How do you pass the Winter?

by the way, I am curious if people like to see some hunting pictures? I have loads of nice pictures (with some nice throphies) but I'm afraid of taking bad respnse. (as some of them show blood, etc...)

Memo-
Hopefully I will have some pics for you next weekend. My buddy just started an outfitting service and they need video footage of a boar taken by bow. I got the call to grab my bow and come on down next weekend. They have russian boar and feral hogs on over 7000 acres of land near here. A 740lb and 900lb boar were taken in the past two weeks! I can't wait...they are impressive animals to say the least.

Rig-
Thanks for defending us as outdoorsman. When is the last time anyone heard of PETA or any other anti-huniting outfit put any money towards conservation or resource management? The very people that these guys are chastizing(us), are the ones working for the future of these animals and their respective ecosystems. It really pisses me off when I get stink-eye for harvesting an animal from the lady wearing $400 ostrich skin shoes, sitting in her calfskin trimmed BMW, while stuffing her face with a genetically engineered, steroid ridden Big Mac. People like this need to open their eyes...oh and I'll personally sponsor their tour to a local slaughterhouse.

I digress...back to the original post: Our winters are pretty mild(although it is 23F and sleeting right now), though the water can get quite chilly...so our diving is cut back a bit. We try to do a bit of hunting...deer, duck..etc. The indoor climbing wall gets a workout...as does the local pool hall. We play a little golf and tennis...drink a few beers...throw some darts....and engage in heated bouts of RO-SHAM-BO. Aside from that, not a whole lot...most of this winter has been spent in front of the computer finishing my thesis.

Sorry for the rambling...it's something else I do in the winter-
Matt

I'm waiting for the pictures Matt, and those numbers are really impressive! We have only european wild boar in turkey but believe me they can be really really nice sized.

Don't worry- There will be a .44 on my hip and the cameraman has a 12 ga. slug gun chock full af 3.5" magnums. There will be another cameraman and guide across the way for extra back-up. Should be a good time. We are hunting out of a ground blind rather than a tree-stand so it should be a bit interesting. Up close and personal, hopefully we will get some good footage and a nice hog for a pig roast with my mates.

Matt

I will definitely be letting the half-tonner walk! We are hoping for something in the 250-400lb range. I don't want to end up on one of these "caught on tape" shows being run down by a half-ton hog.....no thanks

Firstly I want to say that I'm not condemming you guys for hunting. I am aware of the concept of culling, and have to agree with it. if you are going to kill an animal, you may as well make some money for consevation out of it. as for the animal trauma involved, i dont think you get much more traumatic than natural methods, like an elk getting ripped to shreds by a pack of wolves, so a bullet is a far kinder alternative.

I just dont think that you are being scincere when you say that the only difference between hunting fish and wolves is the fact that we have watched a few disney movies, and that you "hunters" are not affected by this emotional point of view. if you scincerely believe this then you can say that you would hunt something like a dolphin if it were legal, if you dont then dont belittle us for having emotional limitaions that are different to the emotional limitaions of your own.


as for selling the pelts, i dont think its a good idea. i know you guys are all reasonable, and know when enough is enough. the problem is that the guys who buy pelts from you also buy them from poachers who make it their bussiness to nail every animal they come accross.

I see your point in regards to the poaching Griff, however because someone else does something wrong dosn't mean that we should stop doing something right. If we hunt for population control, we should make every attempt to put the animal to as much use as possible. Also maybe poaching isn't as big here right now as you've seen in SA. Although it does certianly continue, and has been a problem at times.

As far as the difference between hunting a fish and anything else, there is no difference. Killing something for a reason, be it food, pelt or population control is still killing something. I would however be lying if I said it didn't affect me though! I used to hunt (as I said in a previous post) 'coons and wild dog packs. However now, I don't do it anymore. The dog packs, originating from city people who would dump their puppies "into the wild" were dangerous to people and livestock, but it was too much like shooting "laddie" for me. I don't know why anyone would want to hunt dolphin, but again, there is no difference aside from an emotional "its soo cute!" attachment. As I've said, I realize that this does affect people, myself included! however wearing/selling fur is no different than a leather jacket, belt, shoes, seats in your car, couch ect. Or as Matt said, eating a hamburger.

Ok, I'm done with that subject I think!!

As far as me in the winter, UWHockey, and I still freedive. Gonna try it under the ice on Saturday. Can't spearfish here, but I would if I could!

Aaron

BTW, I'm really liking how civil everyone's been on this thread! Most times I'd feel I had to steer clear of any thread that involves any type of political/emotional discussion.

BTW, I'm really liking how civil everyone's been on this thread! Most times I'd feel I had to steer clear of any thread that involves any type of political/emotional discussion.

Click to expand...

thats exactly what I'm thinking. This is why I am hesitant to post more huning photos.

Originally posted by Griff

I just dont think that you are being scincere when you say that the only difference between hunting fish and wolves is the fact that we have watched a few disney movies, and that you "hunters" are not affected by this emotional point of view.

Click to expand...

I hope I didn't misrepresent myself and the others earlier...hunting IS an emotional activity. If there were no emotion involved it would merely be called "killing." It wouldn't be a sport/hobby/pasttime...it would be an task. And the only people that would hunt would be those who are getting paid to do so, or those who must hunt to survive. Even then I would still find it hard to believe that it didn't affect them emotionally on some level.

You only have to look at various primitive cultures for evidence of this. Most animal harvests are followed by a celebration of the kill, and a celebration of the animal's life. Therein lies a deep respect/admiration of the quarry. A lot of these same traits are still embedded deep within us...for those of us who have had a chance to feel this, it is a very special experience. Whether you are standing over your first deer taken by bow, or you are on the deck staring in awe at your first yellowfin tuna...it is a feeling of accomplishment, respect, and admiration...it is this intrinsic emotional response that makes hunting so rewarding. It is this very same response that drives hunters to push for the conservation and intelligent management of these species and their ecosystems for which they hold in such high esteem.

So I apologize if we somehow made hunting seem like a sterile, unemotional task...it most certainly is not. I do understand your point on hunting certain species...there are certain animals I will not hunt because I would find it hard to look through the sights and pull the trigger. It's not to say that I am against the hunting of these creatures at all...I merely choose not to do it. I don't typically hunt the apex predators, there is too much of a kinship there....plus, the vegetarians just taste better! I wouldn't hunt a lion just as I wouldn't go out spearing sharks....and I wouldn't shoot a primate, just as I wouldn't pull out a tuna gun and go looking for Flipper or Free Willy. Most of those are illegal to shoot....but I hope everyone is following what I'm saying.

Again....the cold weather is a catalyst for my ramblings...29F and raining...
-Matt

we pass the winter by waiting for a break in the cold fronts and shooting wahoo and tuna...

Thanks rig....no really....you are killing me.

I do almost the same thing. I wait for the sleet to stop....don my 5mm....go sit in the boat(on it's traile in the backyard), open a can of TUNA with my dive knife and yell, "WAHOO." It's almost like being there...really.

Glad somebody's getting out there....Shoot a nice YF and send us some pics.

Nice pic. amphibious, what are those birds? looks like female phesant or member of francolin family?

I bet there are to much prey, otherwise it would be hard to hunt those with that small gun

Interesting choice of wepon... Bet you find that rabbit while its sleeping..

looks like a cover shot for Soldier of Fortune!

good sentiments guys. i think that the people who are totally against hunting havent given it enough thought.

Aaron, i've heard of the wild dog prolem in egypt, i think. you cant go jogging in some areas because these packs of dogs literally hunt you down. pretty insane!

Amphibious, Elma's gonna be pissed that you got Bugs before he did.

winter diving for us is the best all year. weather is calmer, and we get the sardine run (although the little buggers didnt show up last year)

While I am not against hunting, I would like to offer an alternative.

Carry the weapon for protection but carry a camera for shooting.

While I still "hunt", I stopped killing a few years ago. I used to fish for the fun of financial gain (the cash). One day I hooked this marlin and brought to the side of the boat and just looked at it.... I slacked the line and let it go. I just couldn't do it again. I couldn't gaff it, hit it, and drag it on board. And I haven't done it since. That was August of 1999. I have killed far too many marlin, and no ammount of money can repay the damage I have done. I did it for the money, and I concidered it justified. I used to look at this wall of pictures in the middle of town called "Granders" and I wanted my photo on that wall with a Pacific Blue Marlin weighing over 1000 LBS. I saw that wall earlier this evening and I was proud that my picture is NOT there. This is my life now and I am happy this way.

I am not against hunting and fishing in general, but there are ways that hunting and fishing is performed that I am against. Specifically spearing while on scuba, especially for profit. Even the local spearfishing shop is against this form or fishing. They (the shop) are among the leaders trying to get this form of spearfishing banned. I think hunting for food in your freezer is fine, the problem is when hunting removes the population of a species in a certain area. The recovery is incredibly slow in comparison to the swift speed of the damage.

I also agree with hunting for population control. Here in Hawaii a grouper was introduced to the waters (human introduction) as a food source about 40 years ago. The Peacock Grouper is no longer hunted due to siguatera toxin, and this fish is becoming a pest. While I will not hunt them, I will not be complaining if others do the job.

To come full circle on my original point of hunting with a camera...
One of the most intriguing fish behaviors I have witnessed is the combined hunting behaviors of the Peacock Grouper and the Moray eels. The eel hunts during the day under the cover of the grouper, and when the eel dives into a hole the grouper rushes to the other exit of the hole to see what fish gets flushed out in the hope of a meal. The flushed out fish then sees the grouper and darts back into the hole (usually the same hole), giving the eel a chance at a daytime meal.
If I didn't shoot underwater video, I would have never realized this symbiotic relationship between these two very different species.

So, to answer the original question of this thread, "what do I do to pass the winter", I edit shallow water video footage of aquatic behaviors. The adrenline rush is the same every time I see a great video.

"Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after". Henry David Thoreau

Matthew J D'Avella
Kona Hawaii

Originally posted by LioKai
I am not against hunting and fishing in general, but there are ways that hunting and fishing is performed that I am against. Specifically spearing while on scuba...
Matthew J D'Avella
Kona Hawaii [/B]

Click to expand...

Matthew, I suggest that you carefully examine your beliefs. While I do agree that spearing on scuba is detrimental on shallow coral reefs present in place such as Hawaii or Florida, it definaly has a place and time. Point in case is the deep oil rigs of the Gulf of Mexico. Hunting on scuba here is more dangerous than freediving will ever be, the fish are large and the waters deep. To say these daredevils have no right to do what they do is absurd. Be careful of what you wish for, its the old "foot in the door" technique. First they ban hunting on scuba, all that does is set precidents for banning spearing all together....

Im glad you found a pasttime that suits you, but please dont try to anylize mine.

Originally posted by rigdvr
First they ban hunting on scuba, all that does is set precidents for banning spearing all together....

Click to expand...

It's unfortunate that we have to constantly be wary of this slippery slope. Opposing sides never want to give an inch because they think it will lead to inevitable defeat, when, in truth, the most appropriate answer usually lies between the two extremes.

To be fair, Rig. [With the exception of his personal reason for no longer spearfishing], I think that Matthew's main point-of-concern was that of a conservationist (not a bunny hugger ). As for the scuba, my opinion varies. On the one hand, everyone is entitled to their catch limit. On the other, scuba hunters aren't really what I would consider a 'hunter'. It was mentioned earlier (and I agree whole-heartedly) that hunting is (and should be) an emotional experience. Scuba harvesting reminds me of going hunting at a game farm. I think it depends on the odds of success and skill level needed. One could argue that commercial fisherman are hunters too. There are, undoubtedly, skills they must learn, and they don't take more than their :hmm limit.

That said, I have never hunted an oil rig, and have no idea what kind of skill level would be required to land a fish. Hunting on scuba, where I live, would be ridiculously unfair and tantamount to harvesting. Furthermore, maybe if scuba and freediving regs weren't lumped together, the Wisconsin DNR would allow freedivers to hunt game fish, since there are so few of us (comparitively).

But from your explanation, it sounds like those who use scuba out on those oil rigs really are 'hunting', so, of course, my opinion would be different for that situation.

I think it unwise to simply say I don't like such-n-such kind of hunting. Every situation is different. Once again, for me, it's a question of requiring skill to maximize success. If a newbie can land fish just as easily as a veteran, is it really hunting? What's the point, if the challenge isn't any greater than driving to the grocery store . Skill improvement is one of the largest appeals of spearfishing (or any kind of hunting).

Putting aside the debate over hunting practices, proper wildlife management (ie. conservation) is something that we can all agree on.

Ted

BTW, I mostly sit on my ass during the winter months and sulk (and don't start in on me missing hockey, Jon. Just be content that you'll be that much better than I, next time I make it.)

I seem to recall you missing a few days of spearfishing as well there Ted.

On another list, George Irvine discussed his approach to spearfishing at 280’ on trimix. He uses a power head to kill the grouper as quickly as possible. He was the first one to come out and say that it wasn’t “hunting” and that he was just there to get the fish. Using scuba, especially mixed gas and a power head on the end of the gun, was just a way to get the fish he wanted to eat with the least amount of risk to him and his buddies.

Spearfishing around here is a joke on scuba, but a little bit of a challenge while Freediving. Those Europeans are spearing fish in some amazing depths, so it can be done. Not having actually dove the rigs I can’t testify to the difficulty involved- so I won’t.

What I could see, instead of the “slippery slope” argument, is a compromise. Something along the lines of allowing more types of fish to be speared IF it was done only while Freediving. I just happened to talk to a game warden in Wisconsin last week about this. He, and another game warden, have approached the state with a proposal to spear salmon, or trout, in Lake Michigan if it was limited to Freediving. It would be really hard to do, but that’s what would make it so great! You know that you don’t have that great a shot of getting anything, but at least your now allowed to try- which is something that you couldn’t do before- a compromise.

Jon

We freedive for inshore fish like cabrilla and triggerfish and corvina. The wind in the winter down here can get crazy in 15 minutes.

GTB
www.gonetobaja.com