How to 'Flow' in Freediving?

[Kars]

How is the audio presentation? nice full and detailed?

Have you tried static with it?

I tried a friends in water headphone (earplugs) once but it wasn't all that great as it relied heavily on the earplug position and keeping the ear dry. Also the music was annoying he had put on it only fitness shit music, just 5 songs too...

 

[monkeyhatfork]

I almost did not get one because I read mixed reviews online and my sister got one and didnt like it(but she uses one of those stationary treadmil-style lap pools in her garage-lots of in water noise and turbulance) A guy at the pool had one and let me try it and I was hooked. I think the sound is very good but wonder if this varied from person to person depending on bone structure etc., the two pieces are small and strap onto the inside of the mask strap so no real drag and conducts through the bone near your temple, clean electronic music seems to work best, mushy distorted guitar stuff is the only thing that seems to come out a bit weeker, its built for swimming and is loudest the first few feet, if your drop to bottom of pool there is a very slight change in volume so I'm thinking they might compress allot and not work that well for deep dives-nice if they made a depth rated one. I don't really do straight statics- the closet thing is a set of 50's I do where I drop to the bottom after the 25 turn and lay there for a few minutes before continuing the return length and works great for that

 

[monkeyhatfork]

the brain and heart will change to music, faster or slower according to tempo so I figured slow ambient would be ideal it feels especially nice during glides

 

[Kars]

I'll ask him to borrow his gadget an have a go with some good ambient music at static.
I think I can also put some cool 8 minute hypnotic sounds program on it, since it has stereo. Another cool experiment. It would be cool to forget the contractions and slow the mind down to a stationary pace. Thanks for your reply Monkeythatfork!

 

[hteas]

Kars,
Don't judge the SwimP3 player by any of the other music units. The bone conducting makes the music so much better that it's amazing. Water getting in the ear, like with other units, doesn't happen, and I feel like I'm swimming through the music.

I'm deaf in my left inner ear from an old diving accident, and the quality of the sound is still so great that it feels to me like i'm swimming through it

The only down side (if it is one) is the music disappears when your head is above water. Your head needs to be fully submerged for the full effect. I usually use it only for dnf kicking only(alternating frog, dolfin, and flutter for 25 yd/m), which by nature is pretty slow and relaxed, and the right music definitely makes it flow

 

[noa]

Great thread that I just found and read through ! Achieving these states is mainly what freediving is for me. Thanks for all the contributions and for Kattie's knowledge.
Getting the brain into specific frequencies is also an important part to achieving this flow and music is most likely the easiest way to do it. No great research needed, it's so easy and direct to see how musical frequencies directly affect our mental state.
A famous example is Micheal Phelps keeping his headphones on until just before entering the pool before a race and the controversy it created in the Olympic Commity regarding "sound doping".
Another easy and direct way to switch on the right brain hemisphere is a pranayama technique called "chandra bedhana". To explain it simply, one inhales through the left nostril (blocking the right), and exhales through the right (blocking the left). This is one round. Repeat for at least a few minutes and add a short retention as you get more comfortable. This practice oxygenates the right hemisphere more bringing it to primarily function over the left.
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[Kattie]

Another easy and direct way to switch on the right brain hemisphere is a pranayama technique called "chandra bedhana". To explain it simply, one inhales through the left nostril (blocking the right), and exhales through the right (blocking the left). This is one round. Repeat for at least a few minutes and add a short retention as you get more comfortable. This practice oxygenates the right hemisphere more bringing it to primarily function over the left.
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Sounds interesting and if it works for you then great. I am afraid that biologically speaking it does not work like this though. The brain is oxynated by the blood (that's why freedivers hook coming back to the surface, to send the blood to the brain who gets oxynated thus reducing risks of BO) so the nostril you use does not change anything... air goes down the same tube on the way to the lungs.
I have also read that some yogi recommend certain positions that reduces the blood flow to the left limbs to allow more blood to reach the right emisphere. Again, these sound nice and may appear to work for some people but there is no biological grounding to that. The right emisphere controls the left part of the body and the left controls the right part but blood circulation has its own dynamic and and i am no expert in this yet reducing blood somewhere does not mean it gets pushed to specific parts of the brain .

In my view the best way to get the right emisphere to take control on a dive is to give your brain a task that the left side wont want to do. It's easier said than done. For me, focussing on the feeling of the water on my skin and how it flows on the different parts of my body seems to work. I imagine the water following the contour of my body as I move in the water.

I think that each diver has to find what works for him or her. There is no magic receipe. I guess we all have to try different things.

Please keep sharing what you do and your experiements!

 

[Kars]

I found that slowly breathing through my nose, and focussing in the air and the vibrations that it brings to the nose and other airways is a really nice and effective way to focus onto feelings and thus falling in flow

Maybe this could be a nice contribution the the English language: falling in flow

Kattie, maybe we could design a research flow project for the freediving community?
We don't need to wait for commissions or grands from foundations and sell the knowledge to them. Of cause we like to measure things, so some data protocol is needed. Maybe Johan Andersson(Zwedish researcher) would like to participate too. Ulf Dexter with his hypnotic skills would be nice too.

I'm sure we can come up with some interesting questions, that in effect would benefit society as a whole.

For instance I wonder how the better athletes manage to relax and perform well, despite the external pressure and the inner will to put out a great performance. What methods are used, what works for whom, why?

Other sports, like martial arts, would also be very interesting to ask about their flow experience and how they enter this though their primal brains are triggered by fear of life in a hostile environment. I know that 'getting over the fear' is a big part.

Fear is killing rational thought, and is a very strong (the strongest) overriding mental drive, I wonder how one can control and temper it's influence. Lot's of questions, maybe have a little brain-current going a list list our questions about flow (related) here so we get an idea where our needs are and what we want to know.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

ps Kattie are you going to the WC this year?

 

[Kattie]

Kars, I love the term "falling in flow" lets start using it!

I have started to develop a methodology to study what different freedivers (competitives and not competitives) consider a "good dive", how it feels and what preparation they do to get there.

I am refining a sampling strategy at the moment and I think it could be based on the ranking of apnea.cz (because it takes into account different federations) followed by snowballing which means people from the original sample sending it to other people based on particular characteristics for example get their coach to respond as well. I want the questionnaire to be really simple and avoid scientific jargon. I think that by having people to describe what they feel in a "good dive" we will be able to get some characteristics of what falling into flow may mean concretely and what different types of freediver do in their preparation to help them access the "good dive".

To make it work i would need collaborators in different countries and people willing to help translating the questionnaire and answers in other languages.

I am planning to be at the depth WC but not the pool ones. Hopefully the questionnaires would be followed by short interviews and these events would be a great place to do that.

Anyone who thinks that it is a good idea and would like to be involved do send my a PM with your email. Maybe different people could put together little case studies either based on their own experiences or through discussing and observing other freedivers they train with.

Let me know what you think!
Kat

 

[noa]

hello Kattie,
thanks for your input and info.
i guess that acording to your explanation, most of pranayama's practices would be considered completely wrong, or inefective at best as they heavilly rely on alternate nostril breathing techniques. for the sake of some new knowledge, i would be happy to put several years of studying and practicing pranayama up for a "refurbishing".
on a different note, great idea for the case study and i would certainly be interested in participating. my e mail is noamarkou@gmail.com

 

[Kattie]

Hello Noa,
Please don't get me wrong. I do pranayama as well. I am just saying that the benefit of them for falling into flow are not related to oxygenating a particular part of the brain.

Breathing is key to freediving and its influence on relaxation is well known but what is more likely to influence the brain is the focus you have on your breathing.
Keep in mind that a lot of yoga practices are centuries old. We know much more about how the body and brain work now and oxygen is carried by the blood...

That said, what ever helps you to relax and shift your attention towards feelings rather than rational thoughts is likely to help you falling into flow.
It is, however, important to be aware of how the body works and not attribute false values to practices no matter how valuable they may be. We have only one trachea after all.

That said, i am indeed interested in your experiences.

 

[noa]

Hello Kattie,
No no, I didn't get you wrong at all and I appologise if my response had a wrong tone to it. I completely agree with you and wish nothing more than to learn from what you share.
It's also very true that yogic in general are thousands of years old and one cannot always take them at face value. Especially when one starts to read old vedic texts and scriptures promising such results as immortality to a diligent practitioner. Yes, there is certain value in these practices, the claims however are best taken with a grain of salt.
My experiences these days are more based on the "mind over matter" concept and how that can be incorporated into all aspects of daily life and of course freediving. People like Bruce Lipton come to mind as important sources of information for me. You sound indeed knowledgeable and hope to hear more as to how to bring the mind and body into the flow state.
Greatly looking forward to the unfolding of this very interesting topic.
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[Kars]

Hi Noa,

I suspect Yogi's a referring to prana, which relates to 'energy', not specific to O2. I suspect that the left right breathing helps to tickle and focus the respective brain halves.

Bruce Lipton indeed presents a very interesting view. And maybe the following personal experience relates to the power of the mind. Namely some year ago in Croatia I was diving and I got an outer ear infection. The heaps of dirt that came out of my right ear were incredible. A local dive physician told me I couldn't dive for at least 8 to 10 days. With my short vacation seemed over since it only was 7 days left. So I experimented a bit by while in bed focussing my mind to direct energy to the troubled part, to help it heal. I don't know but I and physician were pleasantly surprised on the 4th day, so I could have two more dive days without problems. I can think my HR down, think my skin warm, other can do much more freaky stuff, so I tent to think our minds have more power than some give credit to.

But to return to the subject have you got any nice question you would like to (seen) explore(d) Noa?

 

[noa]

Hi Kars,
Yes, very generally speaking prana is energy (but then again, EVERYTHING is energy, just vibrating at different frequencies giving them their own densities and appearances). In more "western" and scientific terms, the prana in oxygen could be translated as the negative ions or another theory is the molecular composition of O2.
Also the reason yogis breath almost exclusively through the nose is largely due to the olfactory lobe which absorbs prana. Anyway, another long topic, for another thread...
Yes people like Lipton and their research are very interesting. Just as quantum physicists have been demonstrating, our cells follow whatever orders we give them and not the other way around as we have always been told.
So, do I have a question ? Yes I do, how do we start, just start to implement this to freediving, and more specifically to flow freediving.
The style where the body will follow the mind. A mind inspired by emotions, feelings and boundless imagination. A underwater journey into the inner self. A liquid exploration of our true spiritual nature.
Ha ha, that, is the first part of my question. Or should I better say quest.
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[lambe]

Love the thread guys! great stuff.. Actually I'm doing a school report at the moment about flow, it's for philosophy. Anyway I found all of your comments very helpful and was just wondering if anyone could help me out abit.

What I need really would be more questions. Like, What is flow? How does it make you feel? Is it needed in life itself?
Basically weird questions that can't be answered
I will quote some great philosophers and say their thoughts about flow. Then after that say what I think about it and also relate it to freediving and then I'm going to need as many and as deep thoughts and questions about flow as possible
Very interesting subject for philosophy and it really fit into freediving
Thanks!

 

[Kars]

Very interesting research Lambe! I would love to hear what philosophers have to say about the mental state of flow. I did a quick internet search, but did not find anything yet.

Today I noticed that the amount of muscle power used and or the amount of will to direct the muscles, prevent relaxation and falling into flow. I used to train dynamics using more strength to help grow extra strength. But when doing a max it´s hard not to use the strength, taking away the needed relaxation and flow.

Some other affirmations where the importance of head position, rhythm, eye relaxation - being nearly closed.

---

What is flow?
At the moment it's for me: - it's a hypnotic like dis-associative state of mind that occurs during performing tasks that are well known to the performer.

How does it make me feel?
Like you're witnessing oneself and the world from outside one's body and time. Sensations appear dampened and delayed, moving is like riding along a bumbles smooth ride.

Is it needed in life itself?
Well people have survived a lot of hardship, just consider the thousands of years without TV and internet. But seriously, I think the flow ability has a place for those that need the best performance, athletes. Also images of the military come to mind, but also Flow is for sure very important to artists, useful for craftsmen, beneficiary to designers.
Maybe there is something like sexual flow? - a benign sounding excuse anyway

As of literature, search for Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's 'FLOW'.

"how do we start, just start to implement this to freediving, and more specifically to flow freediving.
The style where the body will follow the mind."

Good question.
I think in today's freediving courses there is already some techniques communicated, but it for sure not centred around reaching flow in freediving. I hope this exploration it's results will end up in courses and enrich the freedive experience for current and future freedivers.

 

[Adrian]

Here's some research on the effect of meditation on top athletes and "being in the zone".
Transcendental Meditation technique: Meditation and Peak Athletic Performance

The book referred to was written by two professional athletes.

My experience about being in the flow is directly related to the amount of silence I can experience at any time. This means no mental chatter and a deeply rested physiology. The experience of bliss and "flow" comes from the lack of friction in the nervous system. For friction read stress.

Different techniques will reduce stress, and expand our perception to experience unbounded awareness - which when experienced during activity, create this witnessing awareness that Kars mentioned, where while one is in deep silence, whatever activity one does unfolds itself perfectly and effortlessly without any usless mental chatter as mentioned in the article. It's a total focus, and a total integration with one's environment - the true meaning of "being here now".

The beautiful thing is that it is completely effortless and blissful while you experience it. The ability to train this however will vary with each individual and the regularity of their practice, state of their nervous system, stress they have etc. The road can have it's ups and downs, but once you are on it, you won't want to turn back.

And Kars, yes one can be in the flow during sex, and it is one of the most beautiful experiences in the world, it's also known as love and surrender.

 

[Fondueset]

Flow is letting go of all ideas.

 

[noa]

Wow, I'm very impressed with everyone's input, insights and points of view on the subject.
A few months ago I started a thread quite similar to this one called "spiritual freediving" but was unable to generate the ideas and response that are now present here. Thank you Kars and everyone involved for putting forth this thread and ideas.
Fantastic answers as to what "flow" is. It's the experience of pure being after having transcended thought, time, space, form and even feeling.
It is whatever you make of it on any given day.
One can train it, can persue it, but it will usually only stay with you (or you with it) once you let go of everything and just be. A simple silence, a connected awareness, a peaceful being.
Yes, I'm sure and certainly hopefull that one day, sooner than later these kinds
of thoughts, principles and practices will be included in freediving courses.
People everywhere are more and more opened, with a different awareness
than once. This thread is a great example of this and it's ideas and energy can only create a momentum for this direction to flourish.
Very soon, people will be able to go to a place where yogic practices, freediving, philosophy and spirituality will all be explored in unison.
Until then, let's keep on exchanging ideas, experimenting, exploring.
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[lambe]

As I assumed, always great responds and thoughts! Thanks

Yes Kars, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi is actually the guy im doing research on. He is one of the great philosophers and is mostly known for "defining/inventing" the mental state of mind called flow. He explains flow as a strong positive feeling that humans experience while doing challenging work that takes great concentration like brain surgeon, mountain climbing, athalites who are doing high preformens and painters who has strong inspirations and feelings in their art.

These are some of the "special" activites he mentions, but flow can be experienced during normal activites aswell. It's a very plesent feeling.

He also says that for the activity to provide flow it must balance the individual's ability and task requirements to be the right one. The task should pose a challenge - otherwise it will be boring. But it should not exceed one's ability - that makes you just stressed out.

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi says that one of the downsides with flow is that many individuals actually becomes addicted to their flow-experience. One example he mention is a surgeon who was on vacation with his wife. After two days he couldn't stand the feeling of being without the flow and began to work for free at the resort's hospital. I thought that was pretty funny
Athletes who reached the summit felt only emptiness - what should one do now? Another danger of flow is that it is "morally neutral". Scientists can be jailed to seek to resolve the "technically sweet problem", even if it is to produce atomic bombs. Despite the objections it seems that the flow experiences is essential to make life meaningful.

This is some of the things I'm writing about and imo it's very interesting and meaningful knowledge!


What is flow?
For me it's like you say Kars, a hypnotic state of mind that produces a very positive feeling.

How does it make me feel?
It makes me feel on top of the world, there is noone better then me and I'm invincible. It makes me feel like everything who ever was important was happening right now, I'm fully living in the present state of mind.
I don't get the feeling that I'm "witnessing oneself and the world from outside one's body and time." I can only explain it as the opposite feeling. I'm somehow pushed into myself and feeling almost like my body is doing all the work and I'm just a passenger who rides along. Watching and thinking, not doing anything fysicly. Everything just workes out perfect, despite the fact that it feels like I'm not nearly doing anything myself.

Is it needed in life itself?
I truly think that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi was right about this one. "Flow experiences is essential to make life meaningful."
In my opinion, there is not one true/greater meaning of life that God has created you for. I think it's many reasons and one among them is for us to experience and live in flow. It's one of the things who makes it all worth living for!

One thing that crossed my mind reading all of this and trying to look at it and question it from new aspects was to just reverse the question. How does it feel not having flow?

Everyone feel free to answer and come with more information or different aspects of this truly interesting subject!
Thanks for letting me share

//Lambi