Hypothermia Question

[jsharbel71]

Howdy folks it has been a long time since I was here but I have been away from freediving for a while now and I am ready to get back into it. I am still smoking and still trying to quit but I surprised myself with a 4:00 breath hold just floating on the surface of my girlfriend's pool the other day. It is too late in the season for me to start back and I am still recovering from a motorcycle accident. Anyway.........:wave- I'm a little ADD and I am trying to improve my concentration and Freediving always helps.

Question: At what temperature does hypothermia start to occur. I know that there are so many variables to this but I am doing some basic 2:30 breath holds on the bottom of the pool at 7ft. WOW!!! Great huh! The water is about 66 degrees and I am only wearing shorts. The temperature outside is usually 50f low and 70f high.

When should I start putting on my 3 mil and hood? Any suggestions?
J.

 

[efattah]

Shivering is the key. Do you shiver, before, during or after the session? If not, you should be fine.

 

[jsharbel71]

Yesterday I went out and put on my 5mil but I could not even remotely sink to the bottom of the pool. I went back to just shorts but I did wear a hood. The water was 66f and the air temperature was about 57f ( 18C, and 14C).

I had fun and did some 2:30-3:30 apneas on the bottom of the pool. I am scared to try and do any more as I can usually pull of 4 minutes or more but I am alone. So I mostly swam around with my fins to work my injured leg and gave myself a really good workout.

When I got out after about 2, 2 1/2 hours I was fine. I did shiver just a tiny bit when I got inside. The only thing odd was that my temperature dropped down to 95F (35C) and even after a long hot shower, hot tea, and about two hours of sitting in bed talking with my girl my temperature had only gone back up to 97F (36.4C).

I just do not want to go into hypothermia.

Thanks for the info,
J.

 

[Jee]

Hi,

why do you do static at the bottom of the pool? This is not a good parctice. It is not safe, and it is not needed for doing a static excersize.

I suppose there is somebody looking at you, watching your static. There should be a buddy! If doing at the depth, how would he/she recognize, that you have a problem (I mean you BOd)? The safety signs are also more problematic to perform at the depth.

So I suggest you to practice static at the side of the pool, at the surface. Then you could wear the 5 mm suit. Your dropped temperature is not good, I think.

If you want to practice at the bottom, you should take a weight belt, but you and your buddy should be very careful with this depth static. I suggest you not to do this kind of static.

Jee

 

[Whopperhead]

Jee has good points- Also, while doing static, you want to be as comfortable as possible. A wetsuit will keep you warm. Shivering also uses up valuable O2.

Never do these solo - at least while in the water. Be safe.

 

[sofabike]

It is depend on your body fat level and surly dive skins thikness.
I am skeeny school nickname "skeleton" dive skins 7mm
Water temperature in Vortex Springs constant year-round +21C*
If I stay in a water without work-out-swim I get cold after 45min.
If one hour it comes to hypotermia

So I may sumirise:
0. Water tempereture
1.body fat
2.dive-skins
3.phisical-work-out

 

[jsharbel71]

Hi,

why do you do static at the bottom of the pool? This is not a good parctice. It is not safe, and it is not needed for doing a static excersize.

If you want to practice at the bottom, you should take a weight belt, but you and your buddy should be very careful with this depth static. I suggest you not to do this kind of static.

Jee

Thank you first of all for the reply. Thank all of you.
I have never been given a good reason not to do statics at depth. My preferred depth is actually at about 10-12 meters.
I find it very, very comfortable doing statics at that depth. When I return to the surface from a good 3-4 min. static at 10 meters or so (usually at the end of the day of diving) I experience a peaceful tranquility that lasts for the rest of the day.
I even have found that if I do not finish my day with these depth statics that although I have enjoyed diving I do not go home feeling the same. Still a great day!!

But the statics at depth- ahhh! Zen like. Better than any drug. It wipes away all the stress from my whole week.

So I am doing them on the bottom of the pool so I can lay back and look at the sky or just lay on the bottom.

It is unfortuneate that my freediving friends are far away now in Turkey and one has no transportation. I started freediving alone for my first few years. I have missed going diving now for two years and my life has suffered as it is my meditation.

So, knowing the risks very well, knowing how dangerous it is, I still practice apnea alone. I have no other choice.

Thank you all once again for your information.
J.

p.s. I am 260 lbs and 6ft. I put on a 5 mil wet suit and a weightbelt with 12-14 lbs and could not even swim to the bottom of the pool without popping back to the surface!

 

[jsharbel71]

Jee has good points- Also, while doing static, you want to be as comfortable as possible. A wetsuit will keep you warm. Shivering also uses up valuable O2.

Never do these solo - at least while in the water. Be safe.

The wetsuit is nice for just floating on the surface and keeps me very warm!!!

The whole reason I wrote the thread is that I am doing apnea alone as it is which is dangerous and I am staying under my limits as far as time- I know famous last words.

I seem to be able to turn off the whole shivering thing. I have no idea how. My Anatomy and Physiology teacher ( I am in school) thinks I am some kind of freak of nature or liar. I have had no problems with shivering until I get out of the water and then I just kinda turn it off. I still have good muscle control and do not show any other signs except my toes get cold.
No, I am not going past the shivering stage of hypothermia either.
I have had hypothermia once when backpacking- for some reason I threw off my sleeping bag in the night and woke up in the morning with my friends stuffing me with sleeping bags and such. It was horrible.

I am just worried about the water as I know it can be quick. But I am staying under my limits with the apnea and I go inside when it gets really cold.
Come winter I want to wear my wetsuit and just swim and am wondering if I can adapt to the cold.

Another long rant,
J.

 

[Haydn]

Hypothermia will not catch you quickly. You will be dead long before you ever get the chance to catch hypothermia. So stop doing statics alone, especially at the bottom of the pool. If you get into trouble, you wont give yourself a chance to get away with it. If you do statics alone, make sure you are in shallow water and once you start the struggle phase, you can at least stand up and finish the rest half in and half leaning over the side. Then when you lose conciousness, at least you might get a breath in, before your head goes under.

As far as hypothermia is concerned, if you do survive long enough to get close to being dangerously cold. At these temperatures you will only get cold, but probably not dangerously cold, for a couple hours of breath holding. By then, you will have got out anyway.

The cold should be the least of your worries.

 

[salibandy]

Hypothermia will not catch you quickly. You will be dead long before you ever get the chance to catch hypothermia. So stop doing statics alone, especially at the bottom of the pool. If you get into trouble, you wont give yourself a chance to get away with it. If you do statics alone, make sure you are in shallow water and once you start the struggle phase, you can at least stand up and finish the rest half in and half leaning over the side. Then when you lose conciousness, at least you might get a breath in, before your head goes under.

As far as hypothermia is concerned, if you do survive long enough to get close to being dangerously cold. At these temperatures you will only get cold, but probably not dangerously cold, for a couple hours of breath holding. By then, you will have got out anyway.

The cold should be the least of your worries.

I concur with Haydn. However, I strongly advise against doing it alone, at all. Screw up once, and that's it.

And it's not a matter of staying below your limits. I know divers who have BOed way below their limits for no apparent reason. They weren't fatigued, and doing only statics.

 

[trux]

I have never been given a good reason not to do statics at depth.

Is keeping your life a reason good enough for you, or your family or friends? I have to second others - doing statics in water alone is hazardous enough, but it is even much more dangerous when doing in depth. While on surface, with some luck, you may survive a brief blackout or samba (loss of motor control), when training in depth, there is very little chance you come out alive. And when you are weighted to be negatively buoyant in depth, or doing exhale breath-holds, then you have no chance at all.

It is far easier to end up with a samba or blackout than you can imagine. There are too many factors playing a role (ventilation, fatigue, blood acidity, diet, drugs, physical and psychical state, temperature, focus on target time, distraction,...). We, who train in clubs, or do freediving since a while, use to see blackouts and sambas frequently. While it is impressive, it is usually not such a big deal when the proper safety is in place, but it is usually fatal when you are alone.

And there is one more additional risk factor at depth apnea - the depressurizing effect of surfacing, well known as Shallow Water Blackout. The change of pressures amplifies the progressing hypoxemia, so although you may still feel fine when aborting your statics and starting to ascend, sudden blackout may surprise you without any warning. You wouldn't be the first victim. There are estimates of hundreds of SWB victims each year. And we hear about freedivers or wannabe freedivers dying when training static at pool bottoms rather regularly here on DB too. On of such threads is for example here: http://forums.deeperblue.com/safety/68814-bad-news-sweden.html - that guy was able of pulling 7 minutes breath-holds, and like you he felt sure of himself enough to do statics at pool's bottom. Although the life guard was aware of him training there, before he realized it takes longer than usually, it was too late. That's why when we train statics, we keep our buddies under uninterrupted surveillance, tapping them each couple of seconds, and when not getting any response, pulling them out immediately.

 

[Jee]

I know, what it's like not to have a buddy. I was in a situation like that, and then I trained only dynamic - and not veen close to my PB. I would say: almost no struggle at all, very easy.So I didn't swam long ones, just swam several times. And of course you can swim on the surface.

I see, that you like static at the depth, and I can understand it. Just this is not safe like this.

Even if we cannot convince you, the least you have to do is to tell the pool guard to watch you - but as you could read in trunx' post, it is still not enough.

The solution: you have to find a buddy (or more). And then it's a club. And much safer, and more fun.

 

[azapa]

trux is right re-safety. Head warnings.

Cold is good though for your dive reflex. I find my peak apneas are just a tad short of being very cold. (shivering maybe). Your water temp of 50 to 60F is ideal for a strong dive response. DR comes in so strong at this point that my comfort zone for a given dive increases by 50 to 75%

 

[Haydn]

During the Hawaii Pacific Cup in 2002, I was doing my dynamic and actually would have won the comp, but for an LMC at 156m. The thing is at the 150m turn (a rare thing in those days), I felt as if I had a world record in my sights and I should take that one chance having a great dive. The trouble was, that there was a meter wide barrier at the turn which you had to swim under at a depth of about 4 feet, in order to turn. The turns were therefore done at about 6 feet. Having felt that good at the turn, I decided to push off the wall and get closer to the surface in preparation to abort, rather than swim along the bottom of the pool. The power of the turn and the raise to the surface and suddenly the swim was over. In an instant....LMC and I believe brought on because of the rapid ascent (remember this was a dynamic, and I guess that makes it rather unusual) bordering on shallow water blackout. I had no warning whatever, just enough awareness that in one second I thought I had 10 kicks left and the next second I knew I had to stop immediatly. Any warning was masked by the feeling of well being. It was only my third maximum effort for a dynamic, so I can argue that I was too inexperienced to be aware of how things really were. Experience doesnt matter, if I was alone I would be dead, along with about 50% of all other freedivers worldwide. We mustnt dive alone. Eventhough we all do it sometimes.

 

[jsharbel71]

Just to quickly clarify a few things. When I do depth statics....or I should say.....when I have done depth statics in the past at 10m I was NEVER alone. My freediving parnters and I always enjoyed depth statics at 10m and 20m.

As I have said I do not want to end up a statistic. I tried staring my own club but even the most adventerous scuba divers where we did our freediving thought we were crazy.

My first few years of freediving were spent totally alone and I didn't know any better at that time.

I did enjoy about 2 good years where I had two freediving partners and a safety diver and it was great. I never went alone. I was able to max out on my constant weight, statics, depth statics, etc. and I did it safely. I have had some sambas, LMC, and I have had BO twice.

I am not new to freediving but I have not done it in 2 years now because I have not had a buddy.

I know what I am doing in the pool is dangerous and I understand your points of view and 7ft isn't the same as 30-35 anyway so I have stopped doing it on the bottom of the pool and it is getting cold anyway so my girlfriend will not come and watch me.

Ask yourself what you would do if your clubs went away and all of your freediving partners went away?????

Well I still have not been freediving and the quarry we used to dive in is about 15min away but I know 10m would turn into 20m which would turn into 30m just like in the old days before I knew about Deeper Blue, AIDA, freediving fins, shallow water blackout, etc.

And yes I can die in a pool just as easily in a quarry.

I just got sick of watching freediving videos and looking at pictures and this year having had a motorcycle accident,etc.

I WANT TO FREEDIVE!!!!!! I AM A FREEDIVING JUNKY!!!!

I have not been back into the pool except just to swim but after two years of not diving I have grown tired and would really like to find some other freedivers but there are not any here!!!

I do not condone freediving alone or even playing around in a pool alone and I have obviously suffered from a lack of judgement due to not having been freediving in so long.

So thank you for the harsh words of warning and do not worry as I have started doing some breathing exercises on dry land but I wish I could find someone to freedive with.:vangry

 

[trux]

Try dropping a few fliers at local swimming pools, or sending emails to diverse local water related clubs (swimming, scuba, water polo, UW rugby/hockey, synchronized swimming, ...) and sport departments of universities. I am sure you will find more than enough people interested in freediving to start a real club. Or even contact the management of some pools, or the county/city government - they may be more than willing to assist you. They usually support any new aquatic sport clubs, because there is then better guarantee of doing it safely under surveillance and with proper safety training, which they certainly prefer than if people are dying alone in swimming pools, the sea or lakes.

 

[trux]

PS: also try looking up the members at APNEA.cz - there are already some registered freedivers from Alabama, so you may register too and trying to contact them. Perhaps some of them could meet with you at least time to time for some diving. Among those who did not complete the registration (mostly becaise they did not pass the theory test), there is even one (robotman) in Fairlfield at Birmingham, Al.

usa @ APNEA.cz