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How much suffering during training?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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LucB

New Member
Dec 7, 2017
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Hi all,

I started some dry apnea training about a month ago, in preparation for a freediving course I'll be taking in April. At first I couldn't hold my breath for more than 45 seconds, but last week I was able to do a 3:02 breath hold so whatever it is I'm doing seems to be working.

Since that PB attempt though, I find myself avoiding training. Truth be told, I don't find the training enjoyable at all, in fact it's rather hellish and I'm guessing it would be the stuff of nightmares for a lot of people. So the question is, how much suffering do you guys endure while training? Is there a "sweet spot" where there has to be some in order to progress, but not too much lest you get turned off the whole thing? Can apnea training actually be an enjoyable experience and still get results?

Thx
 
Sorry, but there is no answer beyond "find your own sweet spot". Play with your training and find it for yourself. You apparently pushed too hard with the 3:02, so don't go so far. Keep it comfortable for a while by not approaching your max. Start at maybe a series of 1:00 (10 or more), and work up as you feel comfortable. Or you can change to O2 and CO2 tables, and work your way up using them.
 
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Hi all,


Since that PB attempt though, I find myself avoiding training. Truth be told, I don't find the training enjoyable at all, in fact it's rather hellish

Thx

This is a sign of classic over training. after a period of training your body will need rest, and in order to ensure that you do get the rest you need your subconscious can make you dislike your training. Over training usually occurs right after a big improvement. All the work you did culminated in a performance and now you need a break. If you just stop training for a bit, maybe 2-3 weeks you'll feel much better and be able to push yourself again. if you keep training while overtrained you will hammer in the negative feelings for it and create a pattern that training=suffering. I struggled with that during my first year (I pushed through and didn't take a break) and it is still affecting me 4 years later.. I can't do static training because of the negative pattern I created around that type of training.
 
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All the work you did culminated in a performance and now you need a break. If you just stop training for a bit, maybe 2-3 weeks you'll feel much better and be able to push yourself again.

I'm good with that! Lol. What I'm worried about with taking a break is, how much of my gains will I lose? How quickly does one tend to lose their CO2 tolerance?
 
Don't torture yourself. It's a mental sport. Just like you have to learn your body's limits, you also have to understand your mind's. Being a good freediver requires practicing self love and self compassion. It's what's going to arbitrate the difference between pushing yourself a little further in a healthy way, and pushing your self over the line in a way that's going to hurt you and your success in the sport.

Sure, you can "power through" once our twice, but at a huge cost, as you've experienced. To make sustainable gains training can not be viewed in the mind as "suffering". Step back. Take a break. Reframe. When you're ready, start your tables again, and don't push so hard that your subconscious rebels.
 
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As an aside, have you taken an apnea course? If you haven't, I'd highly suggest it. Good technique can get you right on top of 3:00 without much strain.
 
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"What I'm worried about with taking a break is, how much of my gains will I lose?"
You won't lose much at all. It's like riding a bicycle - once you've got the basics you never forget entirely. You'll be back up to speed in a session or two.
 
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I'm good with that! Lol. What I'm worried about with taking a break is, how much of my gains will I lose? How quickly does one tend to lose their CO2 tolerance?

The way CO2 training works is that there's a long term menatal benifit and a short term physical benefit.

On the long term proper CO2 training will increase your mental ability to handle the urge to breath. If you maintain te proper amount of rest and don't great negative feelings towards it you will not have significant losses in your mental abilities.

On short term, on the physical side of things the only difference that CO2 training can have is increased blood bicarbonate. This is the main buffer to increasing CO2 but it it metabolised by the kidneys very quickly, within 3-4 days after stopping training it goes back to normal levels. It's also comes back quite quickly and 2-3 sessions will get you back to where you were.

First of all the main benefits from CO2 training are mental and significant bicarbonate increases are only seen if you are doing insane CO2 training (2/3+minutes of contractions on each hold, almost everyday).

So don't be worried too much about losses, and don't get discouraged if you see some when you get back into it. The gains come back very quickly. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about training for a beginner course. They are designed for people who've never trained and it's not uncommon for someone to start the static session with a 00:45 breath hold and end with a 3:00+ one.
 
First of all the main benefits from CO2 training are mental and significant bicarbonate increases are only seen if you are doing insane CO2 training (2/3+minutes of contractions on each hold, almost everyday).
Can I conclude that you would have to be training seriously (2,3 minutes of contractions would be at least 4+ minutes breathold) before CO2 training has any physical benefits? Wonka tables seems the way to go then.
Taking into account that long periods of CO2 training are not always advisable it seems like a lot of hard work for little physical gain.
Am I missing something?



Sent from the abyss
 
Can I conclude that you would have to be training seriously (2,3 minutes of contractions would be at least 4+ minutes breathold) before CO2 training has any physical benefits? Wonka tables seems the way to go then.
Taking into account that long periods of CO2 training are not always advisable it seems like a lot of hard work for little physical gain.
Am I missing something?



Sent from the abyss

There's always a slight physical benefit (increased buffers = increased no-contractions time) but in order to achieve one that will last longer than a few days and is more significant you will have to push extremely hard. And yes, longer (80% or more) holds with small recovery or wonka tables are the way to go if you are doing serious CO2 apnea stuff, although I wouldn't recommend it for beginners as they need to work more on the mental side of things, and they're body isn't ready for that level of intensity either. The stimulus for adaptation isn't just high CO2, its also the %of time during the workout that you have high CO2

In the paper I wrote for my instructor course I discussed the use of anaerobic training as a bypass for conventional CO2 training. Doing high intensity exercise will keep your CO2 levels extremely high (higher than most can achieve with breath holds) for longer as well, as It will stay near peak levels for the whole workout. Something I experimented with was 5x20 burpees with 1 min break between each set. by the end I was about to throw up from CO2 but 2 days later my time until contractions on no warm up FRC dry static increased by 1:15. The disadvantage with this route is that it doesn't train tolerance to having contractions.

I don't advise long periods of CO2 either. If the intensity is quite low with 1-2 workouts per week maybe 4-6 weeks maximum before you get fed up.. If i'm really out of shape and need to train CO2 I do 7 days straight of short and very high intensity tables (STA and DYN) and then 1 week break before other training. By the end of that I could (I don't) push to blackout any time I want.
 
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A comment on the unpleasantness of training - think about this, holding your breath does not actually hurt, it's just an intense urge. Hitting your thumb with a hammer hurts. So, would your rather hold your breath for five more seconds, or have someone hit your thumb with a hammer? So the skill of breath holding is to calm yourself down and just accept the urge, go "into" the contractions, make them your friend. When you get to the point where you are struggling, say to yourself "five more seconds is not long, I can do that" - then do it. Then do it again. And again. After you get used to doing breath holds and learn to fully relax, they can be fun, a personal challenge. For me the first three/quarters of a breath hold are downright pleasant - kind of meditative. And like others said above, don't over train.
 
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