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Hands-Free(BTV) Equalization advice

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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darthtony

Active Member
Sep 17, 2009
5
1
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Hi, i am a newbie freediver, and 4-5 years back,(in my teens) i completely accidentaly(i am not sure how) figured out how to voluntarily open my eustachian tubes. Basically, i can make my ears "click" whenever i want to, provided that i am not congested. Now, for the past years, have been spearfhishing very rarely(1-10 times a year) on shallow(<8m) waters and have been equalizing hands-free.
Now recently,(in the last week or so) me and another friend have been doing some freediving training(i reached a max depth of 20m) and i am trying to work my equalization technique and i have some questions:

1. I generaly equalize hands-free, but sometimes i cant do it , especially on fast descent, so sometimes i use the valsalva manoveur in conjuction with BTV, as follows: I pinch my nose, and attempt to push air with my lungs, now no matter how hard i push, air doesnt normally flow to the middle ear, so at this point i voluntarily open them to aqualize. Basically i continiously "click" my ears during the descent, but if i notice that i am not equalizing fast enough(it usually takes 2-3 "clicks" to fully equalize at a specific depth) then i pinch my nose and apply pressure with my diafragm as i continue clicking my ears. Is this normal/good practice?
2. In deep dives(<15m) i noticed i have increasing difficulty moving my diafragm(either to use the technique i mentioned above, or to equalize my mask), what can i do to aleviate this?Should i be trying to learn the frenzel?What should i do with mask equalization?

Generally any input from people who use the BTV method would be very usefull. Should i concetrate more on learning more advanced techniques like frenzel or should i stick with BTV since it seems to work?
 
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IMO learn Eric F's mouthfill. Try it from the surface to get the hang of it and then learn to do it at 10 metres. This will take you as deep as you need.
Also try Pro Plugs or cotton in your ears (plugs are better), and a warm hood or 2. I don't know your water temps, but cold will always make it harder to equalise.
Cheers,
Erik
 
Well, i havent figured out the frenzel yet, so i cant do a mouthfill. I can equalize BTV(with occasional valsalva "assist" as i described above) down to 20m .I havent tried any deeper, because of my apnea abilities, but i dont think i would have too much of a problem equalizing a bit below that. I am mostly looking for advice from people who also use BTV in conjuction with the methods you mentioned, because while it really is an effortless and soft method for my ears, it complicates things a little when i am trying to learn the frenzel, because i instictively do it every time.
 
What you are doing for BTV is right, keep clicking, start early and, if you miss a few, back up and start over. Valsalva with BTV isn't very efficient. Research frenzel. The combination of frenzel and BTV is what I use. You can do a very light frenzel, no hands, against mask pressure, while clicking. It makes your BTV much more effective(need less clicks) and deeper.

Stretching, both diaphragm and intercostal, helps with equalization as you get deeper.
 
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Pretty much what Connor said. You want to learn to Frenzel. If you have BTV it will come much, much easier, and you should be able to Frenzel hands free with a mask...

For someone with natural BTV, Frenzel is just the BTV you've always done but with a throat lock (closed glottis); if you kept spearing and diving deeper you would probably stumble onto the throat lock part on your own, although to reliably and easily go below residual volume you need to be able to effortlessly maintain the throat lock while opening your etubes, and it gets much harder when you are actually diving with elevated CO2, banging dive response, possible nitrogen narcosis, competition expectations, and several atmospheres of pressure on your chest. From what you describe, you probably are hitting RV around 25M. The mouthfill with tounge piston, relaxed soft palate, and throat lock that you hear so much about will help you equalize your mask once you get below RV, however if you have easy natural BTV the effectiveness of 'frenzel' vs 'mouthfill' when it comes to your ears may be negligable (for non BTV divers the effectiveness of the two techniques seem to differ a lot). If you go over to the darkside and pinch your nose/wear a noseclip traditional mouthfill with tounge piston might buy you extra depth if you can stay relaxed (I usually can't!)

Most of the above is assuming you can open your etubes while maintaining your throat lock; it seems some people who can open their etubes (BTV) can't do so independently of their throat lock and/or soft palate. BTV has always been as easy as blinking for me, although all the other aspects have taken much practice and are an ongoing journey. Currently I can comfortably EQ handsfree, head down in a mask to about 57M. I have done it in glass mask but compressible plastic Sphera is easier.

Also, you may want to practice actually holding the etubes open instead of just clicking them open momentarily. It is difficult but my deepest most comfortable dives to date usually require throat lock+relaxed soft palate+tubes held open, some reverse packing.
 
Thank you all very much for your input. I seem to be able to open my tubes with the epiglottis closed(however it is more difficult), but not independetely of the soft palate position.(I think the muscles that i use for BTV are the same that you use to move the soft palate). However i am a bit confused. How would a throat lock(i assume you mean closed epiglotis) alone help me in deeper dives?
 
You need the throat lock to hold air in your mouth, separate from the lungs once you are past residual volume. If the throat lock opens the pressure difference will pull the air in your mouth which you are using to eq into your lungs ('lost mouthfill').
 
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I've a question about BTV. How often should I click ("equalize")? Should it be constant clicking? How BTV works when you reach RV?
 
BV works best with lots of fast "clicks" as you descend. Doing them fast doesn't allow much pressure diferential to build up, so its easier to open the valves.

BTV stops working when you really reach RV, but is likely to be deeper than you think. Air pressure to push air into the E tubes must come from somewhere. Various ways to do that, greater chest flexiibility, bringing up air from the lungs with a pumping motion in the throat, contract the chest, etc.
 
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BV works best with lots of fast "clicks" as you descend. Doing them fast doesn't allow much pressure diferential to build up, so its easier to open the valves.

BTV stops working when you really reach RV, but is likely to be deeper than you think. Air pressure to push air into the E tubes must come from somewhere. Various ways to do that, greater chest flexiibility, bringing up air from the lungs with a pumping motion in the throat, contract the chest, etc.

Thanks cdavis! I still have a couple of questions:

1. When you practice BTV with mask (no noseclip) do you suppose to fill some air escaping to the mask? It almost fills like you blowing a little air into the mask.
2. Where is your tong placed during BTV?
3. Are your adams apple moving up on BTV equalization?
 
On air into the mask, of course. You have to equalize both ears and mask as you descend.

BTV is a little strange, there are a million ways to do it. Some people (me) are lucky enough to be able to conciously move the muscles that control the E valves, just like you move your fingers. For me, nothing else has to move. Most others come to BTV by experimentation. They start out moving stuff in the head and throat, tongue, ears, scalp, adams apple, etc, until they can pull open the valves. Practice makes it easier. I think some of them eventually figure out how to open the valves like I do. It varies all over the place
 
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hmmm? I also really easy can click my ears (works in the train and on the plain). The Ear doc already checked and look into my ears, if I do it by my way (without piston, tongue etc.) the ear drum bulges. But in water feels like the water pressure is to strong and I can't do it. Only after I use my tongue or move my throat (frenzel like) for more pressure in the mouth, then I feel the blop. But this feels really forced. If I don't pinch my nose much air comes out of my mask and don't blop. I'am afraid I don't do it right, but now I test this technique when I do uddiyana bandha and it works, so no air from the lung.
What do you do in the water, mouth fill? then just open the valves can't regulate the pressure... or?
I think (hope) I just miss a little detail
 
I can open E valves and click my ears outside water too. I'm also hearing sound like it comes from within my head when I am saying something and keep E valves open, but in the water it's much harder. I've managed to descent 10 meters on summer when the water was warm and I had no hood. The question is how to make it more reliable and make it work in the winter to? And another question is how you do BTV when you reach RV?
 
The muscles that control the E valves are not very strong and are not able to open the valves against much pressure. Therefore, descend slow and click your ears as fast as you can, so the little pressure can build up. Practice makes the valve muscles stronger. Click them often and a lot, say 50 or 100 times, several times a day. You want to feel like the muscles are getting tired.

As a normal practice, I use a combination of BTV and frenzel against the mask, so lightly that there is n0 need to grab my nose unless I miss an equalization when descending fast. With practice you can do this.

BTV below RV requires something to get air into the throat. Mouthfil is the best way, not something that I can do. For me, the problem is solved by training chest flexibility. That gets me to 90+ diving half lung, plenty deep enough for me.
 
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Some guys use pinch and blow for the first 10M or so and then find that past that point they can use BTV. The deeper you go the pressure changes are less abrupt so it may get easier until you start getting into RV territory.
 
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Thank you guys for the answers! I practice clicking and will continue to do so, can't do it against the mask yet...
cdavis you're talking about 90 feet am I correct? How you train chest flexibility? What exercise you do?

I've managed to do 41 meters with Frenzel, will have to learn mouth fill to go deeper...
 
feet, yes. I'm not a deep diver. Haven't tried 40 m full lung in a long time. Probably could do it today, but couldn't in the past.

3-4` days a week, empty, reverse pack diaphragm stretches, Then intercostal stretches, two kinds, 20 minute workout. The intercostal stretches seem to do more good for depth than the diaphragm stretches. Together, they extend my depth range by about 10-15 ft, diving half lung. Diving full lung, depth extension would be more, but not sure how much, depends on how deep you are diving. I push the diaphragm stretches right up to the edge of squeeze. It makes some difference on equalization depth, but a big difference on how sensitive to squeeze I am in the water.

Note: Any diver who tries reverse pack empties, be very careful. You can squeeze yourself, right on the couch. Its easy to do and hard to see coming.
 
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Sitting or standing, hands together as far above the head as possible, full breath, bend side to side, 30 seconds or so to the side. I twist when stretching, then stretch some more. Sit down cross legged, bend sideways, elbow on the floor, opposite arm high over head, bring the arm toward the floor as far as you can, 30 seconds. This should stretch the muscles connecting rib cage and pelvis. Then bend the elbow, palm over the head and stretch again. The last stretches the intercostals a slightly different way from the first stretch.

Thats just my uneducated routine. Works for me, but there are probably better ways to do it.
 
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