I think that everyone knows what hyperventilation is and the risk associated with it. Instead of concentrating on breathing concentrate on doing all the right things. You only inhibit your growth as a diver by manipulating your natural breathing cycle. I did the same when I started diving. But beleive me it is way better and and you will improve faster once you get the fact that the way to improve has nothing to do with hyperventilation.
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Hyperventilation vs Purge breath?
- Thread starterbengreen
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Connor - Been diving for a year and a half, I am 44 170# and spearfish in California 30 - 50 ft. My bottom time is usually around 1:30 comfortably. I completed the PFI lvl 2 course this summer and my max static was 5 mins and I reached 90'. Problem is that the stuff they teach adds up to a pretty big dose of HV, so I realized I need to start from scratch and relearn the right and safer way. Thank you. ..Ben
Bengreen, you are in a good place and time, enjoy.
Producing a strong, early DR is a complex subject and needs some background:
Figuring out exactly what is included in DR and how to influence it is poorly known and being explored as we speak. The following is my take. Lots of room to be wrong. I'm no expert, just been doing it a long time and am very interested in the science and practice. Take it for what its worth.
DR consists of a lot if things (and I'm pretty sure we don't know what all of them are or how they work). In total, it is the body's response to not breathing. Rising c02 level in the blood kicks off DR. Blood shift is the most obvious and possibly the most important component. Blood is shifted away from th skeletal muscles and into the chest cavity(mostly lung blood vessels), saving its 02 and c02 storage capacity for use by the brain and heart. Carotid arteries expand to allow greater blood flow to the brain. Blood pressure rises to facilitate transfer of 02 from the blood to the brain. Decreased circulation leads to lower heart rate, also saving energy and 02. But blood shift isn't all. The body secretes buffers that help it handle the co2(and make you able to handle higher c02 levels). Metabolism changes to utilize less o2. The spleen expels its stored blood into the circulatory system. Probably lots more. Exactly how all this works is not well known.
Blood shift and the many of the advantages of splenic contraction are strongest with the first breath hold. If you want to do a max dynamic, the no-warm-up approach appears to be the best. Just jump in the pool and go for it. The down side is a horrible level of discomfort. Not for me, plus it doesn't work with serial diving (spearfishing).
For serial diving, the goal becomes the longest possible safe, comfortable dive, a different thing from the above, and DR is key to this. And that is where managing your DR becomes really interesting. The fascinating thing is, its a balance of a whole bunch of factors, that change all the time and that balance is unique to each diver. You have to figure out what works for you. Here are some of the factors.
Blood shift: relaxation promotes it. Low lung volume (less than full inhale) promotes it, especially if combined with depth. Exercise delays and/or reduces it. All these factors have much more effect when they happen early in the dive. The take home is learn maximum relaxation and get your surface dive and finning technique to maximum efficiency and minimal effort. Get you weighting set so you expend the minimum energy, especially early in the dive. Don't take a full breath. That is buoyancy that you have to fight (exercise) going down and more weight you have to wear(exercise coming up). The relaxation portion of all this takes a lot of practice. Learn to totally relax every muscle you are not actively using. If you meditate, take notice of how it feels and try to replicate that feeling during your surface interval and while diving. I get there(not often) using a minimal breathing strategy, more below. For several reasons, the closer you can come to making the first minute of so of the dive a static(little or no exercise), the stronger and earlier your DR. This point cannot be emphasised enough. Early is when it really counts. Once DR kicks in hard, it tends to stay that way until you surface and start breathing again.
Blood shift is also cumulative, especially if you are diving at less that full lung inflation. For FRC divers this seems to be a major factor, improving dive times and depth ability as the day goes on.
Co2 blood concentration: Low co2 from HV means the body doesn't know it needs to conserve o2 until well into the dive. The body is burning o2 like crazy, no conservation. BO risk. Higher co2 blood concentration promotes early blood shift. This one is tricky. Too high and you get a very safe, but short and uncomfortable dive. To little and you risk running out of 02 before surfacing. Just right and DR kicks in before it gets noticeably uncomfortable and you get max safe, comfortable dive. This is the sweet spot you should be aiming for. It takes practice and experimentation.
I get there by minimal breathing during my surface interval. My pattern is come up, recovery breathing for 30 seconds to a minute, forget my breathing for a minute or so(works best if you train yourself to diaphragm breath automatically), then focus on relaxing and breathing as shallow and relaxed as possible, consistent with no urge to breath, for a minute or so. If it all works right, I get into an near meditative state. A couple of diaphragm only purge breaths and go. Perfection is getting a fleeting urge to breath in about 30 seconds and then I know I'm in for a loong comfortable dive. You will be different from this, but it gives an idea of what to shot for.
Gear: Anything that promotes efficiency. Soft fins, as small a volume mask as reasonable, smoothskin out wetsuit. In my experience, this is the least of the important areas.
Temperature: I dive in warm water, so somebody else should comment here. In general, you will get your best DR when slightly cold, facial exposure is supposed to help a lot.
Practice: DR has a strong genetic component, but it is also trainable. Dive a lot and your body will go into DR easier and faster. Blood buffers become stronger and more effective, increasing tolerance to high c02. Note: if you are doing much HV, increasing your co2 tolerance is not a good thing. Just generally, diving and practicing more seems to make you better able to relax and otherwise increasing co2 tolerance. Pool and dry practice can help. I do a lot of exhale negatives dry. Helps a little. Works much better wet with a little bit of depth- be sure to have a good buddy and be careful. Exhales are fundamentally dangerous and can really hurt you.
As an example: for several years, I had access to a 4 meter deep end and a good buddy. We did a lot of exhale statics in the deep end and static/dynamic training. My times got up to 4 minutes including a 50 yard swim. Open water times were averaging 1;55, with an occasional 2:15-2:25. I've lost that access and buddy and now my times are back down around 1:30-1:45, even when I'm diving a lot. .
You might consider FRC diving. I dive about ½ lung and find it very effective, much longer dive times than full lung. Everything about FRC diving is designed to maximize early DR and minimize energy expenditure during the dive especially early in the dive.. I call it the ultimate lazy man's way to dive. The really nice thing about it is you can exercise pretty hard after DR sets in strong, fighting a fish, etc and still maintain your DR If interested, it needs some study. See the threads below and search for others. There are some good ones.
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/exhale-diving-for-the-average-diver.78598/
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/blood-shift-and-exhale-frc-diving-musings.89810/
Caveat: You are diving in cold water with lots of wetsuit, very different form me. The principals above still apply, but application might be very different
Producing a strong, early DR is a complex subject and needs some background:
Figuring out exactly what is included in DR and how to influence it is poorly known and being explored as we speak. The following is my take. Lots of room to be wrong. I'm no expert, just been doing it a long time and am very interested in the science and practice. Take it for what its worth.
DR consists of a lot if things (and I'm pretty sure we don't know what all of them are or how they work). In total, it is the body's response to not breathing. Rising c02 level in the blood kicks off DR. Blood shift is the most obvious and possibly the most important component. Blood is shifted away from th skeletal muscles and into the chest cavity(mostly lung blood vessels), saving its 02 and c02 storage capacity for use by the brain and heart. Carotid arteries expand to allow greater blood flow to the brain. Blood pressure rises to facilitate transfer of 02 from the blood to the brain. Decreased circulation leads to lower heart rate, also saving energy and 02. But blood shift isn't all. The body secretes buffers that help it handle the co2(and make you able to handle higher c02 levels). Metabolism changes to utilize less o2. The spleen expels its stored blood into the circulatory system. Probably lots more. Exactly how all this works is not well known.
Blood shift and the many of the advantages of splenic contraction are strongest with the first breath hold. If you want to do a max dynamic, the no-warm-up approach appears to be the best. Just jump in the pool and go for it. The down side is a horrible level of discomfort. Not for me, plus it doesn't work with serial diving (spearfishing).
For serial diving, the goal becomes the longest possible safe, comfortable dive, a different thing from the above, and DR is key to this. And that is where managing your DR becomes really interesting. The fascinating thing is, its a balance of a whole bunch of factors, that change all the time and that balance is unique to each diver. You have to figure out what works for you. Here are some of the factors.
Blood shift: relaxation promotes it. Low lung volume (less than full inhale) promotes it, especially if combined with depth. Exercise delays and/or reduces it. All these factors have much more effect when they happen early in the dive. The take home is learn maximum relaxation and get your surface dive and finning technique to maximum efficiency and minimal effort. Get you weighting set so you expend the minimum energy, especially early in the dive. Don't take a full breath. That is buoyancy that you have to fight (exercise) going down and more weight you have to wear(exercise coming up). The relaxation portion of all this takes a lot of practice. Learn to totally relax every muscle you are not actively using. If you meditate, take notice of how it feels and try to replicate that feeling during your surface interval and while diving. I get there(not often) using a minimal breathing strategy, more below. For several reasons, the closer you can come to making the first minute of so of the dive a static(little or no exercise), the stronger and earlier your DR. This point cannot be emphasised enough. Early is when it really counts. Once DR kicks in hard, it tends to stay that way until you surface and start breathing again.
Blood shift is also cumulative, especially if you are diving at less that full lung inflation. For FRC divers this seems to be a major factor, improving dive times and depth ability as the day goes on.
Co2 blood concentration: Low co2 from HV means the body doesn't know it needs to conserve o2 until well into the dive. The body is burning o2 like crazy, no conservation. BO risk. Higher co2 blood concentration promotes early blood shift. This one is tricky. Too high and you get a very safe, but short and uncomfortable dive. To little and you risk running out of 02 before surfacing. Just right and DR kicks in before it gets noticeably uncomfortable and you get max safe, comfortable dive. This is the sweet spot you should be aiming for. It takes practice and experimentation.
I get there by minimal breathing during my surface interval. My pattern is come up, recovery breathing for 30 seconds to a minute, forget my breathing for a minute or so(works best if you train yourself to diaphragm breath automatically), then focus on relaxing and breathing as shallow and relaxed as possible, consistent with no urge to breath, for a minute or so. If it all works right, I get into an near meditative state. A couple of diaphragm only purge breaths and go. Perfection is getting a fleeting urge to breath in about 30 seconds and then I know I'm in for a loong comfortable dive. You will be different from this, but it gives an idea of what to shot for.
Gear: Anything that promotes efficiency. Soft fins, as small a volume mask as reasonable, smoothskin out wetsuit. In my experience, this is the least of the important areas.
Temperature: I dive in warm water, so somebody else should comment here. In general, you will get your best DR when slightly cold, facial exposure is supposed to help a lot.
Practice: DR has a strong genetic component, but it is also trainable. Dive a lot and your body will go into DR easier and faster. Blood buffers become stronger and more effective, increasing tolerance to high c02. Note: if you are doing much HV, increasing your co2 tolerance is not a good thing. Just generally, diving and practicing more seems to make you better able to relax and otherwise increasing co2 tolerance. Pool and dry practice can help. I do a lot of exhale negatives dry. Helps a little. Works much better wet with a little bit of depth- be sure to have a good buddy and be careful. Exhales are fundamentally dangerous and can really hurt you.
As an example: for several years, I had access to a 4 meter deep end and a good buddy. We did a lot of exhale statics in the deep end and static/dynamic training. My times got up to 4 minutes including a 50 yard swim. Open water times were averaging 1;55, with an occasional 2:15-2:25. I've lost that access and buddy and now my times are back down around 1:30-1:45, even when I'm diving a lot. .
You might consider FRC diving. I dive about ½ lung and find it very effective, much longer dive times than full lung. Everything about FRC diving is designed to maximize early DR and minimize energy expenditure during the dive especially early in the dive.. I call it the ultimate lazy man's way to dive. The really nice thing about it is you can exercise pretty hard after DR sets in strong, fighting a fish, etc and still maintain your DR If interested, it needs some study. See the threads below and search for others. There are some good ones.
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/exhale-diving-for-the-average-diver.78598/
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/blood-shift-and-exhale-frc-diving-musings.89810/
Caveat: You are diving in cold water with lots of wetsuit, very different form me. The principals above still apply, but application might be very different
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