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How many strokes in Din Without Fins

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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X-Fins

www.xfins.es
Dec 28, 2004
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Hi, one of the most dificult technic is the sub acuatic swiming without fins. I,m trying to improve my technique. My best results are swimming very slow looking for reduce the movements instead of looking for velocity.

How many strokes you need to do 25 or 50 mts ??

Bye and regards.

pd: someone know the Spanish record??

someone know where are a good underwater video??
 

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
200
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I think the best divers take 3-5 strokes for 25m.

Here's a video of Stig's world record.

Good discussion on the topic can be found in this older thread.
 

watts

small wins
Jun 27, 2004
548
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Ive been working on this a bit lately and have it down to 3.5 or 4 stokes for 25m I have not tryed it in a 50m pool for heaps. The first thing i would suggest for dynamic no fins is getting your weight right with either a neck weight or back weight or both. Experiment with gliding. Just do a really good kick off the wall hands out in front and see how far you go.With a good kick in a 25m pool this makes a big gain . You could also try lengths of the pool with only your arms or legs and work on improving them.
Cheers Nathan
 

neshamah

CFD Group
Jun 2, 2003
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El record hispano dices?

bueno que tenga entendido de mujeres

A girl call Rosibel did 105 meters without fin in cuba

Rosibel hizo 105 metros sin aletas en cuba

no esta registrado como record por ninguna federacion de freediver

but for me she has the record
 

X-Fins

www.xfins.es
Dec 28, 2004
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Hi everybody, thanks for your comments was very interesting. I,m doing 5-6 strokes for the initial 25 meters. I don,t use any weight but I feel i can improve my record using it. Unfortunatly in my pool no one practice apneas so, if I wear a weight in my kneck probably they call someone to pick up me to the psiquiatrich hospital !!! The pool watcher never believe me that the use of the weight can help to get best results, I can imagine the face of the other people who swim in this pool, jajaja

Bye and regards, Luis
 

neshamah

CFD Group
Jun 2, 2003
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if I wear a weight in my kneck probably they call someone to pick up me to the psiquiatrich hospital !
____________

Oh,,,, man you make me " Reir"

saludos

Hablas espanol ? Luis sound like Ispanish?

5 - 6 stroke is great--
 

Veronika

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
215
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Hi,

How long does it take you guys to dive the 25m when trying to minimize the number of strokes ? And to you use the "calssic" breaststroke or do you combine it with a dolphin kick ?
I just tried it out and needed 3,5 strokes for 25m, but it took me about 45 seconds :duh. I can do it quite a bit faster when I don't use the whole gliding phase, but then it takes me approx. 7 strokes.

Veronika
 
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subaquaticus

Fond of the Red Sea
Oct 10, 2004
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11
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X-Fins said:
Hi, one of the most dificult technic is the sub acuatic swiming without fins. I,m trying to improve my technique. My best results are swimming very slow looking for reduce the movements instead of looking for velocity.

How many strokes you need to do 25 or 50 mts ??

Bye and regards.

pd: someone know the Spanish record??

someone know where are a good underwater video??

That is an excellent question !

Two years ago I bought in Paris an excellent revolutionary book written by an American about swimming....

The hardcore of the book was in particular the number of strokes ; he explained the tremendous successes of Popov with the little number of strokes he needed...

This American wrote many books on swimming, and also one on breast stroke...

I begin every freediving training with 200 m in surface breaststroke with minimal stroke number (4-5 per 25 m)...

I would like to improve my technique in subaquatic breaststroke : the delicate phase for me is to bring my arms forward...

You must come to Massy (close to Paris) on the 19th of March : there will be a female world record breaking attempt precisely in DNF by Sandra PIOVANACCI !
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
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Hi all
Today I managed 4 strokes/25 m without any neckweight. To me the most important thing has been to separate the arm and leg stroke and the glide after the LEG stroke.
Also pushing hard against the wall and gliding with hands in front makes it for me.
To Veronika: for me is 45 seconds also and around 40 with traditional breastroke
(i.e: simultaneous arm and leg stroke) at slow pase and around 35 doing the sprinting
This brings out to me another question (this is "the-continuous-question-arising" sport hehe): I get to the same point with the same perceived effort (i.e: number of contractions) with whatever technique (traditional, sprint, gliding stroke) I use...
maybe because the effort vs time spended compromise is balanced in the 3 styles??
Any thoughts?? :)
To X-Fins:
As long as there is no AIDA branch at Spain, there is no DNF record stablished. All that is out there is CMAS (FEDAS local branch) Competitions held around summer...
and they don't go for DNF. Maybe we should start a virtual competition? X-D
My PB at training is 60 m no fins (I suck by the moment :) ) But I aim for 75 m this year. What are you aiming for, X-Fins? :)

Cheers!!

Oscar
 
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X-Fins

www.xfins.es
Dec 28, 2004
90
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Hi everybody !!!

Vero: I,m not sure about how many time spent but may be it´s 35 sec. I promise you check with Mr clock. I.m combine classic breakstroke kick and dolphin and sometimes the dolphin kick appear very easily, unconciously, instead off the classic !!!. The moment when I use the classic kick, mainly, it´s when I recover the arms from the front to the cheast (trying to compensate the movement of the arms ahead ???). While I push mi hands backward I use the dophin kick (one or two). It,s very difficult to explain swimming .... because it´s based in the sensations of the moment.

Oscar: I,m doing 50 mts after two or three attempts. I,m training alone so i'm need to be very carefully. For the moment you are the record owner !!!

Subaquiaticus: for me the most difficult and technical style it,s breakstroke. In the others swim styles you can replace some technical lack for strong. In breakstroke that doesn't work. I,m a very bad breakstroke swimer.

This discussion remember me the times when we get the bottom of the sea As Soon As Posible, trying to save time instead Oxigen.

Ok, thanks and regards.

pd: when i,m gliding i need to restart the movementes because i,m tend to get the surface, so maybe with a little weigh i will improve my efficiency
 
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ADR

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2004
655
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I'm glad we a freedivers as......

" How many strokes in Din Without Fins".....has a whole other meaning for the DIR scuba crowd! :duh

Andy
 

Veronika

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
215
25
118
rofl
Well actually, if DIR, we would have to ask "how many kick cycles exactly are the right solution to a 25m DNF dive" ;) .

Veronika
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
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Well Oscar I've mailed Luis Manuel Santos about a nice little competition in Spain, he was on the AIDA-international list as the contactperson.

But maybe you can become the AIDA chairman in Spain?
I think that spain has nice waters and setting for a cool competition.
And CMAS does not have to be a problem, like shown in Germany. In Germany CMAS is doing the recrenational Freediving, and AIDA the competition part. CMAS divers are allowed to participate, and are happy to provide support and safety.
So CMAS and AIDA can go hand in hand :)

About the question, which is more efficient: fast or slow? I think fast is better if one cannot relax the musle very quickly and you have the particular muscle built. If you do have the right muscle builtup, can relax quickly and have a long static choose to have more glide but avoid more than 80% effort when performing a stroke.

I wonder if someone understands my troubled English ;)

Carlos.
 

subaquaticus

Fond of the Red Sea
Oct 10, 2004
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Kars said:
Well Oscar I've mailed Luis Manuel Santos about a nice little competition in Spain, he was on the AIDA-international list as the contactperson.

But maybe you can become the AIDA chairman in Spain?
I think that spain has nice waters and setting for a cool competition.
And CMAS does not have to be a problem, like shown in Germany. In Germany CMAS is doing the recrenational Freediving, and AIDA the competition part. CMAS divers are allowed to participate, and are happy to provide support and safety.
So CMAS and AIDA can go hand in hand :)

About the question, which is more efficient: fast or slow? I think fast is better if one cannot relax the musle very quickly and you have the particular muscle built. If you do have the right muscle builtup, can relax quickly and have a long static choose to have more glide but avoid more than 80% effort when performing a stroke.

I wonder if someone understands my troubled English ;)

Carlos.

very interesting post... but I am not sure to understand everything in it...

I downloaded two days ago a highly interesting video about a 100 m in DNF in Hungary... was it you ?

Tomorrow I am doing a training and I will try to copy what I saw on this video... In particular I was struck by the long time spent with the arms on the thighs...

And don't forget to come to Massy on the 19th of March to encourage our new young mermaid Sandra PIOVANACCI :girlie trying to break the female world record in DNF...
 

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
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My 100m video is mentioned in this tread:

This is Kars 100m video: http://members.home.nl/kars//KARS_0...004_DNF100M.wmv

Here are my comments to it:

The preparation was far from ideal when I arrived at Job’s house after cycling for 35minutes at a speed of 28KM on my, new second hand, racing bike. After a few minutes Jurgen also arrived and we speeded to the 25m pool. Job had brought along his video camera to tape my attempt. At the pool we quickly changed and I did some stretching. Job gave me 10 minutes to prepare, in a for me new method. He told me that I should hold my breath with empty lungs until the first urge to breathe, then breath out and in and out and do it again. During the breath-holds I thought of the swimming technique and the suns’ power which I collected about an hour ago. After five minutes of laying on a towel on the tiled bench practicing breath-hold I got slowly up for a last minute toilet visit. When I came back I had only three minutes left for the ‘official top’. I sat down on the edge, bending my head forward down into the water putting my cap on. As my head touched the water I felt much of the tension leaving me as I turned inside myself. I put on my 2,5KG neckweight, and got in position. I’m not used to camera’s and waved and looked in the camera with a short shy smile.

Now only one minute thirty was left, so I tried to breath easily and to relax. I came out a little late, as I packed about fifteen times and went under fifteen seconds after official top.

Hardly thirty minutes after my 16KM cycle race to Job’s home I went under and pushed myself off. This time I’ve not practiced any lane in advance, it had to be good right from the start. I usually like to swim some practice lanes to find back the right stoke and rhythm. So I swam and thought of my strokes as I went along. In the first meters I came out a bit too deep, and I had to make a broad stroke. And compensate with the legs as well. The first turning fitted nicely and I again pushed myself off. Coming in the middle of the pool where the edge of the moving floor is , I came out to deep again. I skimped on the floor loosing much speed, and rhythm. After that I floated up a bit I had again to compensate that. The turn went nice again, and this time the push was better as I had more ground clearance. I felt I had swam the first two lanes to slow, so revved up the tempo. At seventyfive meters the turn was nice again and I remembered Bill’s advice not to look up, just swim. So I held the tempo and when I saw the T at the end I slowly got up. Took a few quick belly breaths and I felt ok, but kept on breathing to be sure and as a practice for the upcoming competition in Belgium.

Subaquaticus, Which part didn't you understand?

The 80% effort perhaps?
I mean one doesn't uses the maxium power in each stroke, but just about 80% of it.

I wish Sandra the best of luck and succes!

Carlos.
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
212
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Hey Kars, your English is more than OK...
I have several people in mind before me to be the AIDA chairman in Spain. I have not
the experience nor the freediving level or knowledge to represent the country, but..
I think you're right... we (spanish DB'ers) should do something to solve our no-AIDA-competitions problem. Maybe this summer we have a surprise for all of you :)
The fast/slow twitch may be the key to the compromise... I don't know.. at DF and DNF I always have the feeling that time is my only limiting factor independently of how fast I go... When I do DWF sprints I realise I have more in my body that that short sprint, so maybe I must hurry up and try to catch up with the standard (Stigs's and your video too) 25 seconds / 25 meter timing at DNF . I'm way slow compared to this times

Interesting thread!!

Cheers,

Oscar
 

subaquaticus

Fond of the Red Sea
Oct 10, 2004
557
11
108
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X-Fins said:
Hi, one of the most dificult technic is the sub acuatic swiming without fins. I,m trying to improve my technique. My best results are swimming very slow looking for reduce the movements instead of looking for velocity.

How many strokes you need to do 25 or 50 mts ??

Up to now I only managed doing 25 m in 5 strokes... I can do that with a 2 kg neckweight... but it is not enough ! I am going to buy an additional kg (2 ankle weights 2 X 0.500 kg)... and I hope I can manage doing 25 m in 4 strokes...

Somebody in another thread said he could manage a 25 m in 2 strokes !! unbelievable !!

I agree that it is better to swim as slow as possible in order to reduce drag... The critical moment seems to be after the arm stroke... being gliding perfectly neutral you nearly stop.... it is so delicate to push your hands before you ; you run the risk of swimming backwards !

My PB up to now is 65 m (done at last CIPA's Open) ; I did it with 2 kg at my neck ; I was very slow and relaxed till 50 m (it was a 50 m mool) but after the turn, instead of remaining cool and relax, I accelerated...

I feel I can do over 70 m (why not 75 m ?) at the next comp in Marseille... First thing to do : 2 additional ankle weights around my neck...

Then a bit of muscular training for the chest...

A little dry static training in my bed....
 
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