static apnea for 1 minute when i began diving to a static for 3 minutes and 35 seconds in just 3-4weeks. I never in my wildest dreams thought this was possible... but truly it is.

Now to my problem. Though my static apnea for 3.35 i cant swim further than 50 meters in a pool. i Have done like 60 meters, but then i was really out of my limits.

Why the heck cant i swim furhter then 50, can it be that i have a hard time relaxing when i am swimming or something like that ?

i can admit that im more relaxed in the static mode than in the dynamic. When i am doing my static i am almost like half sleeping or something. I just cant seem to get to this state of mind when im swimming. Why ????

 

[Erik]

Hey buddy, don't beat yourself up too much; your dynamic swim is quite good. When you swim you are going to burn oxygen; there's not much you can do about that except practice. Try to improve your hydrodynamic positioning in the water and improve your stroke. Work on your CO2 resistance with pranayama yoga, and meditate to learn how to feel what's happening in your body, thereby improving your awareness. Be careful in the pool, people do die in pools. Good luck. The water over here in the lakes is pretty damned cold too! Cheers, Erik

 

[apnea newbie]

Thx Erik !

pranayama yoga and meditation... OK Got it Thx man !

Anyone know of good books or good websites where i can find some information on this ?

Yoga of any kind and other breathing excersises to would be great. So if you got any good books or websites just let me know.

 

[Erik]

URL

Hey amigo, check out www.yogaclass.com , and follow the links for "breathe" and "pranayama". These will get you going. I have some of my pre-dive techniques posted on this forum that might work for you as well. Let us know how you're doing with your times and distance....they are good and maybe we'll see you on the Swiss freediving team? Why not? Go for it. Cheers, Erik

 

[apnea newbie]

Thx for the site Erik !

These excercises looks great ill check'em out. I will have a look at your predive instructions to. And perhaps u will see me on the swedish team, on the swiss i think not since im from sweden

Thx for the help and here is a good site where u can download MP3's of Breathing Yoga...and also read excercises.

Here goes :

http://www.yogabasics.com/mainpage.html


Cu around Erik !

 

[Erik]

!

Originally posted by apnea newbie
Thx for the site Erik !

And perhaps u will see me on the swedish team, on the swiss i think not since im from sweden

OOPS! Swedish team, then. Is there some rivalry between the countries? Erik:duh

 

[apnea newbie]

HEHE !

Rivalry ? perhaps, u go figure out :t


Just kidding !

 

[apnea newbie]

A quople of weeks later

Hi !

Now a few weeks later, with intense training im doing 75 meters in the pool and my static has gone up to 4 minutes.
I dunno if the 75 meters are me or the new fins i bought. A real freediving fin gives a little bit of a more kick then my old Mares

I still have some problem, i want to raise my barrier when i have to breath, on my first breathhold i can like hold it for 1.30 minutes and after that it gets longer. U got an idea how i can raise the first breathhold limit to ? should one do breathing excersises before jumping into the pool ? i would rather not do that, but if thats the only way, but i wanna be "unprepared" and get breathold up against 2 minutes atleast, the question is HOW ?

 

[groats]

Back from the past

I know this thread is WAY out of date, but `Apnea Newbie` has asked the questions that bother me all the time... I read the post and then FOUND NO REPLY!

Please, these answers could help me and maybe others a lot

Greets Joe :thankyou

 

[derelictp]

I will try to give you an answer from my point of view:

When I began training statics I had very big difference between first apnea and my max apnea. (Similar as you.)

I belive the ability to do long times on the first attempt is a training thing. The improvement from training is that you learn to go to the really relaxed state faster. A beginner needs more apneas before getting in the right relaxed state.
Try to concentrate on relaxing every muscle in the body, including small muscles in the neck and the tongue etc. The only muscles you will use then is the breathing muscles....
A good thing to help you on relaxing is having a buddy that drag you through the water during the breathup. (Lie on your back in the water).

Another question you should ask yourself is do you breathe in the same way for the first attempt as for the max? For me the breathing gets more "natural" after the first breathhold and breathing needs no focus. For the first attempt I have to focus more on the breathing itself and off course this affects the relaxation.

Of course your CO2 tolerance increase the first 3-4 apneas and the blood gets more Hb and the Ph will be higher resulting in longer breathholds.

Probably you can ventilate harder on the first attempt. Try to experiment with different degree of ventilation and listen to your body so that you learn to know when your CO2 levels/blood PH are correct for optimizing your performance. This takes a long time but if you wan't to reach your full potential you need to learn this.

Some people benefit from strong hyperventilation and others do not and remember to always have a buddy watching when you do statics!

 

[JMD]

Quick note on hyperventalation.

We were practicing statics in the pool last night and I took my usual 15 to 20 breaths to blow of CO2 prior to going down for a 2min warm up.

My buddy going down after me did about 12 and had a minor LOMC upon his final inhalation (we were all fairly ammused to see a samba at -5 secs of breathhold time but at least he recovered quickly).

Anyway, long story short it appears there is a WIDE variation between how different people adapt to that technique. Also stresses the importance of always diving with a buddy!

 

[derelictp]

Yes, strong hyperventilation can cause blackout during breathup or during the first seconds of breathhold, especially if you use "packing".

15-20 breaths is in my opinion a very strong hyperventilation if you do complete breaths. (Offcourse depending on the rate of the breaths.)

People with low bloodpressure will probably be more sensitive to this.

 

[Mr. X]

LOMC? :hmm That's a new one on me. Oh, I see "loss of motor control (LOMC or LMC)".
So that means blackout?:ko
:crutch[Better than coughing up blood or destroying your ears I suppose... ...or maybe not?] :crutch

Great sport!:crutch:duhrofl rofl

 

[immerlustig]

...not necessarily better since you can drown. there are many things a safety freediver/spotter can do wrong and cause complications during a recovery from a bo. therefore a bo is a serious risk.

roland

 

[Absolute]

training + education = safety

 

[Sander]

Hi Guys,

Also reading this thread way out of date. Started freediving also, bought cressi garas on Bonaire . I've been checking this site for freediving videos to practice my technique, but I'm having a hard time finding them. I've been trying the dolphin kick (with my bi-fins). Any good videos on bi-fin dolhpin kick?

Thanks,

Sander

 

[Aber]

For dolphin kick video try Apneamania.com and go to training tips, then dynamic and dynamic training. There are som good videos by Peder Pedersen that show you how to develop a monofintechnique wich probably is how you should do dolphin kicks with bifins as well. But I would recommend bifinstyle with bifins for both dynamics and constantweight (here Pellizzaris manual will tell you what you need to know). If you like the dolphin kick you should definetly try to get a monofin.

 

[naiad]

I have the worst static/dynamic ratio of any freediver I know. In the last week I have done a new wet static PB of 4:16 without any problems, but my dynamic performance is a different story. Yesterday I did 30m without fins, with a reasonably good technique and no excessive strokes or buoyancy problems. It was the absolute limit of my endurance, and I could not have done even a metre more. I have been making reasonable efforts to keep fit, so I don't think this is the problem. It is more likely to be due to weakness caused by a chronic chest infection which started a few months ago.

Help!

(I'm very pleased with the static progress though)

Lucia

 

[DeepThought]

Help is on it's way:

Get rid of that chest infection. Be active and initiative = consult various doctors etc.
Consider reducing training capacity as apnea weakens your immune system (or so I read on these forums).

What does "absolute limit of my endurance" means? CO2? O2? Lactic acid (on 30m? I doubt).

How many strokes did it take you? maybe there is room for some improvement there...

 

[naiad]

Hi Michael, thanks for replying.

I am trying to get rid of the chest infection - my doctor is not helpful, but I am researching it myself.

I have always had big problems with upper respiratory infections, and this hasn't got worse since starting apnea training. Apart from this, I am not prone to any other kind of infections, so I don't think my immune system is too bad. In fact, I have always done all sorts of careless things like putting my hands in the most muddy ponds when I have cuts on them, and the only thing that has made me ill is catching colds and flu.

Absolute limit of my endurance = just about ready to pass out! (and lactic acid too)

This week I did the same distance again, but this time with my arms only (and an incredible number of strokes, because I was on the surface with a buoyant suit, but still holding my breath the whole way). Despite the fact that this took much more time and effort, it was much easier. I came up after 33m feeling that I could easily have done more.

This makes me think that the problem is with my legs. Even with normal swimming, I can't do more than about 30m front crawl, because any activity that uses my legs leaves me desperately out of breath. This is a problem in the gym as well. It was the same before the chest infection, so I don't blame it on that.

I am going to ask the gym instructor for help, as maybe there is something I can do to strengthen my legs.

Lucia