Hybrid

[Salehthefish]

Hello this is continuous for my last project but i separated them so that i can follow properly with each. This section will be for hybrid gun.

Specs for this gun:

1- After machining blank area size 4.4 cm square.
2- Aluminum tube with rail (From Mako predator length 70 cm).
3- length of tube inside the wood will be 7 inch.
4- Muzzle from Mako for predator also.
5- will be using double 16mm bands with 7mm shaft.
6- Total length from trigger to muzzle 120 cm.
7- Mechanism i am not sure i am late to order from Neptonics and Josh told me will be delivered in 2-3 weeks i may go for riffe mechanism for this design.

These pictures for the work done so far.

Could not do it more than 7 inches the bit was not more than that. But i think it is ok for 120 cm gun.

Using the router bit i opened track so that the rail will pass through

This is picture after insertion of the tube in the hole (I insert with my hand but need bit pushing).

One stupid thing i did was the following: I opened the track for the tube all the way before 20 cm from the end of the blank. Now i have a step down after the rail of the tube inside the wood after this happened i decided to get nylon material and fix it in the position after the rail and again router that area to be leveled with the rail.

can i use nylon material instead of delrin I've checked it today and seems good, but dunno whats the difference between them.

Regarding the wood blank is it bit small or it is accepted for 120cm gun? I am thinking to add wenge wood from outside to both sides to give bigger butt.

Thanks your help and inputs.

 

[cannibalsub]

saleh bro great job.

 

[josephlys]

Thwas just wondering what other options do i have to use in place of real speargun bands. Could i use exercise bands.:martial

 

[gserghiou]

can i use nylon material instead of delrin I've checked it today and seems good, but dunno whats the difference between them.

Hi Saleh,

Nice job there !

difference between different types of 'plastics' can be found in the link below

Engineering Plastics, Nylon, Acetal, PTFE, Tufnol Rod & Sheet

that will take you to the first page of the site. in the middle if you click on the links in blue ie (nylon, nylon 6, nylon 66, etc etc) or below that , where you can see the images you can click for delrin etc. the new page will show you the product (ie nylon rods) and below will have a brief explanation of what the material is. advantagees and disadvantages....

im sure i have visited a site before with more 'scientific' explanations but i think this one sums it all in plain English !!!

hope it helps !!!

 

[Salehthefish]

Thanks guyz i appreciate that...

regarding Delrin material this is what i found


Delrin Rod Differences
Delrin Rod is a homopolymer grade Acetal, this means that there are advantages and disadvantages over Acetal Rod.
Delrin Rod Advantages
Delrin Rod is more suited to the more mechanical applications where an easy to machine and high quality surface finish is required. It is potentially harder wearing than Acetal and is often used in the manufacture of gears or even motorcycle crash pegs.
Delrin Rod Disadvantages
Delrin Rod is not suitable for food contact applications and has less resistance to chemical attack. It also has a lower size range availability and can be slightly more expensive.



And there is comparison here between nylon grades 6 and 66




Why choose Nylon 6 or Nylon 6.6
There is very little difference but here is our opinion:
Nylon 6
Nylon 6 has a greater size range availability, is slightly more economical and slightly more impact resistant but is also slightly softer and slightly less high temperature resistant.
Nylon 6.6
Nylon 6.6. is very slightly better at operating with higher temperatures and is also slightly harder, but it is also slightly more expensive, has a smaller size range and slightly less impact resistance.



On this website there is comparison Comparison Table for Plastics.



Delrin® AF contains Teflon® fibers, where low coefficient of friction, high resistance to abrasion and wear are required. E.I. Dupont’s trade name for Acetal.
Delrin® Co-polymer, Copolymer acetal offers better resistance to a wide range of chemicals, oils, greases, and solvents.
Available in sheet, rod or tube. Thicknesses available in sheet 1/16” to 4” and 1/8” to 10” rod.


Maybe the nylon that i will use will have wear in less time then delrin, but i will try it and see.

 

[Salehthefish]

Just some pics updating the work. So far i have glued wenge wood to the previous wood (Teak) because i felt that the weight of the wood with previous dimention 4.4 x 4.4 cm will be small and will make recoil to the gun. Side Wood added were 0.7 cm laminated and the bottom wood added is 1 cm lamination. I am going to Fix riffe euro mechanism which was available (Friend of mine volunteered with the trigger mechanism and the handle I will use it for test purpose).

 

[Salehthefish]

SO far this is the shape after finishing. It is bit bulky i will test it while it is in this thick profile and if i will see it is heavy underwater i will make some changes and remove some wood and reduce the profile.

Last Length was 100 cm from muzzle to trigger mechanism

Rubber to be used ==> I will try 2 setups 16mm double bands and 18 mm double bands

Shaft is euro riffe with euro trigger mechanism

 

[Salehthefish]

Tested today very low visibility but was happy about the accuracy, but the weight of the gun was but heavy and the gun was not balanced i.e the tip was going down and the butt was flowing on top. I am planning to reduce the profile of the gun before then if i will need i will try to adjust it by adding weights. Is it normal in my case if the Aluminum side sink slowly down or it should sink then stop at some level this point i am not getting clear about balancing? It should sink then stop at about 10 cm from the sea level then it should float at 10 cm in the same place? Any one could help i would appreciate it.

I have finished the gun with teak oil. What shall i add to the gun in addition to teak oil to make it shining can i use epoxy paint after teak oil?

Thanks for your always support all

 

[blaiz]

Gun looks awesome! Dont use an epoxy over the oil. It wont hold to the oiled finish. If you want more of a sheen I would suggest tung oil. 3-4 coats of tung oil will give you a nice glossy finish.

Hybrids are hard to balance, the muzzles always seem to be heavy and the butts buoyant. I would suggest adding lead to the very end of the but to help raise the muzzle when holding it at the handle (fulcrum).

 

[Salehthefish]

Hi Blaiz thnx a lot for your helpful inputs. I have removed some of the volume of the gun and tried it yesterday and it was more buoyant but still i will remove more from the gun since i feel that there is negligible recoil at the gun. area will be approx 4.5 x 4.5 cm.

 

[foxfish]

In my mind a nicely balanced gun would just hover if you let it go under water.

The idea is to balance the gun so that there is no strain on your wrist, a muzzle heavy gun is a real nuisance to swim around with as you need to make a deliberate effort to hold the gun out in front of you & this in turn makes it very difficult to relax.
Obviously once the spear is released the gun will become more buoyant & float.

Building a one off gun can often cause problems trying to get the perfect balance. More than once I had to scrape my home made project because I just could not get it right.

Removing wood, adding concealed lead, forming air pockets or even adjusting the spears length or diameter are all ways to achieve a good balance.

 

[Tin Man]

In my mind a nicely balanced gun would just hover if you let it go under water.

I must respectfully disagree, but in the end, it is really all about your personal preference. Myself, I find that my shots are more accurate and more consistent if the gun is just slightly nose heavy. I hold it at the midpoint when swimming, but that is again something that will depend on your hunting style and conditions.

I think that you have re-discovered why the majority (not all) hybrids are mid handled, and not rear handled. With a mid handle, the weight of the trigger is behind the handle, and there is greater leverage to put ballast in the butt to achieve the desired balance.

One thing that you could look at is the position of the forward barrel plug. To get the most buoyancy from what you have, make sure that the plug is right up behind the muzzle, with no "dead space" to fill with water.

Beautiful gun though! I especially love the contrast of the darker wood. Unfortunately, if it is dense wood, then it's not helping your balance issue.

 

[Salehthefish]

Thanks for your helpful tips and inputs. First of all regarding the tip going down because of the volume of the wood which i reduce much now I kept some mass at the butt so that in case it will not go along with the front side of the gun i will add some weight there.

I have removed my muzzle and i found that 10-20 ml of water was accumulated there which i found it ok for me in case i will use the same Muzzle for next builds i will make a grove in the muzzle and fix and or ring to seal perfectly.

I have tried to use tung oil on top of teak oil to make it more shiny and it work so far but not as shiny as epoxy or acrylic paint anyway was better esult than teak oil and thnx for the advice.

Here are some photos for the gun after removing some wood again, and will have to test it as soon as possible.

Again and not last thnx for ur help guyz...

 

[blaiz]

Keep loading on the tung oil, trust me, you will get a nice sheen. Its not going to be like a thick epoxy coat but should be a nice glossy urathane-like finsih. Easy to touch up and maintain too.

 

[jtkwest]

NICE. did riffe sell you that mech with the safety? that looks like you took a riffe euro apart for the parts. what did you have one laying around? cool. was the riffe mech easy to mortise-in? it looks like alot of chisel work to do a riffe trigger. i've got all the makings for 2 cf-hybrids. but after messing up the first one a little. i have been putting them on hold. fyi: mako spearguns is about to come out with a barrel with an enclosed track built -in. and he WILL sell them sepaerately for the gun builders who want to do hybrids. he is even having a custom bit made to cut them into the wood, that he will lend out ,(with deposit) to builders who want to build guns. pretty cool guy huh? anyway, i am first on the list, after that you guys are welcome to them.

 

[Tin Man]

Jason - I take it you saw the new hybrid at the Blue Wild show? Did you recognize the handywork on the delrin muzzle and AR-15 handle?

 

[Salehthefish]

I saw that Hybrid pics on Spearboard it is a great work and good business for Mako will be my only supplier in future i am already customer of Mako and i could not find those parts before available with him... By the way Daryl Wong now selling also his kit All in one Kit want to try it also...

 

[jtkwest]

Jason - I take it you saw the new hybrid at the Blue Wild show? Did you recognize the handywork on the delrin muzzle and AR-15 handle?

no i didnt go. i should have, but no one wanted to do the 4 hour drive north to fort lauderdale. i have been bugging dano for about 6 months about the hybrid thing. my original design was to use a mako barrel.i elected to have the cf tubes made, since i got them so cheap. dano email'd me about 3 weeks ago to tell me about the new enclosed track tubes. he is now making a bit to install them with. (unless he already has it.) i will look it up on spearboard, though. thats awesome!,(about you designing the muzzle and handle) how did that come to be? if i HAD seen it, i would have recognized the handle immediately. i showed that handle to ken jones from deathstick recently. he was impressed. you should see his new handles, he copied them from hamilton spearguns, i'm pretty sure ,(from stuff he said) they are tooled soft rubber on a metal frame similar to neptonics. i got him to unscrew one from one of the guns he had with him and sell it to me for 80$ . i will start a thread to post the pics if you are interested to see them. he did them with the same screw hole pattern as wong. ,(like you) they are right up there with your handle as the best i have ever seen.

 

[Salehthefish]

Hi Jason i missed your question about the mechanism actually got it from my friend's riffe euro gun and as you said took too much work and suffer to fix it i am working now on one riffe gun C type 60 cm for a friend who want to upgrade it to 100 cm gun C mechanism is much simple to fix...

Id anyone interested i can take close up pics for the mechanism...

 

[alpinemike]

Good job the gun looks great. Have you shot it yet?