Heiwa, Yamamoto 45, or Daiwabo

[Slingingsteel]

Have done plenty of searches and haven't really found what i'm looking for. I am getting an Eliossub wetsuit and can't decide on which neoprene I should get. I know the Daiwabo and Heiwa are higher density and will not compress nearly as much at depth as yamamoto 45, but on the downside i've read that these two neoprenes are nowhere near as stretchy or comfortable. Have any of you guys tried these different types of neoprenes? Please share, I don't know whether I should sacrifice comfortability and get the higher density neoprene so it doesn't compress at depth, or get the yamamoto for comfort, not worry about the compressibility, and risk the suit deteriorating over time from continuous deep dives and compression.

Thanks

 

[mm148881]

I have recently bought from Elios sub a Daiwabo 1.5 mm wetsuit, which I use exclusively in the pool. It is smoothskin on the outside and jersey inside. I find it very comfortable, but it is a 1.5 mm! The material though is extraordinarily soft and can stretch a lot. Eliossub also sent me a few pieces of the same Daiwabo neoprene in 3 and 5 mm thickness - why they did this is a mystery to me! Also in this thickness, the Daiwabo is still very soft and stretchy. I have never had a wetsuit in Yamamoto, so I cannot make a direct comparison. On the other hand, compared to other apnea wetsuits I have tried, Beuchat and Cressi, this is a much softer neoprene.

 

[Slingingsteel]

Thanks, still looking for more info.!

 

[chrismar]

I've got a Daiwabo 5mm smoothskin/opencell. It's stretchy and comfortable enough for me - better than my Heiwa MD suits. Yamamoto 45 is still warmer and stretchier though.

 

[Slingingsteel]

I've got a Daiwabo 5mm smoothskin/opencell. It's stretchy and comfortable enough for me - better than my Heiwa MD suits. Yamamoto 45 is still warmer and stretchier though.

So you think the daiwabo is stretchy than heiwa? I thought daiwabo was a little higher density and was tougher (less stretchy) than heiwa. I am now thinking to soft of a neoprene will rip very fast. I will be using this suit for spearfishing off of a boat. I am thinking the Daiwabo 3.5mm open cell/smoothskin.

 

[sross]

I am now thinking to soft of a neoprene will rip very fast. I will be using this suit for spearfishing off of a boat. I am thinking the Daiwabo 3.5mm open cell/smoothskin.

You're right, Springsteel, if you're diving from a boat, you definitely want smoothskin, because evaporative cooling can chill you if you're in the wind on a boat in a suit with water-soked fabric on the outside. Smoothskin dries off instantly and doesn't chill you in a moving boat.

The softer neoprenes are comfier, and warmer, but the durability is very low. If you get Yamamoto45 neoprene smoothskin you should have a can of neoprene glue in your kitbag, because you will inevitably end up doing repairs if you go spearfishing in it. The Daiwabo sounds like a good choice to me! If your spearfishing style includes getting down on the bottom & slinking over the rocks to close in on your prey, you want a suit that resists abrasion better. Some manufacturers will give you the option of having tough, nylon jersey-covered neoprene in high abrasion areas like the knees, forearms & seat.

 

[Slingingsteel]

Yes this is the reason i chose smoothskin for the winter. Also, i will be on the bottom reef hunting , so tearing the suit is big concern for me. Eliossub will put knee and elbow pads but they highy do not recommend. They say the seems will rip far before anything would happen to the suit normally. Mareasub puts knees and elbows without a problem but i like elliosub camo better. Im in such a delima.

 

[pasanen]

I'd take Yamamoto since compressing isn't really a concern, unless you are into high-end competitive freediving. Take smoothskin and if you're worried about tearing, choose nylon lined pants.

Breaking the suit while donning isn't as easy as people say, just remember to lube. Inner coatings are rather needless because it will get worn out and opencell goes almost as good when lubed.

 

[Slingingsteel]

I'd take Yamamoto since compressing isn't really a concern, unless you are into high-end competitive freediving. Take smoothskin and if you're worried about tearing, choose nylon lined pants.

Breaking the suit while donning isn't as easy as people say, just remember to lube. Inner coatings are rather needless because it will get worn out and opencell goes almost as good when lubed.

Well the compressing issue is just for longevity. I would like for the suit to last and the neoprene not compress over time and lose thickness.

 

[chrismar]

I haven't had the suit long enough to vouch for longevity. It's hard to do a side by side comparison with my Heiwa 5mm as that one is several years old. Yamamoto 45 is warmer and stretchier than the Daiwabo though.

I use it for spearfishing and freediving. If you're careful they don't rip easily, but you'll never get the same life out of a smoothie that you would from a nylon outer suit. As it gets old, the smoothie will start ripping more easily and then it's all over.

 

[azapa]

the compression (or not) issue is harder work the thicker the neoprene gets. You feel it big in 7mm, less in 5mm, a tiny bit in 3.5 and probably not at all in 1.5mm Looking at where you live I'm guessing you are going for a thinner suit?

if you spear a lot over rocky/reef etc get a lined outer/open inner. Don't worry about the cooling effect either (again, if you live in Florida) its a non issue, just take your suit off.

 

[Slingingsteel]

the compression (or not) issue is harder work the thicker the neoprene gets. You feel it big in 7mm, less in 5mm, a tiny bit in 3.5 and probably not at all in 1.5mm Looking at where you live I'm guessing you are going for a thinner suit?

if you spear a lot over rocky/reef etc get a lined outer/open inner. Don't worry about the cooling effect either (again, if you live in Florida) its a non issue, just take your suit off.

I believe i have decided on a smoothskin. This will be primarily a suit for the winter. With a jersey out/ open in i have been freezing to death on boat rides in between spots.

btw just cause its Florida doesnt mean it doesnt get cold! :t

 

[Pursuit]

Smooth skin is sensitive to tears. I'd be too paranoid about damaging the suit all the time. Go for open cell inside and lined on the outside.

 

[sross]

Hi Slingingsteel,

I hope I didn't make you too concerned about tearing or abrading in the soft neoprenes. Tears are rare, and fixing them is no big deal, as long as you have your trusty can of glue with you. I've done it myself, and it's no big deal.

The other thing you can do for knee protection is get some jersey-covered neoprene (I got some pieces from a local manufacturer, but you can get it on eBay too, along with glue) and make tubes to slide up over your knees. To make the seam a little sturdier you can use a hand sewing needle and thimble to topstich through the nylon material. These things are good for when you have to be doing stuff on your knees on a hard floor too.

 

[foxfish]

Just about 50/50 then!
I would not even remotely consider a smooth outer skin for my type of spearfishing but, I don't dive from a boat or live in Florida.

I have enough issues with a smooth skin inner! I regularly get small nics & tears & normally my suits get thrown away due to the interior becoming to deteriorated to use anymore!

I now use MTM nylon lined in & out!
Despite the extremely strong following & general opinion that a smooth skin interior is so much warmer by many members on the forum - I have no issues with double lined suits at all!
I grew up with & used nylon lined suits for 20 year before the popularity of smooth skin came around.
I will admit my first MTM smooth skin interior was great, nice & comfy, stretchy & warm however it fell to bits in two years, I had to use lube & be very careful taking it off.
My old style suits would last 4 years keep me warm, no lube required & you could tug & pull as much as you like.
Now I have a diveskin 5mm double lined suit that is two years old still looks like new & works better for me than any smooth skin suit I have owned.
Of course I dont dive deeper that 10m or stay in for more than 3 hours (12-18c) but, I do dive amounst rock & reef walk up & down beaches, sit on rocks to string fish & lye on rock while hunting.

 

[geofinz]

I've got 2 Elios suits, a 5mm in Heiwa that I have had for about 3 years and a 6mm Yamamoto purchased about 6 or so months ago. I used to use the 5mm all 4 seasons but I've gotten old and soft and for the winter just gone decided a little more thermal protection would be a good thing, hence the 6mm. Now summer is here I'm transitioning back to the 5mm. I get out spearfishing year round in water temps ranging from about 9c to 20c, probably about once a week average, so the suits get a reasonable amount of use.

The 6mm yamamoto is a lot stretchier than the heiwa and incredibly comfortable but having said that I can spend all day in my heiwa suit without any discomfort. As for durability I am pretty sure the yamamoto will not take the same abuse as the Heiwa and will not wear anywhere near as well. The 3 year old heiwa suit still looks near new and I think has another couple of years use in it.

As for compression my diving is not deep enough for it to be an issue regardless of the suit.

 

[Slingingsteel]

Thanks, ordered a 3.5mm open in/ painted smooth out in Heiwa Neoprene. Should be here next month, will post some pics when i get it!