Hands free vs. Frenzel

[FreeRestriction]

Ive been reading up on how to do hands free equalizing. As i understand it, it wastes air in order to do so? Similar to valsalva but with a lot less force because your flexing that little muscle to open up your e-tubes. Perhaps some do q frenzel/hands free hybrid? Im pretty sure i can do hands free pretty easily if i try because i have good control over that little muscle.. But why do it? Is there other gains beyond just being hands free? Id prefer frenzel to a hands free valsalva type equalization.

Feel free to quote and correct errors in my understanding of hands free equalizing.

 

[Fondueset]

I am not sure of the distinction here. Frenzel, Valsalva: either can be done hands free or not and without wasting air. It is simply a matter of if you need to manually hold your nose closed or not. The primary advantage of hands free is streamlining and, of course, having your hands free. It depends upon the ease with which you are able to equalize - which depends upon the control you have of your eustachian tubes and also other variables over which you may not have control.

 

[Simos]

I love hands-free personally - it's super convenient and having your hands free makes FIM and CNF a lot simpler. For example, have you tried no fins? It takes some skill to maintain decent technique and equalise using your hand at the same time...

 

[sai]

Ive been reading up on how to do hands free equalizing. As i understand it, it wastes air in order to do so? Similar to valsalva but with a lot less force because your flexing that little muscle to open up your e-tubes. Perhaps some do q frenzel/hands free hybrid? Im pretty sure i can do hands free pretty easily if i try because i have good control over that little muscle.. But why do it? Is there other gains beyond just being hands free? Id prefer frenzel to a hands free valsalva type equalization.

Feel free to quote and correct errors in my understanding of hands free equalizing.

Did you actually try it underwater? A lot of people can pop the tubes open on land, in water it's a whole different story, especially upside down. :duh
I only managed to do it a few times so far, but not having to pinch your nose for equalizing is just a really really cool thing.

 

[FreeRestriction]

Did you actually try it underwater? A lot of people can pop the tubes open on land, in water it's a whole different story, especially upside down. :duh
I only managed to do it a few times so far, but not having to pinch your nose for equalizing is just a really really cool thing.

No i havent tried underwater yet. Im going to FII level 1 class tomorrow and sunday. Depending on how the class goes i may give it a try. If not ill try in a week or two next time im out.

As a kid i always wondered why i could hear my breathing INSIDE my ear when i flexed that area and thought i was just crazy. Now i know i really was able to hear my breathing because i was opening that little muscle. Well see how the added affects of water change things but im sure its just a matter of getting use to doing it under water.

 

[sai]

On land I can hold the tubes open for minutes without any problem, but underwater they ears just don't clear when I try to pop the tubes open.

 

[maui400]

Hands free equalization (BTV) has one disadvantage.
Your mask will always be fully equalized as well, which consumes more air than necessary, especially when your wear a Sphera.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Simos]

No i havent tried underwater yet. Im going to FII level 1 class tomorrow and sunday. Depending on how the class goes i may give it a try. If not ill try in a week or two next time im out.

As a kid i always wondered why i could hear my breathing INSIDE my ear when i flexed that area and thought i was just crazy. Now i know i really was able to hear my breathing because i was opening that little muscle. Well see how the added affects of water change things but im sure its just a matter of getting use to doing it under water.

I'm sure you'll get it eventually but don't be too hard on yourself if you can't do it first time in the water, it's not as easy as it sounds!

But ultimately, if you can do it out of the water, if you can stay relaxed you'll be able to do it in the water too....

 

[Simos]

Hands free equalization (BTV) has one disadvantage.
Your mask will always be fully equalized as well, which consumes more air than necessary, especially when your wear a Sphera.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

This is true in my case at least but as I don't dive very deep and don't push to the limit, it's not so much of a disadvantage to full equalise the mask, it's just one of these things that you have to do.

If you are really concerned with wasting air to equalise the mask, you can suck it back from the mask lol

What is an issue in my case (which is mainly because I haven't practised enough or mastered BTV yet) is that I over-compensate and end up not only fully equalising the mask, but over-filling it with air and some air escapes.

 

[growingupninja]

Hands free equalization (BTV) has one disadvantage.
Your mask will always be fully equalized as well, which consumes more air than necessary, especially when your wear a Sphera.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

I get confused by all terms but the way I eq hands free this definitely not the case; I consciously eq my mask by blowing out my nose, but I don't lose any air whatsoever when I eq my ears. My eq works the same without losing air whether mask, no mask, goggles. Never worn a noseclip but that certainly wouldn't affect it. Without a mask I would need a noseclip for a truly vertical descent but that is only because my sinuses would flood at a vertical angle unless I exhale through my nose. Works to any depth I have gone to unless I am diving on an empty lung for training and am (for empty lung) relatively deep. At that point no technique that I am familiar with besides fattah or flooding sinuses would work anyway, although sometimes I can find some extra air by reverse pack and tucking chin, etc. I do the fattah tounge thing then, but sometimes my ears just eq as normal once I feel that air. Feels like I am opening the tube and pushing with the diaphram although when my lungs are that empty it sensation is confusing. I don't do a lot of those dives since I need to be in ocean to get deep enough. With a full lung I would probably need to be past 150' before it fails.

My eq is just lucky genetics. It has always been effortless, unless I have a very serious sinus issue, butanytime that has happened I could not eq period, with any method.

 

[maui400]

As far as I understand the anatomy of the air passages, nose and ear tubes aren't separated from each other. Thus air pressure will always be the same in the ears as in the mask (unless the nose is locked).

 

[growingupninja]

As far as I understand the anatomy of the air passages, nose and ear tubes aren't separated from each other. Thus air pressure will always be the same in the ears as in the mask (unless the nose is locked).

I have never been deeper than about 20' without a mask but I have done that in goggles and sans goggles, no noseclip, no pinching nose and eq'd fine. Training in a pool I eq all day handsfree in goggles. In that case the water pressure itself could be exerting pressure through my open nostrils.

Wearing a mask in the ocean I know I can continue to eq my ears past the point at which my uneq'd mask is uncomfortable, but since I eq my mask out of habit before I really need to, perhaps such is the case without me realizing and I have never rode the mask to the point of pain. My Cressi Super Ocho I feel like I NEED to eq at 10m, usually again around 25m. Typically I eq sooner though as it is less effort to keep it balanced.

 

[Andrew the fish]

As far as I understand the anatomy of the air passages, nose and ear tubes aren't separated from each other. Thus air pressure will always be the same in the ears as in the mask (unless the nose is locked).

not true. One can learn to isolate lungs, mouth and mask simultaneously. You can ride your mask and at the same time do mouthfull hands free equalizations. It really is cool, I never dive deeper than some 20 meters or so, but sometimes I forget to equalize my mask, say, if I am preoccupied with something, all the while doing hands-free pop-pop-pop on the descent. Soft palate isolates your mask, esophagus isolates lungs. You can learn operating those little things separately. My understanding these techniques is a must if you want to go really deep.

 

[maui400]

interesting. Here you can find a simple sketch of a human head. I can't find a way to isolate the nose (and mask) from the ear tubes without pinching the nose.

 

[growingupninja]

interesting. Here you can find a simple sketch of a human head. I can't find a way to isolate the nose (and mask) from the ear tubes without pinching the nose.

I reread that document. I am probably doing 'diaphramatic frenzel' on the deepest dives I have simulated through reverse packing or exhale in the ocean. Although ANYTIME I do any sort of eq, my tubes open. I just can't help it. I probably learned to do diaphramatic frenzel on accident whe trying to learn Fattah's tounge push. I remember struggling through every conceivable muscle combo until one day without even thinking about I realized I could puff a little bit of air out my nose when deeply reverse packed, using my toungue and throat.

After some thought I agree with Andrew the fish. If there was no way to isolate the tube from the nostril, diaphramatic frenzel would cause air to escape from my nose. But it doesn't. It logically follows that if I need a tiny effort to open the tube and push air up there, when I stop, the tube closes back up, preventing air from leaking out my nose. On deeper dives where I am eqing my mask multiple times, I must be unconsciously inhaling through my nose on ascent because I don't notice bubbles escaping my mask.

Head angle may play a role. For instance, any descent/head angle greater than about 80 degrees (nearly vertical on to 'on my back') is not possible for me do without either letting my sinuses flood, wearing mask/noseclip, or exhaling out the nose.

 

[fabikp]

Maui400, it is not seen at the picture, but Eustachian tubes in "normal" position are closed, you open them only during equalization, so it´s quite common if the ears are equalized and the mask is not or the opposite. Pavel