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Hello, and some questions.

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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Hello, my name is actually James and i happen to be a biochemist.

I also am, as Kate Winslet just put it, a water person. This is due to the same mutations that cause me to be a biochemist. Im looking at you, PTEN.

50m underwater is utterly effortless for me and i honestly didnt think i was unusual until recently - i thought it was just a result of growing up in Tampa.

The thing is, i see the new rules going into place at the pool and have been told the reasoning and its left me shaken. Im being told that im suicidal and that im leading other people to drown by not falling in line with the new total safety consciousness that seems to be the new national craze. Its like Gen Z just wants to live inside a box huddling in fear that takes ever increasing doses of psych drugs to treat.

But on the other hand, Im left wondering by their words if im broken or just old and not "with it" anymore. It would be helpful to note here that i dont believe in acceptance of my condition - to me, that is a cloudcuckooland, far left idea that will only eat civilization alive and in fact was designed to. Ive been looking for a cure for all my life, the problem is i think i might actually die if i manage to switch off the flow of HIF. I have so much of this crap floating around my system that i have the heart rate characteristics of T. truncatus and the like. ... cetaceans.... if i fuck with that ill most likely have some kind of tachycardic arrhythmia.
 
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J Campbell

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
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So 50 meters underwater is easy ... you mean a 50 meter pool dynamic or a 50 meter deep dive?
 
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Sorandril

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So 50 meters underwater is easy ... you mean a 50 meter pool dynamic or a 50 meter deep dive?
A pool dynamic. Ordinary people have called me “Flipper” for this because I do this without even pushing myself. I havent been anywhere lately where I could try the latter let alone safely. To compound matters, I moved to Colorado and Am already missing the likes of Cali and Florida. If you’re wondering why I didn’t try Cali,

oh yes: longest recorded static: 6:53
Unrecorded: did you know contractions stop and then start again?

however, I’m being told that I’m endangering others lives by doing this. They’re already editing Kate Winslets recent Collider interview to make it seem like she can’t do what she originally said she did. What’s going on? Photo included for posterity. And man I wish she wasn’t taken...
4ACAE256-8EC9-42E1-BCBB-C629FD151EE8.png
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
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A pool dynamic. Ordinary people have called me “Flipper” for this because I do this without even pushing myself. I havent been anywhere lately where I could try the latter let alone safely. To compound matters, I moved to Colorado and Am already missing the likes of Cali and Florida. If you’re wondering why I didn’t try Cali,

oh yes: longest recorded static: 6:53
Unrecorded: did you know contractions stop and then start again?

however, I’m being told that I’m endangering others lives by doing this. They’re already editing Kate Winslets recent Collider interview to make it seem like she can’t do what she originally said she did. What’s going on? Photo included for posterity. And man I wish she wasn’t taken...
View attachment 56736
P.s. that was dry.
 

cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
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Welcome to the world of over-reaction. Pool people (and others) who know nothing about freediving are going way overboard trying to protect their pool users (and themselves) from the unlikely consequences of doing something stupid. You know that, but recognize that the overreaction is caused by people doing something stupid that got them killed. Unfortunately, its not that hard to get in trouble if you do breatholding underwater wrong. Also recognize that you are somewhat gifted in the breathhold area. For lots of people who are not, trying to follow you might get them in trouble.

Blackouts happen. I've had to play rescue diver for several open water BOs. Not fun.

Time for you to get some knowledge on how and why to do breatholding safely. Enjoy the process.
 

J Campbell

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
599
182
148
66
Welcome to the world of over-reaction. Pool people (and others) who know nothing about freediving are going way overboard trying to protect their pool users (and themselves) from the unlikely consequences of doing something stupid. You know that, but recognize that the overreaction is caused by people doing something stupid that got them killed. Unfortunately, its not that hard to get in trouble if you do breatholding underwater wrong. Also recognize that you are somewhat gifted in the breathhold area. For lots of people who are not, trying to follow you might get them in trouble.

Blackouts happen. I've had to play rescue diver for several open water BOs. Not fun.

Time for you to get some knowledge on how and why to do breatholding safely. Enjoy the process.
This over reaction, nanny-state attitude of pool managers is grossly unfair to trained freedivers who just want to do some practicing. As a group we need to form a lobbying effort to force pools to allow us to practice. Maybe we should create some safety guidelines for the managers to follow. They need education on how freediving can be safe when done right. They allow diving boards and people get hurt on them all the time. They are discriminating against us because they are totally ignorant on the subject of freediving. Our rights are being curtailed, maybe a lawsuit would get their attention.
 
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7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
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How well does it usually go if an individual or club approaches a pool facility staff with an explanation and request for permission to do dynamics? I can understand a business not wanting to take the liability of a bunch of untrained armatures. Perhaps that is what it takes, designated trained oversight or a measure of qualification. I am the only one that does DNF at my local pool and haven't made enough bubbles to worry the lifeguards. It would be a very positive outcome if people and pool facilities were interested in the form and promoted it through proper training and lack of incidents. If someone is going to press limits in the pool it must be coordinated, you can't expect them to be cool when someone is gasping let alone writhing in the pool at a random occurrence.
 

J Campbell

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
599
182
148
66
How well does it usually go if an individual or club approaches a pool facility staff with an explanation and request for permission to do dynamics? I can understand a business not wanting to take the liability of a bunch of untrained armatures. Perhaps that is what it takes, designated trained oversight or a measure of qualification. I am the only one that does DNF at my local pool and haven't made enough bubbles to worry the lifeguards. It would be a very positive outcome if people and pool facilities were interested in the form and promoted it through proper training and lack of incidents. If someone is going to press limits in the pool it must be coordinated, you can't expect them to be cool when someone is gasping let alone writhing in the pool at a random occurrence.
I understand the pool management has a concern about liability and they want to avoid inexperienced people getting in trouble. And I don’t expect them to be personal lifeguard to freedivers. But the solution is not to just ban everything underwater. It's a pool! Some people should be allowed to enjoy underwater activities. With proper information they should be able to formulate fair rules about who can practice freediving.

Here is my experience. I've been doing breath holds and dynamics since my pool opened in 1988, before I even heard of freediving. No one cared or bothered me. A couple of guards even spotted me on dynamics. Then a year ago I was told by the new manager to stop the breath holds and underwater swims. I tried to plead my case, pointing out that I was a certified freediver and really knew what I was doing and I was being safe. She wasn't having any of it. Her response was that people have died in pools doing what I was doing, end of story. She was unable to listen or understand that it can be done safely with proper training and supervision. She said "but you can pass out at any time without warning". I tried to explain that for a trained diver that would never happen if they are following safe diving techniques. And even if a trained diver does pass out he would be revived by his trained buddy with no harm done. But of course, she knew better, after all she was a Professional Lifeguard!

The rule at my pool is "no prolonged breath holds and no underwater swimming". I asked her what a "prolonged" breath hold was and she didn't have a real answer - she just said "don't hold your breath at all" - so she basically pulled that rule out of her ass right then and there. I pointed out that swim teams and other water athletes often do 25 yard underwater swims as part of their workout. Her response was "NO underwater swimming AT ALL". She said she would even stop the Masters swimmers in their workouts if she caught them underwater!

All this angered me, so I contacted my County Council representative to complain. She seemed very helpful and supportive at first and said she would set up a meeting with me, herself, and the pool management. I waited awhile for her to call back but she never did. So I tried to reach her again and left messages. But no answer back from her. Well, a month later the same lifeguard told me that the Council Representative had a phone meeting with her and they decided that freediving would not be allowed. I was supposed to be included in that meeting! I'm the one who requested the meeting! They shut me out!

So I didn’t get to present my point of view and for now I just sneak the underwater stuff when friendly lifeguards are on duty. I don’t really think I should have to, I’ve been thinking about getting a lawyer to press this issue. A lawsuit might wake them up and force them to deal with the situation. They are there to serve the public, ALL of the public. To shut out one group is a form of discrimination.
 
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7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
129
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I totally agree with you, sometimes people watch a youtube video and plug their ears to reason and compromise. Opportunity discrimination can be a hard battle and the rules are often a knee jerk reaction to an isolated incident. But as we can see this year new rules are very discriminatory and not always about what is reasonable but what will appease public fears and ignorance. How might you pursue this issue if it comes up again, doesn't sound like the county representative handled the situation appropriately?
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
16
23
40
Welcome to the world of over-reaction. Pool people (and others) who know nothing about freediving are going way overboard trying to protect their pool users (and themselves) from the unlikely consequences of doing something stupid. You know that, but recognize that the overreaction is caused by people doing something stupid that got them killed. Unfortunately, its not that hard to get in trouble if you do breatholding underwater wrong. Also recognize that you are somewhat gifted in the breathhold area. For lots of people who are not, trying to follow you might get them in trouble.

Blackouts happen. I've had to play rescue diver for several open water BOs. Not fun.

Time for you to get some knowledge on how and why to do breatholding safely. Enjoy the process.

I know all about the desaturation curve. I’m a biochemist. That’s why I had doubts about my mental stability. I also have autism which is scientifically related to the fact that I’m pretty much a dolphin. (For example see PTEN- mutation and what that does to HIF) And it also causes attraction to the water due to the whole HIF1A-PDE5-iNos axis. Which in Colorado causes me to giggle at the cold. And causes me to massively enjoy breath holding....

if I can find a way to work in Florida instead of Colorado I’d love to go to a class... I really intend on moving down there because I already miss the water too much.

And I could also use a massive reduction in the amount of nickel in my environment. Yep. Exactly what you think. Told you guys what I was...
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
16
23
40
I understand the pool management has a concern about liability and they want to avoid inexperienced people getting in trouble. And I don’t expect them to be personal lifeguard to freedivers. But the solution is not to just ban everything underwater. It's a pool! Some people should be allowed to enjoy underwater activities. With proper information they should be able to formulate fair rules about who can practice freediving.

Here is my experience. I've been doing breath holds and dynamics since my pool opened in 1988, before I even heard of freediving. No one cared or bothered me. A couple of guards even spotted me on dynamics. Then a year ago I was told by the new manager to stop the breath holds and underwater swims. I tried to plead my case, pointing out that I was a certified freediver and really knew what I was doing and I was being safe. She wasn't having any of it. Her response was that people have died in pools doing what I was doing, end of story. She was unable to listen or understand that it can be done safely with proper training and supervision. She said "but you can pass out at any time without warning". I tried to explain that for a trained diver that would never happen if they are following safe diving techniques. And even if a trained diver does pass out he would be revived by his trained buddy with no harm done. But of course, she knew better, after all she was a Professional Lifeguard!

The rule at my pool is "no prolonged breath holds and no underwater swimming". I asked her what a "prolonged" breath hold was and she didn't have a real answer - she just said "don't hold your breath at all" - so she basically pulled that rule out of her ass right then and there. I pointed out that swim teams and other water athletes often do 25 yard underwater swims as part of their workout. Her response was "NO underwater swimming AT ALL". She said she would even stop the Masters swimmers in their workouts if she caught them underwater!

All this angered me, so I contacted my County Council representative to complain. She seemed very helpful and supportive at first and said she would set up a meeting with me, herself, and the pool management. I waited awhile for her to call back but she never did. So I tried to reach her again and left messages. But no answer back from her. Well, a month later the same lifeguard told me that the Council Representative had a phone meeting with her and they decided that freediving would not be allowed. I was supposed to be included in that meeting! I'm the one who requested the meeting! They shut me out!

So I didn’t get to present my point of view and for now I just sneak the underwater stuff when friendly lifeguards are on duty. I don’t really think I should have to, I’ve been thinking about getting a lawyer to press this issue. A lawsuit might wake them up and force them to deal with the situation. They are there to serve the public, ALL of the public. To shut out one group is a form of discrimination.
Yep, this is the “new normal” I’m seeing. In general our children are being taught that limits are for safety and not to be pushed. I’ve been told by some of these new millennials that I’m self centered and endangering people for exercising my natural capabilities or even speak of them. No underwater swimming is ridiculous yet many younger people agree with this kind of mentality.

I wouldn’t want to engage HIF if I were on that many psych meds as them either, come to think of it.

That’s part of what’s made me wonder if I’m just old and out of date and crazy on top of that.
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
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Yep, this is the “new normal” I’m seeing. In general our children are being taught that limits are for safety and not to be pushed. I’ve been told by some of these new millennials that I’m self centered and endangering people for exercising my natural capabilities or even speak of them. No underwater swimming is ridiculous yet many younger people agree with this kind of mentality.

I wouldn’t want to engage HIF if I were on that many psych meds as them either, come to think of it.

That’s part of what’s made me wonder if I’m just old and out of date and crazy on top of that.


This new consciousness is being pushed at all levels of swimming, even by people such as Michael Phelps. Are we in the wrong here?
 

Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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Seriously, that’s the kind of article that makes me wonder if I need extensive counseling. Everyone seems to be for this culture change and I’m just too old to understand any of it.
 

7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
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So what is the point of demonizing breath holding in the pool when hyperventilating is identified as the culprit. If the author cared more about swimmers than criticizing breath holding the article would have been about promoting safe practices. Is she really trying to convince us that tots are out there hyperventilating and trying to swim over 50m underwater during training because their coaches are pushing them too hard.
 
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Sorandril

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Apparently so. The other thing that makes me question my sanity is the case of Mercedes Maidana, who claims breath holding and a concussion damaged her brain and gave her PTSD because she was addicted to aquatic thrills.
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
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Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
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It’s getting worse from what I’m reading. Underwater swimming is being condemned as too risky at any rate and an “extreme sport”. USA Swimming is now teaching people to immediately blow out everything and come back up.

it really is becoming a flat earth society as the article in this site feared a few years ago
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
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It’s getting worse from what I’m reading. Underwater swimming is being condemned as too risky at any rate and an “extreme sport”. USA Swimming is now teaching people to immediately blow out everything and come back up.

it really is becoming a flat earth society as the article in this site feared a few years ago

still. I’m not adverse to a buddy. Especially one who is a blue eyed brunette that sometimes answers to “Brill”. :p
 
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