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Hypercapnia or Hipoxia?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Regarding the subscript 2, on my screen it actually appears slightly to the left, eg. C20, rather than to the right eg. C02, because the 2 is just slightly to the left of the base of the O. So it actually appears like a mirror-reflected Q.
Not so significant, just thought to mention.
This is getting off-topic so it might be better to move it to a separate thread. However, the problem is on your end - the subscript 2 is a standard Unicode character (#2082), so if it does not display properly on your computer, the problem is definitely there and not in the way I type it, or the way DB stores it. The form you used in your example is not a subscript two, but just the character two displayed in a smaller font, which is typographically still incorrect way to display chemical formulas :) Well, I do not think it is important - we all know what it is. I am just trying to tell you that the computer you use has fonts that are either outdated or poorly designed, and that they are worth of updating. If you have problems with this character, there may be many others that do not display correctly (Unicode fonts contain several thousands of characters)
 
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(Thanks for subscript info)

This is from a scientific paper, not a journalist's report :

Differential Contribution of Pacemaker Properties to
the Generation of Respiratory Rhythms during Normoxia
and Hypoxia (Neuron. vol.43 issue.1 - 2004 )

Fernando Peña, , Marjorie A. Parkis, Andrew K. Tryba
and Jan-Marino Ramirez

"... Here, we propose that the transition from eupnea
to gasping is accompanied by a reduction in pacemaker
diversity, such that during anoxia gasping is driven
only by Cd-insensitive pacemaker neurons. The riluzole
experiments further suggest that gasping depends on
pacemaker neurons that are resistant to hypoxia and
critically depend on the persistent sodium current.
This hypothesis has important clinical implications, as
it might help to better understand the cellular mechanisms
that underlie pathologies such as SIDS. SIDS has been
specifically associated with a reduction in serotonin
receptor expression , and we have previously demonstrated
that endogenous release of serotonin is required for burst
generation in Cd-insensitive pacemaker neurons the same
neurons required for gasping as demonstrated here.
Indeed, it is well established that SIDS children fail
to resuscitate due to a reduced number of gasps.
Consequently, our study may provide an important missing
link in our understanding of how a disturbed serotonergic
system may ultimately lead to the inability to
autoresuscitate and thus sudden infant death..."

What I find odd is that they do not even mention CO2 at all, when discussing gasping, autoresuscitation. I had thought that hypercapnea acidosis would be directly involved in the cellular respiration, affecting the sodium and calcium ion channels in some manner.

My understanding is this: [Conjecture]
Gasping occurs due to hypercapnea.
Gasping cannot occur (even in hypercapnea) if the pacemaker neurons are deficit or malfunctioning, whether normoxia or hypoxia.
Pacemaker neurons depend on functional serotonergic system (both abundant serotonin and functional serotonin receptor sites).

An hypothesis: [Conjecture]

1) During apnea, (under extreme hyperventilation) CO2 level is reduced to hypocapnea, which delays gasping reflex, contractions and urge to exhale, while O2 cellular consumption is normal (not conserved) and heartbeat is not significantly slowed, so when O2 level is decreased lower than conscious brain requires, black-out (or LMC) results. Although CO2 level is initially low, it rises relatively quickly due to non-conserved O2 consumption.

2) During apnea, (normal ventilation), oxygen conservation and peripheral vasoconstriction engage, CO2 gradually increases which engages a supplemental pumping action (diaphragm contractions) which is separate from the bradycardial (slowed) heart beat pump. This supplemental contraction pump moves O2, CO2 and electrolytes through the fluids and tissues more quickly and efficiently than the slow heart pump alone. This allows the heart beat rate to slow even more, possibly approaching that of marine mammals.

This supplemental hypercapneic contraction pump increases (or manages) the flow of:
carbonic acid in blood hemoglobin
lactic acid in muscle tissue myoglobin
sialic acid in cerebral tissue neuroglobin (?)
other acid in cerebral tissue cytoglobin (?)

The result is near-hypoxic physiologic conditions (after a time period) with hypercapneic acidosis as the primer (or activator) of the contraction pump.
Importantly, parts of the brain would not be near-hypoxic, they would have slightly conserved but fully available O2 flow at all times.

Just for example, hearing in humans is 1/2 air conduction, 1/2 bone conduction, so likely during submersed apnea using 2), the part of the brain which operates air-conducted auditory functions would "sleep" thus requiring much less oxygen than that part which operates bone-conducted auditory functions, which remain fully active during submersion. The same for other brain components inactive while during apneic submersion (olfaction? higher processes?).

DDeden [This hypothesis may be incorrect, caution]
 
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2) During apnea, (normal ventilation), oxygen conservation and peripheral vasoconstriction engage, CO2 gradually increases which engages a supplemental pumping action (diaphragm contractions) which is separate from the bradycardial (slowed) heart beat pump. This supplemental contraction pump moves O2, CO2 and electrolytes through the fluids and tissues more quickly and efficiently than the slow heart pump alone. This allows the heart beat rate to slow even more, possibly approaching that of marine mammals, which further reduces heart rate.
Interesting, I wonder if marine mammals have contractions during normal dives? I think probably not, but maybe their swimming action has the same effect.

Thanks for finding a scientific paper. :)
 
Interesting, I wonder if marine mammals have contractions during normal dives? I think probably not, but maybe their swimming action has the same effect.

I strongly suspect that they do, however it would probably be manifested differently than in humans, and much much more finely tuned. Some (or all?) seals "sleep" on their descent, thus minimizing both aerobic and anaerobic respiration. Some (or all?) seals shiver while at the (cold) surface but not while diving, so possibly the shiver function becomes an internalized series of apneic contractions during the ascent of a dive. They also have different styles of dives, deep singular vs shallow series vs deep series vs very deep singular. Likely their typical swimming movements correlate to this supplemental pumping to a certain degree.

My guess is that fully aquatic mammals have non-noticeable contractions, while humans have teeth-grinding contractions because we are so terrestrial in our daily lives, with aerobic breathing based more on walking and talking.

DDeden
 
This is from a scientific paper, not a journalist's report :
Yes, it is what I referred to in my previous post. The document does not speak about hypercapnia because it is not the subject of that scientific work. It does not discuss what triggers the gasping. It speaks about what shuts down one of the two neuronal systems controlling the gasping. And that's hypoxia, with no relation to carbon dioxide. And it does not speak about hypercapnia, because it is actually unimportant that it is the trigger - it is not what causes problems, and it is not what causes SIDS. The work exclusively speaks about sodium and calcium driven neuronal networks that control the pacemaker rhythm. It is due to hypoxia not hypercapnia, that the calcium neurons stop working, and the body relies on the sodium neurons as pacemakers. And in cases when sodium-driven pacemaker neurons are affected by disturbed serotin binding in areas critical for respiration, the entire system falls apart.

So simply told, there is no real reason to speak about hypercapnia, in this work, because it's role is not to explain how breathing works, but just the opposite - why it fails (even if the CO2 trigger is there).

As for your hypothesis - you are of course right. In fact, I'd tell it is no hypothesis, but well known facts, which nobody puts in doubts - neither in the scientific document, nor here (well, maybe except the small misunderstanding with contractions that were mistakenly taken for hypoxic, and what we hopefully cleared up enough).

As for your comments about hypercapnic contractions working as a pump for distributing liquids - I cannot really comment. I never read about such function, and rather suppose that the contractions are purely muscular reaction trying to restore the breath, and doubt that their purpose is the distribution of different acids you mention. If the comments are based on some specific facts or scientific works, I'd be happy to read about it more, of course.
 
Some (or all?) seals shiver while at the (cold) surface but not while diving, so possibly the shiver function becomes an internalized series of apneic contractions during the ascent of a dive.
That sounds like one of my statics in the cold pool. :D

I forgot to say in my previous post that when I get contractions, my heart rate is often high. I will measure it. My heart rate often increases towards the end of a static, and even more in CO2 tables.
 
Trux,

Thanks for your explanation of the paper's subject.

Regarding the hypothesis, it includes both the "well known facts" and the hypercapneic supplemental pump, where O2, CO2 and electrolytes are efficiently distributed during bradycardia, at the time when the heart rate is slow. If the diaphragmatic contractions were merely breath muscle activation, why then would we have them while underwater, since we can't breathe there? These contractions cost both energy and O2, surely there must be a physiological benefit.

It seems more parsimonious to me to view them not as reflex breathing attempts but rather as biochemical distribution pumping, stimulated by the presence of CO2 or carbonic acid at certain chemoreceptors.

I wonder if anyone has done any further research on this.

DDeden
======

Yes, it is what I referred to in my previous post. The document does not speak about hypercapnia because it is not the subject of that scientific work. It does not discuss what triggers the gasping. It speaks about what shuts down one of the two neuronal systems controlling the gasping. And that's hypoxia, with no relation to carbon dioxide. And it does not speak about hypercapnia, because it is actually unimportant that it is the trigger - it is not what causes problems, and it is not what causes SIDS. The work exclusively speaks about sodium and calcium driven neuronal networks that control the pacemaker rhythm. It is due to hypoxia not hypercapnia, that the calcium neurons stop working, and the body relies on the sodium neurons as pacemakers. And in cases when sodium-driven pacemaker neurons are affected by disturbed serotin binding in areas critical for respiration, the entire system falls apart.

So simply told, there is no real reason to speak about hypercapnia, in this work, because it's role is not to explain how breathing works, but just the opposite - why it fails (even if the CO2 trigger is there).

As for your hypothesis - you are of course right. In fact, I'd tell it is no hypothesis, but well known facts, which nobody puts in doubts - neither in the scientific document, nor here (well, maybe except the small misunderstanding with contractions that were mistakenly taken for hypoxic, and what we hopefully cleared up enough).

As for your comments about hypercapnic contractions working as a pump for distributing liquids - I cannot really comment. I never read about such function, and rather suppose that the contractions are purely muscular reaction trying to restore the breath, and doubt that their purpose is the distribution of different acids you mention. If the comments are based on some specific facts or scientific works, I'd be happy to read about it more, of course.
 
That sounds like one of my statics in the cold pool. :D

I forgot to say in my previous post that when I get contractions, my heart rate is often high. I will measure it. My heart rate often increases towards the end of a static, and even more in CO2 tables.

That's interesting. I think the contractions are evolved or "meant" for the active ascent, rather than for the static descent (thinking of the "sleeping seals" here). Since you are doing a static, the heart rate may get a echo or reverb effect from the contractions.

Have you done an empty lung or FRC dynamic while measuring heart rate during contractions? (without packing or hyper-ventilating)

DDeden
 
Well, I tried to find more detailed information about the breathing physiology and biochemistry, but the more I search the more I discover that it is much more complex than I ever thought. One of interesting documents is the following one about hypoventilation syndroms. Unfortunately it does not go too much into details, but it claims that there are both PaCO₂and PaO₂chemoreceptors (Pa stands for Partial Pressure of the respective gas in Arterial Blood), and as well pH chemoreceptors (for detecting the acidity caused by carbonic acid or other metabolic acids), and that all three of them are influence and control the ventillation. Failure of any of them results in ventilating disorder.

eMedicine - Hypoventilation Syndromes : Article by Sat Sharma, MD, FRCPC, FACP, FCCP, DABSM
 
Some (or all?) seals shiver while at the (cold) surface but not while diving, so possibly the shiver function becomes an internalized series of apneic contractions during the ascent of a dive. They also have different styles of dives, deep singular vs shallow series vs deep series vs very deep singular. Likely their typical swimming movements correlate to this supplemental pumping to a certain degree.

AFAIK, shivering is a thermo-regulation mechanism, not a "pumping" mechanism as you seem to suggest. Its purpose is to maintain body temperature. It shuts down during dives or hypoxemia - when the body goes into the saving mode it shuts down all immediately unnecessary energy consumption. I do not think that shivering and contractions are related or controlled by the same mechanism.

Hypoxemia decreases shivering not only at seals but at other mammals including humans too (not only at Lucia :) ). For example the following document mentions it, although it is not its primary purpose. It describes an experiment on rabbits that were anesthetized and then cooled. As described there, decreasing shivering due to hypoxemia is common, but it was needed to prove that the mechanism works also in anesthesia. The purpose of the experiment was to show that shivering does not cause postoperative hypoxemia as was suspected.

Hypoxemia decreases the shivering threshold in rabbits anesthetized with 0.2 minimum alveolar anesthetic concentration isoflurane -- Iwashita et al. 87 (6): 1408 -- Anesthesia & Analgesia

The shivering decrease due to hypoxia is also the reaon why we feel much colder than normal swimmers, when training in a swimming pool. You can notice it especially if you use to train also wet static apnea. I am rather cold resistant, but need a wetsuit even in the +33C° water in the pool we use for the static training.
 
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Hi Guys,

Fascinating thread. Thanks for the laymen's interpretations of some very complex theories. You are discussing at a level way over my head, so I am here only to learn. However, you were just discussing the possible physiological benefits of contractions. Have you read the work regarding "splenic contractions"?

As I understand it, when the diaphragm contracts it "squeezes" the spleen like a pump. The spleen is the bodies "warehouse" for ertyhrocytes (red blood cells), and the contractions cause release of more erythrocytes into the blood. This increases the bodies ability to metabolize oxygen, both on use (breathhold) and recovery. Apparently this always happens, but much more so when the DR is activated. Thus, training to improve the efficiency of DR improves both breathold and recovery.

Am I even close on this? Thanks again... keep it going.

BD
 
Have you read the work regarding "splenic contractions"?
Yes, spleen contractions are important part of diving reflex at mammals. For example at Weddell seals the spleen has the ability to store up to 24L of blood. The spleen then contracts during a dive causing the stored oxygen enriched blood to enter the blood stream. Unfortunately the spleen is much smaller at humans. I do not think though that the contractions we feel during hypercapnia are the same, and do not know if the spleen contraction is part of it, or a separate mechanism.

I am just reading through many physiology articles, but there are so many of them, so I am afraid that there is enough reading for at least several months. The spleen contractions at seals are discussed for example here:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/82/6/1989.pdf

Splenic contractions at human divers are documented for example here:
Splenic contraction during breath-hold diving in the Korean ama -- Hurford et al. 69 (3): 932 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

A nice document about laboratory experiments human diving reflex, containing many links, is here:
SIMULATED HUMAN DIVING AND HEART RATE: MAKING THE MOST OF THE DIVING RESPONSE AS A LABORATORY EXERCISE -- Hiebert and Burch 27 (3): 130 -- Advances in Physiology Education

And of course, there is also the thesis of Dr. Peter Lindholm who is also a DB member:
http://www.affarspartner-sthlm.se/learningapnea/research/thesis.pdf

However, there are hundreds of other documents discussing usually extremely narrow and specific topics of human ventilation and breathing physiology.
 
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Trux, respiration is complex, we agree on that. This info. (split into 2 posts) is related to resp., cycles, biochemical distribution. DDeden

NO & melatonin in umbilical blood
http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/11301067
Melatonin has also been reported to inhibit nitric oxide synthetase.
NO strongly interacts with molecular oxygen to form dinitrotrioxide (N2O3)
Physiological role of NO as neurotransmitter

In epithelial cells, NO causes vascular dilatation by controlling
smooth muscle contractility. In the central nervous system it affects
synaptic transmission stimulating learning and memory capacity.
Glutamate is produced and released by a synapse and activates the NMDA
receptor subtype of glutamate receptors. This leads to an influx of
calcium ions which in turn bind to calmodulin, activating the neuronal
NOS. NOS synthesizes NO depending on the availability of L-arginine,
which is mainly supplied from extra-neuronal sites (mainly glial
cells). NO not only activates the postsynaptic guanyl cyclases, but can
diffuse across the synaptic cleft back into the synapse that originally
released the glutamate. This retrograde transport of NO is thought to
reinforce the capability of glutaminergic signaling. Such a
prolonged reinforcement of synaptic stimulatory activity is known as
long term potentiation and is implicated as a possible molecular
mechanism promoting long term memory and learning.

In blood plasma NO induces platelet aggregation, an important factor in
wound healing and blood coagulation. It has been shown that hemoglobin
is a major transport vehicle for NO in blood.


http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15258029
Effects of melatonin on the nitric oxide treated retina.

CONCLUSION: Uncontrolled NO elevation caused morphological and nuclear
changes in the retina. Melatonin significantly suppressed the NO
induced increase in mIRLT, INL HC expression, and apoptotic ganglion
cells on day 1, but not after day 4. Melatonin may have a protective
role in the NO elevated retina.

Journal of pineal research. ISSN: 0742-3098 (Print) 1600-079X
(Electronic) Title Abbreviation: J Pineal Res ISO Abbreviation: J.
Pineal Res. Publication Start Year: 1984
Publisher: Munksgaard International Publishers Language: English Country: Denmark Subject Term(s): Endocrinology NLM ID: 8504412

MELATONIN

Melatonin is N-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine, which is a mammalian hormone
synthesized from serotonin, mainly (but not exclusively) in the pineal
gland. Melatonin has been shown to reduce cardiac arrythmias and to
reduce oxidized lipids in the ischemic heart. Melatonin is a natural
sleep-inducing agent. Daylight reduces melatonin production, such that
blood levels are usually high at night and low during the day.
Artificial light reduces melatonin production. Shift-workers who sleep
in darkened rooms with their eyes closed can increase melatonin
production during daylight hours. Melatonin given as supplements during
daytime causes feelings of sleepiness and fatigue, which can adversely
affect performance [PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES
(USA); Dollins,AB; 91(5):1824-1828 (1994)].

Melatonin is a very powerful anti-oxidant. Unlike Vitamin C or
glutathione, which are only active in aqueous (watery) phase and
Vitamin E, which is only active in lipid (oily) phase, melatonin is
effective in both aqueous and lipid phases. Melatonin concentrations
are particularly high in mitochondria and the cell nucleus. Unlike

Vitamin E and Vitamin C, which cannot readily cross the blood-brain
barrier, melatonin easily crosses the blood-brain barrier [EXPERIMENTAL
BIOLOGY AND MEDICINE; Reiter, RJ; 230:104-117 (2005)]. Lifespan
studies on mice and rats have shown significant lifespan increase as a
result of melatonin supplementation, when given to older rodents and
when co-administered with Thyrotropin-Releasing Hormone (TRH is also
produced in the pineal gland) [JOURNAL OF ANTI-AGING MEDICINE;
Pierpaoli,W; 2(4):343-348 (1999)]. Typically, only supplements given
at nighttime are effective.


A. Roesner, T. Hankeln, and T. Burmester
Hypoxia induces a complex response of globin expression...
J. Exp. Biol., June 1, 2006; 209(11): 2129 - 2137.

M. Brunori, A. Giuffre, K. Nienhaus, G. U. Nienhaus, ...
Neuroglobin, NO, and O2: Functional pathways and conformational changes
PNAS, June 14, 2005; 102(24): 8483 - 8488.

A. Bentmann, M. Schmidt, ...
Divergent Distribution in Vascular and Avascular Mammalian Retinae Links Neuroglobin to Cellular Respiration
J. Biol. Chem., May 27, 2005; 280(21): 20660 - 20665.

J. Ostojic, D. S. Sakaguchi, Y. de Lathouder,...
Neuroglobin and cytoglobin: oxygen-binding proteins in retinal neurons.
Invest. Ophthalmol. Vis. Sci., March 1, 2006; 47(3): 1016 - 1023.

S. Herold, A. Fago, R. E. Weber, S. Dewilde, and L. Moens
Reactivity Studies of the Fe(III) and Fe(II)NO Forms of Human Neuroglobin Reveal a Potential Role against Oxidative Stress
J. Biol. Chem., May 28, 2004; 279(22): 22841 - 22847.

M. Schmidt, F. Gerlach, A. Avivi, T. Laufs,...
Cytoglobin Is a Respiratory Protein in Connective Tissue and Neurons, Which Is Up-regulated by Hypoxia
J. Biol. Chem., February 27, 2004; 279(9): 8063 - 8069.

How Does the Eye Breathe? [Source needed]
EVIDENCE FOR NEUROGLOBIN-MEDIATED OXYGEN SUPPLY IN THE MAMMALIAN RETINA
Visual performance of the vertebrate eye requires large amounts of oxygen, and thus the retina is one of the highest oxygen-consuming tissues of the body. Here we show that neuroglobin, a neuron-specific respiratory protein distantly related to hemoglobin and myoglobin, is present at high amounts in the mouse retina (~100 µM). The estimated concentration of neuroglobin in the retina is thus about 100-fold higher than in the brain and is in the same range as that of myoglobin in the muscle. Neuroglobin is expressed in all neurons of the retina but not in the retinal pigment epithelium.These findings suggest that neuroglobin supplies oxygen to the retina, similar to myoglobin in the myocardium and the skeletal muscle

Cycles, rhythms & clocks
Olfactory clock
ScienceDaily: Researchers Find Biological Clock For Smell In Mice

Photic clock: Vasoactive polypeptide in brain & GI tract
ScienceDaily: Discovery Clarifies Role Of Peptide In Biological Clock

VIP & GABA in cycle synchrony
ScienceDaily: 'Pony Express' Protein Shown To Rally Biological Clock

Brain temperature affects biol clock rhythm
ScienceDaily: The Brain's 'Timex': Biological Clock More Influenced By Temperature Than Light


PNAS 101:14937-42
Astrocytes generate Na+-mediated metabolic waves
Yann Bernardinelli, Pierre J Magistretti & Jean-Yves Chatton 2004

Glutamate-evoked Na+ increase in astrocytes has been identified as a
signal coupling synaptic activity to glucose consumption. Astrocytes
participate in multicellular signaling by transmitting intercellular
Ca2+ waves. Here we show that intercellular Na+ waves are also evoked
by activation of single cultured cortical mouse astrocytes in parallel
with Ca2+ waves; however, there are spatial and temporal differences.
Indeed, maneuvers that inhibit Ca2+ waves also inhibit Na+ waves;
however, inhibition of the Na+/glutamate cotransporters or enzymatic
degradation of extracellular glutamate selectively inhibit the Na+
wave. Thus, glutamate released by a Ca2+ wave-dependent mechanism is
taken up by the Na+/glutamate cotransporters, resulting in a
regenerative propagation of cytosolic Na+ increases. The Na+ wave gives
rise to a spatially correlated increase in glucose uptake, which is
prevented by glutamate transporter inhibition. Therefore, astrocytes
appear to function as a network for concerted neurometabolic coupling
through the generation of intercellular Na+ and metabolic waves. jean-yves.chatton@...
 
Defence strategies against hypoxia and hypothermia.
Author: P.W. Hochachka Subjects: Biochemistry - Hypothermia -
Physiological aspects Metabolism - Research Hypoxia
Electronic Collection: A4100454 RN: A4100454

Though some degree of hypoxia and hypothermia can be sustained by all
animals, both conditions ultimately are incompatible with survival of
most mammalian tissues. Some ectothermic animals, however, are capable of surviving for long periods without O.sub.2, and some mammals (notably
hibernators) can tolerate--in fact, can take advantage of --hypothermia. When we investigated the means by which these abilities
are achieved at the cellular level, we found that the most serious
perturbations of hypoxia and of hypothermia arise from an imbalance
between (i) the extent of depression of adenosine triphosphate (ATP)
synthesis rates and (ii) the depression of processes requiring
membrane-based ATP. When metabolic and membrane functions are
decoupled, the cells (tissues or organisms) necessarily
become sensitive to hypoxia, to hypothermia, or to both conditions.

When, however, the two rate processes are matched despite O.sub.2
limitations or low temperature, then an impressive tolerance to
hypoxia, to ypothermia, or to both conditions is achievable. The
situation of simultaneous resistance to lack of O.sub.2 and to low
temperature arises because some of the fundamental mechanisms used by
hypoxia-tolerant animals to protect tissues and organs against hypoxia
are the same as, or at least remarkably similar to,those used by cold-
tolerant organisms such as hibernators to sustain prolonged hypothermia.

In this article, similarities and differences in
mechanisms of adaptation to hypoxia and hypothermia are analyzed, with
emphasis on opportunities, wherever possible, for novel intervention
strategies.

How Animals Survive Oxygen Lack: contd.
Source: The Biological Bulletin, June 2001 v200 i3 p247.
Title: Structure of Sequence Conservation of a Putative Hypoxia Response Element in the Lactate Dehydrogenase-B Gene
Author: BERNARD B. REES, JOHN A. L. BOWMAN and PATRICIA M. SCHULTE

Subjects: Killifishes -Hypoxia - Gene expression - Aquatic biology -
Aquatic ecology - Research Electronic Collection: A78400891 RN:
A78400891 Full Text COPYRIGHT 2001 Marine Biological Laboratory

Many aquatic habitats are characterized by periodic or sustained
episodes of low oxygen concentration, or hypoxia, and organisms that
survive in these habitats do so by utilizing a suite of behavioral, physiological and biochemical adjustments to low oxygen [1-3]. n the killifish Fundulus heteroclitus, one response to prolonged exposure to hypoxia is an increase in the activity of lactate dehydrogenase-B (LDH-B), the terminal enzyme of anaerobic glycolysis, in liver tissue [4]. An increase in glycolytic enzyme activity also occurs in mammalian cells during hypoxia, a
process due, in part, to increased rates of gene transcription mediated
by the hypoxia-inducible transcription factor, HIF-1 [5].

Source: The Lancet, Sept 15, 2001 v358 i9285 p897.
Title: S-nitrosothiols--lots of deep breaths required
Author: James Butcher Subjects: Nitric oxide -Hypoxia -Ventilation-perfusion ratio - Physiological aspects
Magazine Coll: 108D3510 Electronic Coll: A78432385 RN: A78432385

The reflex respiratory response to hypoxia--increased ventilation--may
not be due to just low blood oxygen concentrations after all. Rather, a
group of molecules called the S-nitrosothiols (SNOs), which are
released from haemoglobin in deoxygenated blood, directly affect the
respiratory centres in the brainstem to cause an increase in
ventilation, investigators report this week (Nature 2001; 413: 171-74).
S-nitrosothiols are molecules that ferry the nitric oxide (NO) group
around the body, by transferring NO to a cysteine thiol or sulphydryl
group (S-nitrosylation). "S-nitrosylation is akin to phosphorylation--a
post-translational modification of protein that can control the
protein's function", explains Stuart Lipton (Burnham Institute, La
Jolla, CA, USA), the author of an accompanying commentary (Nature
2001;413: 118-21).

Previous work has shown that SNOs have a role in matching ventilation
to perfusion in the lungs, and in controlling the supply of oxygenated
blood to the tissues. The new study adds one more skill to their
repertoire--they appear to also control respiration centrally. The US
researchers, led by Benjamin Gaston (University of Virginia,
Charlottesville, VA, USA) and David Gozal (University of Louisville,
KY, USA), showed this by injecting tiny quantities (0.1[micro]L) of
nitrosothiols into the nucleus tractus solitarius (NTS) of freely
moving conscious rats, and measuring the resultant changes in
ventilation. The NTS, located in the dorsal medulla, is the site of
termination of a wide variety of visceral afferents, including those
from the peripheral chemoreceptors. The nitrosothiols caused a reflex
increase in ventilation following injection into the NTS, a response
that looked qualitatively similar to that elicited when the rats were
placed in an environment containing 10% oxygen. In addition, injection
of plasma from deoxygenated, but not from oxygenated, blood into the
NTS produced a similar ventilatory effect to both SNOs injection and
hypoxia. The precise mechanism of action, however, remains undetermined
at present. Several neurotransmitter receptors are S-nitrosylated to
regulate their activity, most notably the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA)
receptor that responds to the excitatory transmitter glutamate.
But a multitude of other targets are also possible, including neurons
outside the brainstem, such as the carotid body, which project to the NTS.
"To date it has been assumed that hypoxia-induced augmentations resulted
from 'classical neurophysiological' pathways with afferents from the
carotid bodies causing release of excitatory neurotransmitters",
comments Walter St John (Dartmouth Medical School, Lebanon, NH, USA).

"While such pathways without doubt exist, this new study demonstrates
that the release of SNOs may also be a potent and important mechanism
for augmentations of ventilation." Lipton thinks that this avenue of
research holds great promise: "In the future, it may be possible to
specifically inhibit or augment the effects of specific SNOs on targets
in the brain and elsewhere to affect not only respiration, but also cell
survival after hypoxic or other insults." Indeed, Lipton is working on
"targeted delivery of the NO group to the brain in areas that need control
to avert damage under pathological states".

[Source needed]
Nitric Oxide Found To Control Oxygen Delivery To Tissues; Findings
Could Lead To Therapies For Diseases Of Heart, Lung, Blood. Hemoglobin
as biosensor, nitric oxide as dilator

We have found that when red blood cells are exposed to abnormally low
oxygen for long periods, they become depleted of an essential
substance that they normally release to relax blood vessels in the
lung," McMahon continued. "But not only do blood cells, which of
course perfuse the lung, cause lung problems, we've also found that
inhalation of a new drug designed to correct the blood defect can
reverse this condition."

Stamler's group reported in 1996 that hemoglobin in red blood cells
acts as a finely tuned biosensor, adjusting blood flow to provide
exactly the optimum amount of oxygen to tissues and organs. The blood
cell adjusts blood flow by changing shape and releasing a nitric
oxide-like molecule called s-nitrosothiol (SNO), which the cell
carries through the bloodstream along with oxygen.

When oxygen levels are high, hemoglobin scavenges excess oxygen and
NO, constricting blood vessels and reducing blood flow. When oxygen
levels drop, the NO is released to relax blood vessels and improve
blood flow. The Duke team now finds that with prolonged oxygen
shortage, or hypoxia, blood cells become depleted of SNOs, therefore
losing their ability to relax blood vessels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/26/science/26obse.html

Gray seals, it seems, have a problem. They can’t dive and digest simultaneously. [Protein digestion consumes oxygen]

A study by Carol E. Sparling and colleagues at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland suggests that seals delay digesting their food for many hours after foraging dives. Seals and other marine mammals that dive for food encounter prey only intermittently, and they are underwater when they do so. So they don’t have much opportunity for a leisurely meal — they have to wolf down the food when they can.

But diving and digesting are both energy-intensive activities. So it makes sense that the animals might not always do both at once. The St. Andrews researchers used an experimental setup in which they could present seals with underwater prey at set intervals, and could measure the seals’ metabolic rate at the surface. They found that the metabolic rate was up to seven times higher than baseline during extended surface periods when the seals were motionless. These periods were most often at night, and frequently many hours after the end of feeding dives.

The researchers, whose study is published in Biology Letters, also found that the rate of oxygen consumption during these periods correlated well with the amount of food that the seals had eaten. The researchers say they do not know what happens to the food between when it is eaten and when it is digested. But they say that an interesting avenue of future study would be to see if the seal has some way to delay the release of digestive enzymes and prevent peristalsis, the muscle action that moves food through the digestive tract.
[See also seal shiver study]
 
Trux, I'm very wary of "simulated" diving information and interpretations, although it may be very significant and useful. Sitting with feet or face in cold water is different than an active diving/resting cycle, the body reacts in different ways whether vertical (head up or head down) or horizontal (prone or supine) or slight angle. Changes in pressure affects internal gases and therefore metabolism. Temperature, light, pressure, O2-CO2-N-NO-etc. many variables can affect results, even something odd, like wearing a collar (rubbing on the nape of the neck, stimulating sensitive hair follicles) or smelling a scent can trigger very small reactions.

BD, if you do a DB search on "spleen", you'll find lots of info. I'm not sure if diaphragm contractions alone cause spleen RBC release, or if they are both triggered by another stimulant (acidosis?), or are independent reactions.

Trux, regarding shivering vs contractions, I said 'possibly", and that is what I meant. I don't have enough info. to exclude a direct link, so I still consider that it's possible that shivering is terrestrial, contractions are aquatic (apneic), manifestations from a single stimulus. For example, shivering might be induced at a thermo-receptor site, but that same site may increase level of acid locally (or centrally) similar to a histamine release, which if during apnea could trigger contractions. Diaphragmatic contractions are rhythmic muscular oscillations, so is shivering.

DDeden
 
Wow, lots of scientific info! :)

Visual performance of the vertebrate eye requires large amounts of oxygen, and thus the retina is one of the highest oxygen-consuming tissues of the body.
I wonder if it makes much difference to do static with eyes open or closed?

wet said:
When, however, the two rate processes are matched despite O.sub.2
limitations or low temperature, then an impressive tolerance to
hypoxia, to ypothermia, or to both conditions is achievable. The
situation of simultaneous resistance to lack of O.sub.2 and to low
temperature arises because some of the fundamental mechanisms used by
hypoxia-tolerant animals to protect tissues and organs against hypoxia
are the same as, or at least remarkably similar to,those used by cold-
tolerant organisms such as hibernators to sustain prolonged hypothermia.
That may explain why some animals have good all-round resistance to difficult physiological conditions, such as goldfish, which are tolerant of a wide range of temperatures, hypoxia and a wide range of water conditions.

wet said:
Gray seals, it seems, have a problem. They can’t dive and digest simultaneously. [Protein digestion consumes oxygen]
That's why I don't eat before diving or dry training. It makes a huge difference for me.

About contractions and shivering, I'm not sure about whether they are related in any way, but both can be very strong. When I am cold the shivering can get so bad that it looks like a samba. Fortunately I don't get contractions of the same intensity!
 
Wow, lots of scientific info! :)

Sorry for the overload! It's hard to know what is and isn't connected to respiration.

I wonder if it makes much difference to do static with eyes open or closed?

I don't know, my guess is that it wouldn't be significant, maybe 1/2 a second? For a dolphin, always in water, then yes, because of accumulation. I think most aquatic mammals have proportionately small eyes, compared to body size.

That may explain why some animals have good all-round resistance to difficult physiological conditions, such as goldfish, which are tolerant of a wide range of temperatures, hypoxia and a wide range of water conditions.

They sound like aquatic generalists. In Japan, I saw Koi fish, they swam in the little river just above the outlet to Tokyo Bay. Do goldfish & carp live in freshwater, brackish water and saltwater? I thought they were fresh only.

That's why I don't eat before diving or dry training. It makes a huge difference for me.

Definitely too much food in the gut would be bad for apnea, and apparently protein is worse. Maybe a slice of melon (earlier) would be ok? Not sure.:t

About contractions and shivering, I'm not sure about whether they are related in any way, but both can be very strong. When I am cold the shivering can get so bad that it looks like a samba. Fortunately I don't get contractions of the same intensity!
:) A whole lot of shaking goin' on!
DDeden
 
They sound like aquatic generalists. In Japan, I saw Koi fish, they swam in the little river just above the outlet to Tokyo Bay. Do goldfish & carp live in freshwater, brackish water and saltwater? I thought they were fresh only.
They normally live in freshwater, but they can tolerate brackish water. Some other fish, such as guppies, can live in anything from freshwater to saltwater.

:) A whole lot of shaking goin' on!
rofl rofl rofl
The joys of freediving! Shivering, contractions and worse...

wet said:
Have you done an empty lung or FRC dynamic while measuring heart rate during contractions? (without packing or hyper-ventilating)
I measured my heart rate during contractions, without packing or hyper-ventilating, it wasn't practical to do this during dynamic, so all are dry static:
Passive exhale: 80
Forced exhale: 88
Full lungs: 84
Resting heart rate at the time: 80

Lucia
 
I measured my heart rate during contractions, without packing or hyper-ventilating, it wasn't practical to do this during dynamic, so all are dry static:
Passive exhale: 80 Forced exhale: 88 Full lungs: 84
Resting heart rate at the time: 80
Lucia

What exactly is Breathe up? A few deep breaths? Mild hyperventilation to reduce CO2 and top off on O2? Anything else before dry static?

What do you think would be the result of these: Dry

With no warm-up, no breathe-up, no exercize prior,
laying on side or flat on soft bed or rug

1) passive exhale, body still, HR at 5th contraction:___,
continue 2 more contractions, stop. rest 5 minutes

2) passive exhale, body still until 1st contraction, then dogpaddle
moving limbs "swim" hard, HR at 5th contraction:___,
continue 2 more contractions, stop. rest 5 minutes

3) passive exhale, body still until 1st contraction, then
undulate spine (loach style) in synchrony with each contraction,
(limbs not independently paddling), HR at 5th contraction:___,
continue 2 more contractions, stop. rest 5 minutes

[If you want to try this, safety first:crutch ; and note any preferred changes]

My guess is that 3) would have the lowest HR, although 5 contractions might be too early to tell, maybe the HR at 10th one would give a clearer answer?

DDeden
 
Interesting stuff. :)
BD, if you do a DB search on "spleen", you'll find lots of info. I'm not sure if diaphragm contractions alone cause spleen RBC release, or if they are both triggered by another stimulant (acidosis?), or are independent reactions.
If I remember correct, someone posted about a research done on splenic contractions already. A few poeple doing static apnea with spleen size being measured by ultrasound.
I think the conclusion was that the spleen starts to contract almost as soon as apnea starts, which shows that contractions is not the mechanism or the trigger. As for the mechanism of spleen contraction (not stated in that post), I think narrowing of blood vessels towards the spleen might be the cause. I asked a surgeon once and he said that clamping the artery leading to the spleen drains it. Or atleast that's what I remember I understood. :)
Also, I think there are no muscles on the spleen, so that rules out another option.

EDIT: found a post stating the name of the article, maybe you guys could quote some of it, I don't have access at the moment. http://forums.deeperblue.net/freedi...highlight=spleen+static+ultrasound#post507961
Regarding the hypothesis, it includes both the "well known facts" and the hypercapneic supplemental pump, where O2, CO2 and electrolytes are efficiently distributed during bradycardia, at the time when the heart rate is slow. If the diaphragmatic contractions were merely breath muscle activation, why then would we have them while underwater, since we can't breathe there? These contractions cost both energy and O2, surely there must be a physiological benefit.

It seems more parsimonious to me to view them not as reflex breathing attempts but rather as biochemical distribution pumping, stimulated by the presence of CO2 or carbonic acid at certain chemoreceptors.
As for your theory about contractions acting as a pump, I think it is partially true but your theory might have took it beyond what I would consider parsimonious by calling it a biochemical distribution pump. :)
In many cases contractions is accopmanied by bradycardia (atleast this is the case for me and a few other freedivers), which indeed might suggest that it might act as a pump compensating for the slowing of another pump. From how I see it, except acting as a breathing reflex, by trying to expell air against resistance contractions increase cerebral blood pressure, which increase ppO2 in the brain and keeps you conscious udner lower saO2.
I think it gives no true advantage to undergo bradycardia to a level that doesn't suffice for this biochemical distribution you claim to happen as I tend to think that the heart is the right muscle for the job and not the diaphragm/intercostals. Not that it can't be true as the heart might be limited by some other factors which calls for the diaphragm to kick in, but I wouldn't consider that theory parsimonious. :)
Exhaling underwater makes no survival sense, but pushing against resistance does, by keeping you conscious.

Another thing that should be taken into account is sub residual volume dives. Usually contractions (in a trained diver) are supressed in such conditions. Seb Murat's theory about FRC diving suggests that it promotes O2 conservation via maximizing the DR, so in that case the lack of cerebral hypertension is compensated for, but this biochemical distribution need isn't as heartrate will probably be even lower and there are no contractions (lower HR and higher DR calls for slower metabolism, but that also happens in a normal dive).

By the way, some freedivers don't have contractions and still get into pretty good performances, Stephan Mifsud doing 8:27 (I think) static with no contractions is one example. Makes me wonder if there's a limit to their potential or if there is some other mechanism compensating or if contractions are even necessary. :)
 
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